My wife says I'm totally consumed by this stuff, even though she's already planning for our (mine she doesn't hunt) leopard hunt. Thanks to good advice from Allen, John S and others, I believe I've come up with a good load combo for the cat, a 210 Nosler Partition, using RL-19 (73gr) Fed 215 primers and Winchester brass.

The attached target was at 100 yards with a lowly Leupold 1.5X5X20 with an illuminated German # 4 reticle, The dot covers exactly one MOA, making precise targeting difficult, There are four holes there, one is a 250Gr Hornady that just happens to shoot to the same POI. Not bad for an old, wood stocked custom Pre-64. jorge

Very nice groups Jorge, would the 225 gr woodleigh protected point make a good African bullet for lepord and other plains game I am betting it would.

I am going to load some of them up in my .338 and hopefully get to try them on pigs etc. nothing quite as exotic as lepord.

Have fun !!

I'm sure that load will work great if you get a shot. I've used basically the same load with great results. (but not on leopard) How does your scope perform at twilight?

Jorge,

I think minute-of-rosette is sufficient. I hope you make your appointment with Spots.

George

That looks good. Mine will do that with the 250 Nosler. By the way it opened on a baboon two weeks ago, I would not hesitate to use it on leopard also. Good luck with Spots. Where are you hunting and when.
Doug

Mike: So far, the scope performs well--as long as I keep the power on 4X or lower. To be honest, what I really wanted was a Swaro 1.75X6X42 Illuminated reticle, but not for 1600 bucks. I also thought about the 2.5X10X50 Leupold also with an ill reticle, but I just won't put one of those ridiculous 50mm objectives on one of my rifles. Besides shots are 60 yards or less and 4X is plenty. Doug, I'll be hunting with John Sharp in Zim, tentatively sched for 07. jorge

quote:

Very nice groups Jorge, would the 225 gr woodleigh protected point make a good African bullet for lepord and other plains game I am betting it would

I would bet it won't! I shot a leopard with a 250gr woodleigh PSP and the bullet came apart in the leopard! I highly recommend quality bullets like Nosler partitions, North forks, A frames etc. Leopards are not that big and at 81yds the bullet should not have fragmented. I also shot a zebra and Sable with the same load and there wasn't much left of those bullets either.Do what you want but I have actually used these bullets and they are not premium bullets and should be considered in the same class as power points, core loks, sierra, hornady, and speer hot cores. Good for deer/caribou sized critters but not over 400lbs or tough/dangerous game.

Jorge, great shooting, and your target speaks for itself! If you have a good, well-made rifle in 338 Win. Mag., such as yours, and you select your premium-bullet hunting load carefully, accuracy and terminal performance will not disappoint.

Your safari rifle is ready, I'd say !

AD

Thanks, folks for the replies. Allen, I just finished watching (again) your leopard kill, good training! BTW, did youever get that lion there? jorge

Jorge, yes, in fact we did get the lion we were originally hunting!

After we had that leopard in the salt, we completely cleaned up that bait site and clear out of the area for a few days. Then we went out, shot another buffalo, went back to that same site, chained the bait to that same tree, covered it with thornbrush, and left it for a couple of days.

We went back early one morning, and this big lion was on the bait. He spotted us, ran fifty yards, stopped and looked back (fatal mistake!), and I shot him through the shoulders with my 300 Win. Mag. with 180 Fail-Safes -- the same rifle and load I used on the leopard. At the shot, he performed this big backward somersault and crashed in a little depression, and that was that! We circled wide of him with the rifles shouldered and the safeties off, but he was done for. It all happened so fast that the cameraman didn't get all of it on film, and that is a regretable, because that lion kill was dramatic and decisive.

So I shot that leopard, plus a huge old trophy lion not forty yards apart, and off of the same baitsite! I have them both lifesize-mounted and right beside each other, here at home, which is fitting.........

AD

Great story Allen. I've been meaning to ask you the outcome for years and I always keep forgetting. You know, your lion kill with that 300 is another data point for my belief that when it comes to lions, "speed " does kill! jorge

jorge-
shhhh...you're gonna let the "inside" info out if you keep this up ! Nobody in their right mind would shoot even a zebra with a 300, let alone simba...everyone knows it takes at least a 469 Loudenboomer.

BTW, nice shooting with that 338, looks like you're good to go.

Yeah, especially in the other video where THE most dramatic kill I saw on a lion was with another 30 cal Weatherby! jorge

jorge,

Excellent. Nothing like a multi-shot, one ragged hole group to inspire confidence.

Looks like a 200 yard zero. Same one I use for my .338 and my .375. But for leopard, using my .375, I did have to adjust it.

We measured the distance from the blind to the bait with a Leica laser rangefinder. It was 40 yards on the nose.

Then I re-zeroed my .375 from a 200 yard POI to 40. That evening, it was hold on the shoulder, bang and dead.

The next day, I did, however, almost forget to re-zero my rifle back to a 200 yard POI!

I'd wish you luck on your cat, but with that kind of shooting, as long as he shows up, you won't need any!

Jorge

Come on now, you're bragging.

Good shooting with an accurate load.

MR: thanks for your input. You are correct that it's a 200 yard zero (actually about 215). The leopard blind will probably be between 50-60 yds and at that distance, it hits about the same. That POI is the same in just about all of my rifles and it's engrained on my mind as I always compensate, but we'll see. NitroX: bet your ass I'm bragging, but as I've been accused, yes I have an ego problem to go along with the fact that I can't get past those inaccurate Model 70s! jorge

Jorge, are you sure that target was produced by a Model 70 with a wood stock? Based on what I've heard, only a "benchrest-accurate", blueprinted and customized Remington 700 in a wildcat caliber with a tight-neck chamber and "deep-throat", plus a 6.5-20x "tactical" scope of some sort firing Sierra MKs is capable of that sort of accuracy !?

AD

Allen, funny!!

Let's not forget the 2 pound bipod and the MUZZLE BREAK

Yeah, Allen and don't forget the terrible "lock time" of the Model 70's trigger too! jorge

Okay, a question from the haven't shot one group.

After watching the Leopard video from the Col.
why would you sight it in for a 100, when the shooting is normally done at it seems about 50 and under?

Good question. Actually I have it sighted in for 200 plus and a lot of PHs will make you sight the rifle in just as you say, but I know where it hits at fifty (about 1" high) and since I'll be using the rifle for other game, I know where to aim at ranges from 10 to 300 plus yards. make sense? jorge

Yep makes sense to me.

Jorge. This guy (Road Warrior)is waiting for you.If anybody deserves him its you. Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder:

quote:

Very nice groups Jorge, would the 225 gr woodleigh protected point make a good African bullet for lepord and other plains game I am betting it would

I would bet it won't! I shot a leopard with a 250gr woodleigh PSP and the bullet came apart in the leopard! I highly recommend quality bullets like Nosler partitions, North forks, A frames etc. Leopards are not that big and at 81yds the bullet should not have fragmented. I also shot a zebra and Sable with the same load and there wasn't much left of those bullets either.Do what you want but I have actually used these bullets and they are not premium bullets and should be considered in the same class as power points, core loks, sierra, hornady, and speer hot cores. Good for deer/caribou sized critters but not over 400lbs or tough/dangerous game.

Thanks for that...............suprises me really, well I suppose I have no fear of it not opening up on feral pigs.

Jorge,

I am a slow learner I tuess because it took me three hunts to kill a leopard. The full mount just arrived this week by the way.

I think a lot of rifles are good for leopard, 7X57 being the minimum for Zim the last time I looked. I think the scope is the critical item.

I like a low power variable with at least 32 to 36 mm objective and 40 to 42 mm is mo' bettah. I agree that you do not need a 50 mm objective if your PH is using artificial light.

I shot mine at 40 yards with a .375 H&H (that is what I had) with the Trijicon AccuPoint 3-9X40 set on 6X.

jim

quote:

HunterJim

HunterJim..Did you used a red light or white light
on your leopard?

AKA,

Out of curiousity, is that a front or rear pad in the picture? How long do you estimate it to be?

Regards,

Pete

Jim: I also would have preferred a bigger objective, but the way I figure it, with the scope set at 4X, that gives me 5mm exit (20mm objective) pupil which is about as much as my 51 year old eyes can dilate to. I also communicated with John Barnsness and he indicated the low power Leupold would do fine. I've been doing quite a bit of testing right at dark, and it seems to be working ok, especailly with the ill ret set at about the next to the lowest setting.

Steve, that is one hell of a paw print! I only hope he survives another 2 years until I can get there. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by PC:

quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder:

quote:

Very nice groups Jorge, would the 225 gr woodleigh protected point make a good African bullet for lepord and other plains game I am betting it would

I would bet it won't! I shot a leopard with a 250gr woodleigh PSP and the bullet came apart in the leopard! I highly recommend quality bullets like Nosler partitions, North forks, A frames etc. Leopards are not that big and at 81yds the bullet should not have fragmented. I also shot a zebra and Sable with the same load and there wasn't much left of those bullets either.Do what you want but I have actually used these bullets and they are not premium bullets and should be considered in the same class as power points, core loks, sierra, hornady, and speer hot cores. Good for deer/caribou sized critters but not over 400lbs or tough/dangerous game.

Thanks for that...............suprises me really, well I suppose I have no fear of it not opening up on feral pigs.

Surprises me immensely as well.

I wonder what speed they were being driven out.

Those leopards, sable, zebra etc must have been tougher than the eland, kudu, wildebeest, zebra, cape buffalo, water buffalo, etc etc that I have shot with Woodleighs. Probably over 22 large and over 100 medium game sized animals with weldcores.

quote:

Surprises me immensely as well.

I wonder what speed they were being driven out.

Those leopards, sable, zebra etc must have been tougher than the eland, kudu, wildebeest, zebra, cape buffalo, water buffalo, etc etc that I have shot with Woodleighs. Probably over 22 large and over 100 medium game sized animals with weldcores

The 338 Winchester mag 250 gr wooleigh PSP loads chroned just shy of 2700fps. Probably too fast for this soft bullet. It seems that your experience may be with a heavier, larger cal bullet going at less than 2400fps.As I stated, with well over two hundred various big game animals taken over my 50yrs of hunting...this is no bullet for larger/dangerous animals. I'll stick with the preium bullets for those jobs.I am not referencing the woodleigh solids here, just the PSP's.

Aka,

The PH used a white light, which did not startle the leopards.

I say leopards because we had two big males come in and get "lit up". The first one I tried to shoot with a .308 Win with the Trijicon 1.25-4X24 scope. I could not get the leopard in that scope. The second leopard at another bait four nights later I could see in the 3-9X40 set at 6X.

I did some research with people who shoot at night and they pretty much like the 3-9X40 format with lights, and the Europeans go for the bigger objectives for night shooting. It isn't just the exit pupil, you need to gather the available light too and present that to your visual system.

I took several low-power variable scopes into an unlighted warehouse, and tried them with a 15 lumen light source at about 25 yards. All of them "worked", but that small building was not a good model for sitting in a leopard blind at night with no moon. That seems to suck up the light in a way that testing inside a building does not.

Anyway, I moved up to the Leupold 32 mm objective scopes from the 20 mm units (these are plenty good for daylight in Africa).

jim

Jim,

I think your on the right track with regards scopes for low light. In addition to the exit pupil size, you also have to consider the "twilight" factor which is a function of the objective lens size and and the magnification...basically the bigger the objective, the more light that is "delivered" through the scope. Couple this with a correct sized exit pupil, and the available light is delivered in a manner that can be used effectively...

This is the reason 8x56mm scopes are popular for lamping and other low light work in the UK and Europe

In addition to these mathamatical based considerations, another very important factor which can slew things is the quality of the optics concerned.

I would much rather have a high quality 6x42mm than a cheap 6-24x50mm with all the bells and whistles on..

To get the very most out of a high quality scope in these conditions I really think you need an illuminated reticule. Very often you can see fairly well through the scope, but you loose the black reticule when you place it over the dark target. Out of choice I would go for an illuminated reticule where the brightness was variable...

I have a Swaro 3-12x50mm with illuminated reticule and I think it would be about perfect in a leopard blind...Mount in QD mounts, and then use a smaller more conventional scope during daylight if needs be...

Regards,

Pete

Hey Pete, I've been working with my aforementioned Leupold and it seems to be working out. With the "target" leoparf at 50 yards (actually a deer deckoy but sprayed with black paint spots and atanding inside a clump of bushes in my back yard , I cna see enough to shoot and that's without that red light that is usually employed in htese hunts. Are you recommending the 2.5X10X50mm Leupold instead? I did the math and with the 1.5X5 X20 ( but it has a 30mm tube) set at 3X I get a 6mm exit pupil. Thoughts? jorge

Jorge,

I've not used a *quality* 20mm scope, but the idea of using one at last light or night time tends to make me very nervous...

On my recent hunt in RSA I used a 4x32mm Meopta and while I was generally very pleased with its performance, I did notice the difference at last light but as I was not shooting leopard, it did not matter too much, just part of the trade-off we make in these circumstances.

With regards the exit pupil, that is only one aspect to consider...an analogy might be a hosepipe...the exit pupil would correspond to the bore of the pipe, while the twilight factor would equal the pressure the water is being pumped at..so if the bore of two pipes is the same, but one is under more pressure, which delivers more water aka light???

If I were you, and seeing how much you have riding on this hunt, I would want to try a bigger scope next to your 20mm and see how they compared under difficult light conditions...I haven't got the best eyes in the world, and the extra brightness from my 50mm Swaro makes a difference, but perhaps it won't be as marked for you?

All I can say is try it and see...Order a 50mm or 42mm scope one on "sale or return" and carefully tape it to a tripod and see how it performs side by side with your 20mm...

One thing you might want to try is rigging a powerful light up somewhere behind your target so simulate a leopard silhouetted by a setting sun...how a scope handles "flare" in these conditions is also critical...

Regards,

Pete

I really don't think a leopard-specific scope is in order. I'd just use whatever general-purpose scope you have on your rifle already.

AD

Jorge,

Pete has a good point with the Twilight Factor (square root of the product of magnification and objective diameter in millimeters). In my research I found the sources with testing experience feel a minimum TF over 10 is needed. Your TF with the 1.5-5X20 is just 10 at 5 power just makes 10. The quality of the VXIII scopes is "good enough" too.

Pete's second point on the illuminated reticle is excellent too. I used the Trijicon scopes for that reason.

I like your "practice leopard": I did the same with a piece of leopard fabric.

jim

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
AKA,

Out of curiousity, is that a front or rear pad in the picture? How long do you estimate it to be?

Regards,

Pete

Pete, I'm not sure if its a forward or rear pad.
John Sharp saw this cat and commented what a big skull it has. This cat has eluded hunters for years. That was a 300 weatherby cartridge by his print. John would like to see nothing better than this cat gone so other males could take over his territory. Most of the cats that come out of this area seems to be over 160 pounds. Mine was 7'3"

Jorge,

Win Pre 64 hmm I don’t know about those old rifles.

Congratulations, excellent shooting

Roland

messed up post

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Jim: I also would have preferred a bigger objective, but the way I figure it, with the scope set at 4X, that gives me 5mm exit (20mm objective) pupil which is about as much as my 51 year old eyes can dilate to. I also communicated with John Barnsness and he indicated the low power Leupold would do fine. I've been doing quite a bit of testing right at dark, and it seems to be working ok, especailly with the ill ret set at about the next to the lowest setting.

Steve, that is one hell of a paw print! I only hope he survives another 2 years until I can get there. jorge

jorge he will be there for you. Knowbody else seems to be able to get him in their crosshairs.