THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM AFRICAN HUNTING FORUM


Moderators: Saeed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Cool Science on the Tsavo Lions
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
posted
After being killed by Patterson and mounted by Carl Akeley I would have thought we knew about all we would ever know about these two but, not for the first time, I'd be wrong:

quote:
In 1898, a pair of lions repeatedly raided the tents of an encampment in Kenya, killing at least 28 people. The infamous "Tsavo man-eaters” were eventually shot and their remains put on display at the Field Museum Of Natural History in Chicago, and now a new genomic study has revealed the grim story their teeth have to tell...

They then extracted DNA from individual hair shafts, and while it wasn’t perfect, it was enough to paint a picture of the species that were a part of their diet. The results showed that their “man-eater” status was well earned, as human DNA was detected along with that of giraffes, oryx, waterbucks, wildebeest, and zebra.

Their man-eater ways were infamous, but the fact that wildebeest was on the menu was quite a surprise. Why? Because wildebeest would not have been local.


Link


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 10971 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of BaxterB
posted Hide Post
Neat stuff. Don't think Akeley did these though - they are no where near his talent.
 
Posts: 7827 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BaxterB:
Neat stuff. Don't think Akeley did these though - they are no where near his talent.


I'm not sure where I got the idea he did them, I think part of the "quality" can be explained by the fact that they were first set up as rugs by Rowland Ward, then dismantled in Chicago and made full-body mounts, after 25 years on Patterson's floor.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 10971 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
50 miles doesn't seem like a long way for a pair of lions to travel. Plus, wildebeest can turn up where they aren't supposed to be. I shot a western wildebeest in Masailand in July. He shouldn't have been there at that time of year. He was alone hanging out with some zebra.
 
Posts: 10456 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 26 December 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
They then extracted DNA from individual hair shafts, and while it wasn’t perfect, it was enough to paint a picture of the species that were a part of their diet.


If DNA findings are being quoted, then hypothetically speaking these can relate to the family tree of these two Lions which could have (likely) resided in the Mara Region of Kenya.
 
Posts: 2065 | Registered: 06 September 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
They then extracted DNA from individual hair shafts, and while it wasn’t perfect, it was enough to paint a picture of the species that were a part of their diet.


If DNA findings are being quoted, then hypothetically speaking these can relate to the family tree of these two Lions which could have (likely) resided in the Mara Region of Kenya.


This was extracted from hair caught in broken teeth.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 10971 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Jerry Huffaker
posted Hide Post
They were made into rugs first and then later mounted at the field museum, I'm pretty sure Ackeley didn't mount them.


Jerry Huffaker
State, National and World Champion Taxidermist



 
Posts: 2017 | Registered: 27 February 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jerry Huffaker:
They were made into rugs first and then later mounted at the field museum, I'm pretty sure Ackeley didn't mount them.


Yeah, I don't know where I got that notion, but after looking at the dates it looks like he was probably on his last African expedition when the Field Museum bought the rugs from Patterson.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 10971 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of KMG Hunting Safaris
posted Hide Post
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.


Marius Goosen
KMG Hunting Safaris
Cell, Whats App, Signal + 27 82 8205387
E-mail: info@huntsafaris.co.za
Website: www.huntsafaris.co.za
Skype: muis19820603
Check us out on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kmghuntingsafaris
Instagram: @kmg_hunting_safaris

 
Posts: 1448 | Location: Eastern Cape | Registered: 27 October 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Agree with those saying Ackeley didn't mount the lions. It is my understanding the lions were rugs for a number of years before being mounted. They aren't worth a trip to the Field Museum. Ackeley's work in the American Museum of Natural History is amazing. Especially considering the period. Well worth the visit.
 
Posts: 820 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 05 March 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
They then extracted DNA from individual hair shafts, and while it wasn’t perfect, it was enough to paint a picture of the species that were a part of their diet.


If DNA findings are being quoted, then hypothetically speaking these can relate to the family tree of these two Lions which could have (likely) resided in the Mara Region of Kenya.


There are or at least were wildebeest in the Amboseli/Chyulu Hills area which abuts the railroad. (My memory from 50+ years ago) Doubt the lions would have had to migrate from the Mara.
 
Posts: 820 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 05 March 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by AilsaWheels:
quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
They then extracted DNA from individual hair shafts, and while it wasn’t perfect, it was enough to paint a picture of the species that were a part of their diet.


If DNA findings are being quoted, then hypothetically speaking these can relate to the family tree of these two Lions which could have (likely) resided in the Mara Region of Kenya.


There are or at least were wildebeest in the Amboseli/Chyulu Hills area which abuts the railroad. (My memory from 50+ years ago) Doubt the lions would have had to migrate from the Mara.


To me the variety of game represented argues that they ate humans by choice rather than out of need.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 10971 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by AilsaWheels:
Agree with those saying Ackeley didn't mount the lions. It is my understanding the lions were rugs for a number of years before being mounted. They aren't worth a trip to the Field Museum. Ackeley's work in the American Museum of Natural History is amazing. Especially considering the period. Well worth the visit.


I have acknowledged twice (now three times) that I misremembered that detail, just how many do you suppose is necessary?

I didn't revise my original Post because I'm a firm believer in owning one's mistakes, which I have, repeatedly.

How many more times should I do so? 3? 16?


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 10971 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Interesting, but as said, not surprising that they ate wildebeest.

Also, game migration patterns could well change. Wasn’t there a massive outbreak of rinderpest that really changed game populations about that time frame- as I recall, T Roosevelt’s safari had a bit of issues finding some types of animals relating to that. That was, IIRC, relatively shortly before the whole rail project that the Tsavo lions terrorized.

Lions are fundamentally lazy cats. A bunch of easy pickings humans around (the mortuary practice was to haul workers who died into the bush) until they became habituated would explain their good health but still choosing to eat people.
 
Posts: 11155 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
Interesting, but as said, not surprising that they ate wildebeest.

Also, game migration patterns could well change. Wasn’t there a massive outbreak of rinderpest that really changed game populations about that time frame- as I recall, T Roosevelt’s safari had a bit of issues finding some types of animals relating to that. That was, IIRC, relatively shortly before the whole rail project that the Tsavo lions terrorized.

Lions are fundamentally lazy cats. A bunch of easy pickings humans around (the mortuary practice was to haul workers who died into the bush) until they became habituated would explain their good health but still choosing to eat people.


I think rinderpest explains why buffalo wasn't represented in their diet, although I'm sure that the sample was incomplete, representing only those hair remains that survived the treatment and cleaning (presumably dermestid beetles rather than chemicals) the skulls underwent.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 10971 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Black Lechwe
posted Hide Post
If one considers how little hair humans have, the result seems all the more remarkable
 
Posts: 95 | Registered: 29 February 2016Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Black Lechwe:
If one considers how little hair humans have, the result seems all the more remarkable


Presumably the human hair would have been among the most recent additions to the collection trapped in the broken teeth.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 10971 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
All mammalian skin has hair for the most part. It may be rather fine, but it’s there.

I’m impressed that over 100 years and multiple taxidermy procedures they still can extract that DNA and identify it.

There cannot be much caught in tooth cracks.
 
Posts: 11155 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Very interesting, Thank you. Brian


IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class.
 
Posts: 3416 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
All mammalian skin has hair for the most part. It may be rather fine, but it’s there.

I’m impressed that over 100 years and multiple taxidermy procedures they still can extract that DNA and identify it.

There cannot be much caught in tooth cracks.


Assuming the header image on the article is one of the subject lions I'm not sure "crack" is the right word...


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 10971 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of KMG Hunting Safaris
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by AilsaWheels:
quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
They then extracted DNA from individual hair shafts, and while it wasn’t perfect, it was enough to paint a picture of the species that were a part of their diet.


If DNA findings are being quoted, then hypothetically speaking these can relate to the family tree of these two Lions which could have (likely) resided in the Mara Region of Kenya.


There are or at least were wildebeest in the Amboseli/Chyulu Hills area which abuts the railroad. (My memory from 50+ years ago) Doubt the lions would have had to migrate from the Mara.


To me the variety of game represented argues that they ate humans by choice rather than out of need.


Easier prey? Compared to Wildebeest, Zebra etc humans are sitting ducks.


Marius Goosen
KMG Hunting Safaris
Cell, Whats App, Signal + 27 82 8205387
E-mail: info@huntsafaris.co.za
Website: www.huntsafaris.co.za
Skype: muis19820603
Check us out on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kmghuntingsafaris
Instagram: @kmg_hunting_safaris

 
Posts: 1448 | Location: Eastern Cape | Registered: 27 October 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by AilsaWheels:
quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
They then extracted DNA from individual hair shafts, and while it wasn’t perfect, it was enough to paint a picture of the species that were a part of their diet.


If DNA findings are being quoted, then hypothetically speaking these can relate to the family tree of these two Lions which could have (likely) resided in the Mara Region of Kenya.


There are or at least were wildebeest in the Amboseli/Chyulu Hills area which abuts the railroad. (My memory from 50+ years ago) Doubt the lions would have had to migrate from the Mara.


To me the variety of game represented argues that they ate humans by choice rather than out of need.


Easier prey? Compared to Wildebeest, Zebra etc humans are sitting ducks.


Yeah, no lion ever got kicked to death by an Indian coolie, a zebra or giraffe is a lot tougher customer. Plus, dumping the bodies of those who die of injuries or illness in the brush is an ideal way to teach lions that people, while salty, are fairly tasty as long as water is available.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 10971 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
dumping the bodies of those who die of injuries or illness in the brush is an ideal way to teach lions that people, while salty, are fairly tasty as long as water is available.


Actually the main participants to the banquet are Hyenas and Vultures.

I doubt that those who were involved in the disposal of corpses ever thought that Lions might partake and I further doubt they were knowledgeable on the consequences that would derive from this practice; these being the creation of man-eating Lions.

Some indigenous tribes to this very day still "dump" corpses in the brush for the Hyenas to take care of.
 
Posts: 2065 | Registered: 06 September 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
The density of corpses would be very different.

Not very many folks die per day in a low density village.

The number of essentially slave laborers working in unfamiliar conditions would be several a day.

Hyena only get so much…
 
Posts: 11155 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
The density of corpses would be very different.

Not very many folks die per day in a low density village.

The number of essentially slave laborers working in unfamiliar conditions would be several a day.

Hyena only get so much…


If I recall the high mortality was part of the moniker "The Lunatic Express". Wikipedia says almost 2,500 workers died out of 36,000 in total in 8 years.

Link


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 10971 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
That's less than one a day.
 
Posts: 10456 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 26 December 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by lavaca:
That's less than one a day.


The active work time was shorter as well.
 
Posts: 11155 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by lavaca:
That's less than one a day.


1 out of 14 is a pretty drastic mortality rate.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 10971 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 


Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia

Since January 8 1998 you are visitor #: