Bwanna has now had TWO brand new stocks replaced on his NEW Ruger .458 Lott. Both have cracked at the end of the action and the second went down through the wrist on the right side. Has anyone else had problems with the Ruger stock on their DG rifles splitting or cracking? Ruger has agreed to replace the stock again, but will not replace the rifle. What could be causing the problem? The gunsmith that we both have perform work on our vast batteries of guns has said that the stock on the .458 Lott is not conducive to glass bedding and does not need it. Please give us all of your thoughts and expertise on this timely issue. Unfortunately, Bwanna is headed to Zimbabwe in a week and a half, and both Retreever and I have offered our .458 Lotts to him to use if need be.

Thanks man. I don't want to jinx myself, so I'm hoping that this third stock is the charm. Ruger has been responsive to getting them replaced. I hope it's nothing in the action. I plan on putting at least 20 rounds through the thing on Saturday.

Had a ph in zim who used an old model 70 458 with a crack in the pistol grip . Seems they used to do that regularly and even Capstick discribed it in one of his books. The solution was duct tape. It might help you get through a safari.

I've certainly thought about it! The thing that really upsets me, is it was shooting bullets in the same hole a 50 yards just before it broke. Where I come from I was taught if you couldn't fix something with duct tape and bailing wire, you just weren't trying hard enough.

FWIW - CZ is aware of the stock problem on their express rifles and not only recommends glass bedding, they also offer it as an add on to help strengthen the stock.

I can't understand why your gunsmith says the Ruger is not conducive to bedding. Granted, it is tougher to do than most guns due to it's design but to say it doesn't need it and is a bit of a sweeping generalization. Sounds to me as if he just doesn't want to take on the job.

I have sold quite a few of these guns over the years and have never had a problem with the stocks. I have seen some feeding problems (only in the Lott), but otherwise it's an extremely reliable gun.

Is the stock cracking in the same or general area? I bet it's the tang area which needs relief quite often. I just got one in myself and will be giving it attention in that area and yes, the Ruger can be bedded despite what your 'smith says.

Wood stocks can be a thing of beauty and they truly make a fine firearm even finer. But, for my hunting use, fiberglass, etc. is the only way to go. Glass or synthetic stocks do not catch your eye like a fine piece of walnut but if I were to break a beautiful wood stock while hunting, that alone would probably ruin the trip. I do understand the nostalgia and warmth associated with a cherished old favorite or a new favorite in wood but I only want synthetic when it comes to crunch time. I'll leave the fine pieces of wood at home in the gunsafe. An old gunsmith once told me, "wood don't quit growin' till you throw it in the fire". IMO, you're taking more than just one chance at disaster when you go into the field cradling a piece of wood.

Keep your fine wood stocks but invest in a good synthetic as well. Change them out before you take that trip of a lifetime with that one of a kind wood stock.

Bull1

had a client go through two stocks on his new CZ earlier this year. One back home after 17 rounds and the second one cracked here. He had fired 20 rounds with it back home. Three test shots here, after which it was ok. He fired two shots at his ele. (frontal brain and an insurance shot) after which there was a noticeable crack.

I have never seen any rifle larger than a .375 withstand much use without the stock giving way. Wven the old Mausers with their carefull wood to metal fit break stocks in 10,75.

Bed it- Accra steel is better than glass

For those members in Africa - Trinepon 61 is the compound to use. More durable than plastic steel.

Can't be glass beded??? Nonsense! Glass bed the thing and if it doesn't already have one, have a second stock bolt added aft of the magazine well. Also as someone touched on above, the end of the tang should have a (very) slight gap between the metal and wood. Now about that gunsmith... there are gunsmiths and there are parts replacers. Make sure you have the former before having any work done! A title or even a diploma is meaningless without practicle skill and an artistic understanding of firearm machanics.

If this is an ongoing problem with the big Rugers and others, as it appears here that it is, then WHY isn't Ruger and the other manufacturers making sure that this is corrected by glass bedding and other procedures BEFORE you purchase the gun? What I see coming is a lawsuit, once someone hunting DG is killed when a stock of a DG gun busts or cracks and the shot is thrown off or not made at all. What can we do about it to make them understand the magnitude of the issue and offer the gun with it being corrected BEFORE you purchase it? The problem is that once you undertake to glass bed it, etc. you void the warranty and are responsible for any damages that occur to the gun and to yourself.

Have your 'smith bed the removeable recoil "plate" and make sure there is clearance between the rear of the top tang and the stock wood behind it. Be careful to tighten the screws in the proper order, the angled one that pulls the barreled action against the recoil plate first then all screws front to back starting at the forward screw in the forearm.

It is critical to check screw tightness (particularly after frequent shooting). If the screws loosen, the barreled action will move rearwad under recoil and the top tang will split the stock. This is the cause of stock problems with the Ruger.

I have one in .416 Rigby and one in .375H&H. The 416 split when the screws became loose. These two rifles are extreemly accurate and reliable. Although I own more expensive rifles I keep coming back to these two even though I don't love them.

Brett

I would not own or shoot a wood stock big bore that has not been glass bedded. I would also add a 3/8 steel rod down through the grip.

Snowwolfe beat me to it. Have bedded screw rod I've purchased at hardware stores down through the wrist on a number of rifles. Don't have the rod so tight that you are screwing it into the wrist. Put plenting of bedding compound it the hole and also on the threads of the rod before inserting it.

I have put 50+rounds through my 77 in .458 Lott with no loosening of screws and no stock splitting... so far.

However, I will keep my eyes open for symptoms given the warning.

I did have a .458 win custom (Eddystone receiver, Douglass barrel, some stock I didn't recognize) split the stock when I was a kid; glass-bedding fixed that.

Dan

Brett: I have one of the old 416 Rigbys, the ones with the 24" barrel and the sling swivel stud in the forearm. Although I never had any problems with it, I had the recoil plate bedded just in case. I've put close to one 800 rounds through it with no problems. I did have the action out after I returned from africa though, as I needed to tend to some light rust from my sweat . That's good info on the screw tightening sequence though. Thanks! jorge

George,

Glad you have had good luck with your rifle. Congrats by the way on your buff with John Sharp!

I seem to be having a shotgun wedding with my Ruger 375, I want to use one of my other rifles for various hunts but something always seems to be wrong with the one selected. The damn Ruger just works, always goes bang and is very accurate. I hate the weight and the way I carry it the rear sight ramp is in the way. I'm not fond of the "square" edges on the stock or the finish, not hot on the cast components either.

On the ohter hand it is one of the best functioning rifles I've ever had...

Thanks, Brett. I feel the same way about my 375, only mine's a 70. It just plain works. That Ruger was tough on me slogging it up and down those hills in Dande though, wish it would have been 2lb lighter. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Brett: I have one of the old 416 Rigbys, the ones with the 24" barrel and the sling swivel stud in the forearm. Although I never had any problems with it, I had the recoil plate bedded just in case. .... jorge

Same here. I had both of my Ruger M77 Magnums glass bedded. One is in .375 H&H and the other is in .416 Rigby (an older, heavier one like Jorge's). When my smith took the .416 out of its stock, he found some evidence of the action starting to "beat up" the stock. He found some very small pieces/chips of wood inside around the inletting. This after only having shot about 60 rounds through it. No cracks had started, however, so all was good. I think it's a good idea to glass bed the Ruger M77 Magnums.

-Bob F.

Just talked to Bwanna about his ongoing saga with Ruger. Hopefully he will post all of the details shortly so you can all get an idea of what to do and not to do with your Ruger Magnums.

I think Use Enough Gun hit it on the nose...why do companies keep selling guns that have an obvious and many times reported flaw? The factory could probably do glass bedding for under $100 per stock as opposed to three times that to replace a stock. I would gladly pay the extra bucks just to have piece of mind. I know you can get it done after you buy the rifle, but I am a bit of the impatient type. I don't want to plunk down cash for a new toy and then have to wait another couple of months to use it after I have it in my posession....I guess I am just strange when it comes to that.
I also agree that sometime there will be a lawsuit when a stock "explodes" and gravely injures someone...the factory is going to have a hard time defending against that one!
I agree with the other posters here, get it glass bedded, not only for strength and safety, but for piece of mind as well.

Here is the definative (or not so much so) answer I received from Ruger this morning. After our friends at UPS lost the overnight shipment for a day (putting me further behind the 8-ball), Ruger finally received the gun this morning. I have to give them some credit, they've gotten on this quickly, and have, or will, fix it and overnight it to me twice.

I received a call from the customer serive rep at Ruger who informed me that she was holding my stock and the technician was standing there as well. She said that the gun showed signs that the stock screws had been tightened after it left Ruger the last time with the new stock on it. I admitted that I had tightened them, before taking it to shoot, because I was concerned about breaking the stock becuase of loose screws, as I had done the first time. She indicated in response that the screws are factory set and torqued and that my tightening them was the cause of the stock breaking, as it had pulled things out of alignment.

Furthermore, she informed me that her notes indicated that the first gun had arrived there with all of the screws being very loose, and that on that one the looseness was the cause of the stock spliting. I assured her that I had not messed with the stock at all on the first break.

In any case, I was starting to boil, as I felt she was treating me like a kindergartener. I told her that I, and everyone I know, will routinely tighten screws on rifles to make sure they are tight. She responded that this cannot be done on the Ruger magnum as it will cause the stock to be out of alignment and void the warranty.

In the end, they agreed to replace it again, but warned me not to mess with anything. She also got on my case a bit for putting an aftermarket recoil pad on it. I told her that was insane, that everyone changed the factory ones out, and that should not affect the stock. She said it would if the breakage was at the rear. I told her she needed to feel the recoil of the .458 Lott herself and then tell me that the chinsy RUger factory pad is sufficient.

In any case, here's where we are...the gun will be back to me tomorrow by overnight mail (again, give them thanks for that). I'll go shoot it on Saturday - 20 rounds at least to see how it holds up. I'm not going to mess with the screws or even the recoil pad. If it holds up, I'll take it with a .375 H&H as a backup. If it breaks again, I'll have the .416 Remington M70 ready to go.

I'm off to Zim a week from tomorrow. These last minute issues are FUN!

Any thoughts on Ruger's explanation?

Bwana,

I feel for you. I had a stock split on my 458 just before a safari and I had no big bore back up. It was a real goat rope and I nearly had a bleed over it.

So what are you supposed to do if the stock dries out in a few days, months or years and the screws loosen up? Send it back for them to tighten? They are feeding you a load of crap and know it. Perhaps you should take the loaner rifles you've been offered.

Good luck!

Mark

Sound's like a manager whose getting dinged on returns. CYA.

So, by her logic, no one should remove the stock as they would have no way to reinstall it correctly.

If that's the case, why don't they use non-removable thread adhesive and/or tamper indicators? Was it anywhere in the warranty that one can not remove stock without voiding the warranty?

I one can, what are the torque specs?

I beleive that you are completely covered by the Uniform Commercial Code Impiled Warranty (SS 2-314 2-B" " are fit for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are used; and"

But I'm not lawyer.

That being said, I did have a fore-end screw come loose on my Lott (airplane vibration). I have had the stock off a couple of times. No stock damage that I'm aware of and I've shot the hell out of the gun.

-Steve

Yes, I agree. I think it's their way of trying to rectify a situation that they can't rectify. I mean, all of us check and tighten the screws on our rifles in order to make sure that we don't have a problem with accuracy or worse. I think that Bwanna and I have decided that we are going to have our .458 Lott's restocked, glass bedded and whatever else we need to have done, by our local custom gunstock maker, once he returns from Zimbabwe.

"fit for ordinary purposes" Yes. UCC Aritcle 2 - Sale of Goods. I was jus getting ready to drop the lawyer bomb on her, when I realized they were replacing it again for me. In any case, I'll report on Saturday's shooting. I'll either be comforted in its performance or I'll be taking the .416 Rem.

I, too, was wondering about the manual saying don't tighten the screws or take the stock off. I'll have to look this evening, but I can't think it says anything in that regard.

So the first stock breakage was because the screws were too loose, and the second because they were too tight??? Unbelievable. I'd sure like to know what the proper torque is so I don't wreck my rifle!! But I am not a Qualified Action Screw Torquer, so it would probably void the warranty anyway.

FWIW, though, I own a 470 Mbogo built on one of the Ruger Magnums with the sling swivel band in the forearm of the stock. The 470 probably kicks close to half again as hard as the 458 Lott. While Dave (the previous owner) had it, he had a small stock split that he remedied with bedding, as noted below:

quote:

The
stock did split in the small inside piece between the trigger assembly and
the back of the magazine box so I glass bedded the area plus installed a
hidden cross bolt using an 8-32 screw and nut glassed in across the split
area.

Since I bought it from him 3 years ago, I have put a lot of rounds through it and haven't had any additional problems.

I do admit, I pull the stock at least once a year to check it, and when I re-install it, I tighten the hell out of the action screws! Might have to back off on that a little...but how far????

Actually, Mark twigged me to something I hadn't considered. Since I will be travelling from a very dry climate at home, to a humid climate in Tanz, leaving my action screws tightened right up before departing could cause some problems with splitting when the wood swells! No?

Cheers,
Canuck

I read somewhere that is because of the possibilty of lawsuits that manufacturers often do NOT make obvious safety changes. If they make changes during the run of a current model it is the same as admitting that they had a problem and opens the door for every one made prior to the change to file suit. Ain't lawyers wonderful?

Careful, that's what Bwanna is!

Touche Use Enough Gun!

Bwana:
Be glad they let the recoil pad issue slide...I wanted to send a Ruger RSM in 416 Rigby back for feeding problem correction. It also had a new pad added. The customer service rep said they would do nothing until they REPLACED the entire stock at a cost to me of about $500. Needless to say, I took it to a local gunsmith and ate the cost of the repair even though the gun was under warranty.

upon getting my Lott I had to buy ammo and had an audience watching that fool get beat up by the big gun..Fired 40 shots out of it and it went to the gunsmith..It was bedded and it shoots great...

Mike

Well, everyone. Hold your collective breath, the shoulder cannon should be back to my office this a.m. I'm half expecting them to have strapped a damn railroad tie to it.

I would be inclined to agree with Ruger on the first one. With the angled screw, it is almost a standard occurence for the recoil to compress it enough after 20 shots or so for the screws to become loose. This will happen with a Ruger in .30-06. I doubt the screws being too tight broke the second one, more likely that there wasn't any gap behind the tang. That said, I've shot probably 300 through my .416 no problems whatsoever and I haven't glassed it or anything either. I don't believe the Ruger has a chronic problem with it like the CZ's, but obviously you have a problem with yours. As Ganyana said, all of the big bores, even custom high dollar rifles have stock splitting problems. That's because they're wood, just like the trees breaking on a saddle, it can happen with any of them.

Hello Use Enough Gun,
If torque is a problem, and it is critical, suggest that Ruger provide you with the torque setting they use, install allen head action screws, apply correct torque or check for correct torque w/ your torque wrench and that should not present any future problems. Also would need to know the sequence in applying torque to each screw. Probably front to back, but Ruger engineering would have a spec on this.
You can rest assured that all of these stock breakage problems were fully discussed in product meetings with the design and engineering staff prior to the poduction of the rifle in question. Bill Ruger was still around upon the development of the Magnum series and he was well aware of the many problems Winchester had with their early attempts at African caliber rifles. I would venture that few if any mfg.'s have greater engineering and production capabilites than Ruger and would go with their advise.

As a suggestion prior to shooting the rifle, use a witness mark of some sort on the screw heads themselves and that can be one with a simple white paint ball pen, red, orange, etc. and easy to check if screw has loosened. Just strike a white line across the head of the screw, onto stock, bottom metal, etc. and it can be easily removed if desired w/ solvent as Hoppe's, etc. Most long range civilian and military shooters have their action screws so marked for quick check. Plus they know the torque to apply and the sequence. Just a suggestion.

I've run a couple of hundred rounds through my RSM in .458 Lott, mostly in frustrating load development. Likewise, it is not bedded (as my gunsmith said he did not think it necessary on the Ruger.)

It shoots really, really good, however about a month ago groups started opening up. Soon they were downright bad! I was concerned, until I decided to check the screws. While the main angled action screw was tight, the one behind it (in front of the trigger guard) was quite loose. I tightend it and low and behold, my groups tightened back up. Then I noticed that it loosens up after about 15-20 shots. It's got me jumpy.

Will locktight solve this problem?

I just had my Ruger .416 "steel" bedded and a recoil pad installed. I thought it was prudent to do this before I ever fired the rifle. We also smoothed the action and did a trigger job. This is probably the equivalent of taking a new car, removing the computer and installing a racing cam.

Understood Oldcoyote. How is it working for you at this point?

Yukon delta
Haven't shot it yet. There is some roughness in the barrel about 5 inches from the muzzle. JB bore compound smoothed it out somewhat. I hope it shoots well. I called Ruger and they said I could send it in and they would have a look. They further said I MUST send the stock, no barreled action allowed. Uh-oh.

If the rifle shoots OK, no problem, if not, we'll look into lapping the bore.

Interesting. As much as I love Ruger (and I do), I would not send it in if at all possible. For that matter, if you're making this a real project then consider having it rebarreled by your favorite 'smith. That would really complete the project and make it your own. Then you could sell it to me

A few comments on tightening screws, which I had from two smiths I trust:

Always tighten the screw in front of (on the barrel side) of the magazine first. That one should be tightest. It should NOT be "too" tight. At the least, it can compress the wood and ruin accuracy -- or cause it to split in that region later. That's not good. The next one is the one furthest to the rear, nearest the grip. That one should not be as tight as the first screw. If there is a third one just in front of the trigger guard and behind the magazine, that one should be tightened least. Tightening it too much can screw up how the magazine feeds -- if you start having magazine feeding problems, you might be able to tweak it by playing with this screw.

I had been impressed with the comments my smiths had made about the impact on accuracy that the front screw could have, and that the effects of overtightening could be permanent for the stock.

Having said that, I checked the front angled screw after reading this thread the first time. I found the screw to be quite tight (it did not move when I felt it with the screwdriver -- it was tighter than I likely would have done it. I left it alone.

I can see why Ruger would get touchy about people playing with stocks that they end up needing to replace. However, tightening stock screws is something anyone with a Ruger has to do sometime or other... they sent out a recall fix that involved replacing a screw on their trigger on older M77's. You had to remove the stock to implement their fix. Are they going to turn around and say that servicing their recall voids their willingness to fix stock problems?

Dan