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All are canned, which is why I won't ever shoot one.

Not my cup of meat.

All the Wild Winos around here are "canned" but usually prefer bottles. They're protected so hunting isn't allowed although they occasionally poach each other ...

I don't know about white rhino but I have seen claims of truly wild black rhino in Namibia. $$$$$$$$$

It would bear a very careful examination. I hate to shoot something and find out it was known to the locals as Spunky or Puddin.

quote:

And now more importantly if so why then the hypocricy when it comes to Lion when SCI clearly accept the White Rhino which by all accounts are all canned. Remembering history in that in 1929 there were less than 100 left and currently almost all of the 6000 odd white Hhino in africa all are in fact "canned" ( we wont even touch on the Black

ALF,

The SCI "Inner circles" won't have as much back slapping if they did not allow groomed white rhinos into the book.

I am going to stick my head out and state with a 99% certainly that many animals entered in the SCI record book have NOT been hunted ethically!

Those guys have only one holy grail.

Get in the book without any regard to ethics or anything else.

There is a Rhino, in RSA on the Moholoholo rehabilitation center that was darted a few times for big bucks. We wanted to get better pictures of it so the Gate Keeper whistled and the rhino trotted over. Pretty cool pictures, but I was laughing to myself that someone paid big bucks to shoot a tame rhino with a dart.

I feel sorry for White Rhinos. When they get big enough for the SCI book, people paint the name to their website on them.

Namibia definately have free ranging black rhino. I also consider the white rhino in places like Waterberg Platue Park as free ranging, although there is a fence around Waterberg. (There will be one a year on the upcoming quota auctions in WPP)
Some other important difference between lion and rhino- at least some rhino that are hunted have been born on the place they will later be hunted on, not all are "human imprinted"/ used to humans sticking their food through a hole in the fence, and have been living self sustainable on a comparatively large area for a very long time.

Karl,

My thought too. As stated elsewhere letting "wild" lions roam on a game farm to fend for themselves runs up a tidy trophy fee tally in a hurry. Rhinos can just graze or browse like the rest of the game. If the area is large and the animals have grown up there on their own I'm not sure how much different one of these white rhino hunts would be from a hunt a 150 years ago. My 2 cents.

Brett

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ALF,

I actually have absolutely no problems with people wanting to shoot animals that have been bred on a farm, as long as they do not claim they are actually HUNTING them.

To me, it is no different than me shooting some of the animals we have in our backyard.

I always think that dart hunting rhino is a lot more fun and a lot more challenging than hunting them with a rifle. I think one also needs to remember that there's a big difference between the black and the white varities.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
All the Wild Winos around here are "canned" but usually prefer bottles. They're protected so hunting isn't allowed although they occasionally poach each other ...

Nice!

I would not even DREAM of darting a rhino!

I would be happy to get close and take photos of it, but dart it and have my photo taken next to it?

Not my cup of tea I am afraid.

I don't, however, begrudge those who enjoy this sort of thing.

As far as i know there is one or two areas in natal that gave free ranging rhinos.I think its part of one of the game reserves down there that has a hunting area.I wouldnt call them totaly free range as they used to seeing humans but at the same time you hunt for what you get and there is no garentee on trophy size.You not going to come to S.A. knowing that you going to shoot a 30 inch rhino.Three years ago the rhinos at this reserve were going for about 175000 rand to PH at auction.This year they went for nearly 500000 rand on auction.I cant remember the name of the reservr but i think its the Umfelozi.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmara:
..................I wouldnt call them totaly free range as they used to seeing humans ....................

Here is another angle to the quoted statement.

I would not call whitail deer in USA totally free ranging as they are used to seeing humans, and have learned that humans often means trouble, so they make sure they see humans first and evade any contact with them. That is why they are considered by many as the most difficult creature to walk in search for and still hunt!

In my book if an animal was born and grew up and old to be regarded as a trophy on one property without any supplementary feeding [except for perhaps once or so during a severe drought] then the size of the enclosure is large enough for it to be regarded as "totally free ranging". It lives a fully natural life and only the urge to migrate seasonally or at times of drought is altered by the fact that they are "behind a fenc"!

What jimmara may want to say is that "... on some reserves where rhino are totally free ranging there is so much human trafic by, for example photographic tourists, that they become totally or partly habituated to human presence where the humans do not harm them......" Under these conditions the free ranging rhino "unlearns", or learns by example of others, not to run away when they see/smell humans, and therefore a hunt for them here cannot be considered totally cosher! That I quite agree with!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

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I hunted plains game in Pilansberg Reserve a few years ago. Limited hunting is done there for white rhino. Although the park is fenced, it is enormous. I can't imagine a rhino could get any wilder than those we saw there. There was nothing tame about the white rhino we saw and the black rhino were very aggressive. Coenraad Vermaak Safaris had the hunting rights when we were there. Also each year a couple truly wild lion were taken. These were only older males with the approval of a ranger who accompanied you.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
I hunted plains game in Pilansberg Reserve a few years ago. Limited hunting is done there for white rhino. Although the park is fenced, it is enormous. I can't imagine a rhino could get any wilder than those we saw there. There was nothing tame about the white rhino we saw and the black rhino were very aggressive. Coenraad Vermaak Safaris had the hunting rights when we were there. Also each year a couple truly wild lion were taken. These were only older males with the approval of a ranger who accompanied you.

Iknow these lions are wild but they not truly wild.These lions have hundreds of people a day come into the park driving right up to them or as close as they can get snapping the camera away.they not scared of humans.If they have to see you walking on foot i dont think they are going to try put as much distance between him and you.

To expand on what Timot said I was in Mkuze Game Reserve a couple of years ago with Garry Kelly and a very expereinced African hunter from Spain. This Spaniard had hunted all the DG many times including the forest ele's in Cameroon. Once he had shot his rhino I asked him how his expereince conpared to his previous DG hunts. He said the white rhino in Mkuze equalled anything he had run into in the jungles of Cameroon or anywhere else.

Having been around rhino on both game farms and in these large reserves I just don't think the hunt on one can compare to the other. The hunt on the reserves is only limited in its wild factor by the exterior fence.

Mark

I was in northern Namibia in 2007, and went out with my host and his wife to look around their 680,000-acre "farm." It is high-fenced only around the perimeter. When we drove up to a group of small hills, she got out and began calling an animal's name and within a few minutes a black rhino cow and her calf came out of the brush and trotted up to us.

The woman petted and "played" with both of them. She had raised the cow from when it was a calf and released it when it grew up. Although it now roamed totally free on that huge place -- and had bred twice with wild rhinos -- it still remembered her.

I stayed in the truck, and took photos of them from a few yards away.

Also, while I was there, an elephant attacked and killed an adult male black rhino at the opposite end of their property. Such attacks apparently are common where rhinos and elephants occur together.

Bill Quimby

i dunno but years ago in natal we had "huntable" rhinos. you could walk up to them, slap their butts and offer them a beer. had a spaniard hunting for one. they drove up about 100' away, the guy shot the rhino, which ran off into the bush. PH told him to wait, but he rushed in after it. Next thing you hear is another kaboom. In walking to to the first one, they came across the 2nd one. it was a pregnant cow. now the guy owed for 3

This has become very F*cking boring!

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
This has become very F*cking boring!

No one is forcing you to read it.

Jimmara: The hunting area in the park was huge and was closed to tourism. Hunting was done in a remote back part of the park. I still maintain these lions were as wild as any I saw in Tazania. You were not going to walk up and take their picture. If you look at this park it is the size of Rhode Island. How large an area does it have to be to be wild. If you think game in these large parks are not wild, take a late night stroll in Kruger.

I hunted white rhino in Mkuze immediately after hunting elephants in Botswana. I thought the rhino were much more difficult to approach and much more "switched on" than the elephants. Mkuze is where someone was gored in the backside a few weeks before I got there. MMP

Saeed, no one is forcing me to read anything posted on this site and many with their holier than thou attitudes make it a less than enjoyable read. It seems anyone that feel hunting captive breed Lions or captive breed Rino are less than true sportsmen and god forbid they call themselves hunters. Personally I find it repugnent. for one to kill all the buffalo they can buy. I guess I will be banned for that comment.

LJS I Jimmara

I think you're talking about Mkuze controlled hunting area where the game dept also have a camp. Hunting packages are auctioned every year and are usually a pretty good deal.

On th subject of white rhino, they're not usually a particularly hard animal to get close to unless they've been hassled and a traditional game amongst Zulu children was where one would sneak up to a sleeping rhino and carefully place a stone on his arse, then the next one would sneak up and bring it back.... and so the game continued. Nowadays, SA law in most, if not all provinces decree that all areas with Lions, Hippos, Elephants, Buff and Rhino etc be fenced in with game fence and electricified droppers, so I don't suppose it happens quite so much nowadays.

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quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
This has become very F*cking boring!

Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed...

I would be interested in your learned opinion if this is soooo boring...

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Saeed, no one is forcing me to read anything posted on this site and many with their holier than thou attitudes make it a less than enjoyable read. It seems anyone that feel hunting captive breed Lions or captive breed Rino are less than true sportsmen and god forbid they call themselves hunters. Personally I find it repugnent. for one to kill all the buffalo they can buy. I guess I will be banned for that comment.

One would think that after 2995 posts, you would learn some manners and not spend the effort to insult the host.

I shoot all of the buffalo I can buy - one or two. So I guess I am repugnant as well.
Get a life and look in the mirror before tossing anymore stones..

dogcat, I got out of bed on the same side I always have. This subject (maybe not Rino in particular) has been beaten to death in the last couple of months thus my comment.

I don't find telling the truth to be insulting, if I am to cowtow to anyone one on this free spirited board then it is not what it is proposed to be.

I am not entitled to my opinion? In my opinion, you being repugnant well I guess that is your call I know my opinion of such actions.

I guess it comes from my opinion that hunting Buffalo is not all that exciting, you follow a bovine in a herd or a small group and wack em. Personally I find hunting the Pygmy antelope to be more challenging and the spiral horned antelope more fun and challenging. JMO nothing more nothing less.

So what if it has been beaten to death? The subject of PH tipping and the endless questions of where to go and what caliber to use are beaten to death as well. There is a 19 page thread of someone being cheated by a custom gun maker. So what?

I just find your response and your insult of the host in bad form and bad manners.

You are entitled to your opinion but that does not mean you are obligated to share it.

Sometimes a little discretion is better than typing what you are thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Saeed, no one is forcing me to read anything posted on this site and many with their holier than thou attitudes make it a less than enjoyable read. It seems anyone that feel hunting captive breed Lions or captive breed Rino are less than true sportsmen and god forbid they call themselves hunters. Personally I find it repugnent. for one to kill all the buffalo they can buy. I guess I will be banned for that comment.

If we use your logic, then why would anyone want to go hunt a second time?

Why would anyone want to shoot another deer?

After all, they have done it, and that should be the end of it.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Saeed:

Now this is interesting: We do not breed with our animals, they simply run to fast or stand to high and quite frankly trying to do so with a Hippo just is not my cup of tea

As to shooting them, well that we do as much as whether they are in Zambia, Rhodesia ( I refuse to call it Zimbabwe) or Tanzania.

Did you know that the lion of Tanzania are also "canned" sorry I meant to say "fenced" , yep they are, they hang around in groups and are fenced..... fenced by a very strong territorial instinct, so strong the males fight and die to remain within the boundries of that fence ! for most they will remain within that "fence" Ive seen them 3 days without moving, Same applies to Rhino.

And as to "hunting them" Oh Yes, sitting on a beach chair under a warm blanket in the dead of night waiting for a Lion or Leopard come to a bait tied to a tree is Hunting? ...... or is it shooting?

Alf,

Firstly, if we in Zimbabwe can call it Zimbabwe, I don't see why you can't. But this is not the political or country naming forum so I will move on....

You obviously have very little idea what baiting and hunting leopard/lions is all about, if you imagine it is merely sitting on a beach chair under a warm blanket waiting for the cat to come in. Try 4 a.m. starts, long, exhausting days covering hundreds of kilometers on the bait run, disappointment time and again, turning down numerous cats, and often failure at the end of the hunt. I suggest you read a couple of the in-depth leopard hunting books that have been published in recent times. Then you may get an idea of what it is all about, and begin to appreciate it for what it is - serious toil and a refined art. Yes, anyone can shoot a leopard, but that's not the name of the game, is it? There is nothing straightforward or assured about shooting a big male leopard - nothing at all.

Dave
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Kamo Gari:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
All the Wild Winos around here are "canned" but usually prefer bottles. They're protected so hunting isn't allowed although they occasionally poach each other ...

Nice!

Obama rally in Boston ...

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Great pictures Alf.

Alf

Great pictures nice cats, you daughter and your wife are very pretty.

I was lucky enough to see white and black rhino up close in the SAVE. VERY close.

I would never kill one [unless charged of course] I would much rather hunt elephants.


However most of the rhino hunting, either green or kill, is very expensive, with a large part of the $$$ going to protect the rhino.

Not a bad thing all considered.

Also let me add that i was very close to a "cheetah" amd several different wild dogs in the SAVE as well.

I could have shot the "spotted cat", but since you cannot bring the skin into the USA, I passed, and left it for a European Hunter.

I considered myself lucky for seeing them in the wild.