What rifle and calibers are you guys using for dangerous game like cape buffalo, and can the same rigs be used for the big bears of Alaska? I want to purchase a rifle and to be honest it seems rather confusing. After reading a few posts i am stearing away from remington and push feeds. The one rifle i do like is the Ruger M77 magnum and i am hearing alot about the CZ rifles. And just when i think i should choose the .458 Lott i lean towards the .416 Rigby. Then theres the .416 Remington, you see what i mean, so maybe you guys could share with me the rigs you use . Thanks for your time Tanoose

I've shot, owned and hunted with all three calibers mentioned, all nice calibers but the 416 Remington is the one I'm sticking with. Plenty of power for anything, feeds well and a M70 so chambered makes up into a nice handling and not overly heavy package. Rigby brass is costly, it burns a lot more powder and just doesn't offer any real advantage over the Remington, IMO. The Lott is a great round but rifles will need more weight to control recoil, of which there is no shortage.

Winchester Model 70 Safari Express .375H&H, Winchester Model 70 Safari Express .470 Capstick.

George

right now a 700 nitro express double rifle

I can vouch for the Ruger RSM as being a fantastic rifle for the money. It's very well made and very strong as are all Rugers. It's got all the features most ask for in such a rifle and for far less than you'll oftentimes end up spending when you buy a stock rifle and have it customized to get such features.

The main thing is find a rifle you like and trust, practice with it ALOT to determine it's working at 100% and learn the rifle inside out. Choose a round you can shoot well and for which ammo is easy to find in the regions you're hunting in. There are many fine rounds but not all are easy to find if (God-forbid) your ammo is lost of separated from you.

PS: Rigby brass is not cheap and as mentioned above it uses large charges of powder. If this is not a concern it's got to be one of THE classic cartridges for what you plan to do.

I am going after buffalo for the first time this October. I plan on using a Winchester Safari Express in 416 Remington.

I have had this rifle for several years and am confident that it will work great.

Let's see now I own a Searcy 470 NE double and a Dakota 375 H&H. So based on that those must be the best. Is there really a best? I don't don't know. It really boils down to what gun do you shoot well and won't fail while in the field. Good Luck.

crl

I own a CZ 550 Magnum in .416 Rigby. The reason I bought this gun in this caliber is that I do not handle well the recoil of a .458 Lott, the .416 is a caliber I can shoot without flinching in a heavy enough rifle. Also it's a good all-around caliber if you can only go with one gun as it shoots almost as flat as a .375 H&H. The CZ was the least expensive rifle in this caliber which has controlled round feeding.

I use a Pre-War Model 70 Winchester in .416 Rem Mag.

Unless you are planning on having a long safari career where you will be taking numerous Cape buffalo and a few elephant, I think most hunters are best served by a .375 H&H Mag. The .416 and above is when recoil management becomes an issue. Not everyone (no matter their physical size) can handle the heavier recoiling rifles. The .416 is the top of my tolerance level while still maintaining a high level of proficiency.

The .375 H&H is very versatile rifle with easily manageable recoil. It is a great for a one-gun safari. Spend the time becoming proficient with the .375 H&H and there isn't a Cape buffalo in the world that will be able to tell the diffference between the .375 and the .416.

All that said, the best buffalo rifle is the largest caliber you can shoot effectively. As Clint Smith says, "When I'm in a gun fight, I want the biggest gun I can find. Since they won't let me carry a battleship around with me, I had better become extremely proficient with my 1911."

Regards,

Terry

Pardon for interrupting the thread, albeit on the same subject really ...

A hunter contacted me to say he has bought a [ CZ 416 rigby ] and would like some expert advice on (which particular scope) to consider fitting to the rifle FOR HUNTING CAPE BUFF specifically ...

All good ideas and particularily from those whom have actually fitted a scope and found it ideal ... makes models and benifits pleaase so I can offer him some GOOD ideas/advice

Regards, Peter

BallaBalla,

Few people would poke fun at the Leupold 1.5x5 VXIII... top quality and low power for close ranges.

I have a .375 H&H, a CZ 550 in .416 Rigby (mounting a Leupold 1.5-5 VX III), and a Searcy .470 NE double.

The Zeiss scope on the .375 is too big (3-9). The .416 did fine with plains game.

Recoil tolerance is the major issue for the relatively new shooter of big bores.

The .375 can be handled by almost anyone. .416's are starting to get into the range where some experience is desirable.

The .470 demands some experience and some recoil tolerance.

Hi Tanoose:

I have a custom 375 H&H. a custom 416 Rem Mag, a Ruger 458 Win Mag, and a custom 458 Lott....

I have taken 15 head of African game, one 46 in. Cape Buffalo included in that group.

For anything in Alaska or Africa or walks the face of the earth, the 416 Remington Mag can handle it all.

The 416 Rigby is great, but brass can be expensive, and you almost have to reload your own, never mind the larger action and weight, unless you have REALLY DEEP POCKETS.

The 416 Rem Mag, readily available in Remington, Federal and I believe Winchester ammo is a great round.

I do hanload mine with a 400 Swift Aframe bullet, IMR 4064 @ 77.5 grains pushing 2500 FPS. It shoots sub MOA @ 100 yards at over 5000 energy foot lbs. More than adequate for a good kill on Buff or any other critter that walks the earth.

Now if you want more of a stopping rifle, and why would you, I suggest the 458 Lott with a 500 grain bullet traveling at 2350 FPS..

IMHO.... stick with the 416 Rem Mag... smaller action than a 416 Rigby, cheaper brass, same ballistics...duhh...

Just my two cents..

Regards... Jim P.

I have a M70 in .404 jeffery, basically a fat .416rem. For what you are talking about a CZ in .375h&h or .416 w/ a laminated stock would be my choice. With Alaska in the mix, it would make since to have the laminated stock. A .375h&h would be a bit more versatile, but the .40s are hard to beat for managble thumpers.

CZ 550's in 375, 416 Rigby, 458 Lott and hopefully this Saturday a 470 NE.

I went on my first and only trip to hunt Cape Buffalo last September. I refuse to go on a hunting trip without taking two rifles with me..and did have the need for a second rifle on one trip many years ago. I purchased the 375 and the Lott to take with me. I used the Lott for Buffalo and would have felt very comfortable using the 375.

If it were me and I was going to use the same gun in Alaska and Africa I would purchase one with a syn. stock or after market in either 375 or 416...more versitle than the Lott...If recoil is a problem for you....the 375 H&H is mild compared to the others...

I've used the .375 H&H, .416 Remington Magnum and .416 Rigby. The .416's really get a buffalo's attention! All are adequate, but I'd use the .416 (your choice) shooting 400 grain Barnes X or FailSafe bullet. Those have worked best for me BUT I haven't shot as many buff as others on this site like Will and Ray.

quote:

Originally posted by Tanoose:
What rifle and calibers are you guys using for dangerous game like cape buffalo, and can the same rigs be used for the big bears of Alaska?.........

Like people have said before "There are several degrees of wounded but only one degree of dead". Anything you use for dangerous game is more than adequate for bears in Alaska. When I lived there the .375 H&H was pretty popular. That is what I would go for.

Also do you handload yet? You can get more versatility out of any of the ones you mentioned if you do.

Peter, if your client is from the USA, it's hard to beat the Lwup. VXIII 1.5x5 or 1.75x6 as an all rounder ona .375. When I get my CZ, I'll go w/ the 1.75x6 for a bit more magn. out @ 300yds.

There is hardly a lick of difference in any of them as far as the buffalo is concerned, they all kill very well indeed...

I like and use the 416 Remington and the 404 Jefferys myself, and I have a .470 double rifle also, and a .375 and a 9.3x62..They all work..

Bottom line? the 416 Rem is probably the most practical round for Africa, and with the advent of CZ making a 404 rifle and Federal making ammo, thats also an excellent choice....

Ray,

I've been in contact with the engineers at Federal, and I'm afraid they are going to load their factory 404s at closer to original 2150 fps ballistics than the "magic" 2400 fps most of us are looking for.

They didn't say that specifically, but they did indicate they fear the "old" original rifles that might be too weak for higher pressures.

A-Square strikes again!

You guys need to decide whether all this nostaglia for the 404 Jeffery is real or just a quasi-wildcat pursuit.

There is nothing wrong, per se, with the 404 Jeffery the "way it was."

If you want a 400 gr. bullet going 2400 fps then load your own or buy a Rigby, etc.

If I shoot a buff with a 400 gr. bullet going 2,800 fps which just happened to come out of a 404 Jeffery case, did I shoot it with a 404 Jeffery?

Tanoose,
Much depends on what you're not sharing with us.
Have you any experience shooting .375 and above?
Assuming you haven't, I would advise selecting the rifle of your choice in .375 H&H.

• It is the easiest to adjust to, in terms of recoil.
• It may prove easier to sell or trade, should things come to that.
• You may well want a .375, anyway, down the road.
• You'll likely use it more .. everywhere.
• If you master it, you'll be in a much better place, in deciding whether or not to move up in caliber.

If you've had positive experience at the .375 level and wish to move up, a .416 Remington would be my recommendation. The .458 Lott is no place to start, IMHO.

I'm going for Buff and plains game. Taking a 470 double and a CZ 9.3x62. Guess which one gets the nod for buff? I wanted to hunt Africa with classic calibers....for no other reason than I wanted to...and that's why I'm doing it. That being said, the other posts have great ideas also. Pick something you can shoot well and that you know like the back of your hand. My CZ 9.3 is like a pair of comfortable jeans with the 286 gr Partitions. I'm getting to know my 470 with some nice range sessions at about 20-25 rounds per session. Any more than that at one time and she leaves unhappy memories on my should. Best of luck on your choice(s).

Gary B.

GAH, I think it's great that Fed. is going to load the .404, I am happy w/ a factory load @ 2150fps, I can always load up. With a factory offering I might get some less expensive brass & especially bullets to play with.

Fred,

They said the factory stuff would probably retail at about $80-$90 per box of 20. I can load them all day long for less than half that with new components. Still, this is 20-30 bucks cheaper than .416 Rigby factory ammo.

I'm glad they are going to bring them out, if for no other reason than I will have a factory ammo box that matches the headstamp on my cartridges.

My .416 Remington Magnum, and "yes" to your question.

Russ

I am looking forward to thumpin my first two cape buff with a 470 Mbogo, but the only real reasons for my choice are that I have one and...

I like big bores and I cannot lie,
and you utha brutha's can't deny.....

I will probably have a 416 Taylor or 375 H&H as backup.

While I do not have the practical experience of the others guys that have posted above, I have been paying attention to them here for about 7 years now and have of course, absorbed all the literature/video that I can get my hands on...and in consideration of what I have learned, I'd say all things considered and for your average hunting client the hands down, odds-on best all purpose cape buff rounds have to be the 416 Rem Mag and the 375 H&H. Bigger is better, but only if you can shoot it well.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Nickudu:
Tanoose,
Much depends on what you're not sharing with us.
Have you any experience shooting .375 and above?
Assuming you haven't, I would advise selecting the rifle of your choice in .375 H&H.

• It is the easiest to adjust to, in terms of recoil.
• It may prove easier to sell or trade, should things come to that.
• You may well want a .375, anyway, down the road.
• You'll likely use it more .. everywhere.
• If you master it, you'll be in a much better place, in deciding whether or not to move up in caliber.

If you've had positive experience at the .375 level and wish to move up, a .416 Remington would be my recommendation. The .458 Lott is no place to start, IMHO.

Tanoose, after you've read all the answers here, the above post, by Nickudu, is one you need to read again! This is sound advice, IMO!

A big thankyou to all who replied to my post.My experience with recoil has been limited to heavy .45/70 loads in a marlin lever action and max .338 winchester magnum loads in a Ruger M77. I have been told that the 338 recoil in a 8 1/2 pound ruger would be about the same if not more then the 375 in a heavier rifle. From what i am taking in the 416 Remington seems like a great choice i guess i realy dont need the extra power and recoil of the 458lott. And yes i do reload and i dont see any velocity gain with the 416 Rigby over the 416 Remington but i do see it takes alot more powder. So i guess the 416 Remington would be a great shoice for the big bears and if i ever get the chance to go to Africa I would be ready. I just wish thet Ruger made there M77 in 416 Remington. But then again i've never owned a winchester M70 and there safari has a list price lower then the ruger. Unless you guys are talking about there custom shop rifles. So how much more recoil can i expext from the 416 Remington, , I have no problems what so ever handling the 338 and 45/70. Again thankyou to everyone.

Get some experience shooting multiple big bores, if you can. Don't be afraid of them. They don't bite.

It's more the particular rifle than the caliber, anyway. You can't just talk about whether one or another caliber kicks without getting into the question of which rifle is being used, what kind of stock it has, how much it weighs, etc.

For example, all I ever hear about is how much the Lott kicks, but when my sons were teenagers, with very little high power rifle shooting experience and NO big bore experience, they used to love to shoot my Lott. And they stayed in the black quite often and always on the paper of a fifty foot pistol target at 25 yards, too.

It's a very well designed and built rifle and that's the most important factor--far more than the numbers stamped on the barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by Tanoose:
So how much more recoil can i expext from the 416 Remington, , I have no problems what so ever handling the 338 and 45/70.

Here's my experience WRT recoil...

A 6 1/2 pound Marlin 1895 45/70 with full power loads (400gr bullet at 1850 to 1950fps) has very comparable felt recoil to a factory Win M70 in 375 H&H.

A 338 Win mag with full power loads with a 250gr bullet is not far off of a 375 H&H. In an 8.5 lb rifle it has a sharper bite than my 9.5 lb Win M70 in 375 H&H.

A 416 Rem Mag in a 9+ lb rifle is not a big step up. I can percieve a slight increase in recoil and muzzle blast, but not much...maybe 8 to 10%???? My 416 Taylor (400gr at 2400fps) is actually nicer to shoot than my 375 H&H. I know the recoil is stouter, but it is more comfortable due the the stock design and good recoil pad.

A 458 Lott on the other hand IS a very noticable step up in recoil (ie. 500gr at 2400pfs is much more "impressive" than 400gr at the same speed).

I think its pretty common that the standard 416's are the "average" persons's limit for accurate shooting, particularly if a bench rest is involved. But, I agree with mrlexma too...the bigger cartridges (hot 416's, 458 Lott and up) aren't quite the monsters that some people make them out to be if they are chambered in a well designed rifle. I wouldn't be scared of them until you've tried 'em. If you can track someone down that lives near you that will let you take a test run with some big boomers, it would sure help you make up your mind.

Hope this helps,
Canuck

I wonder though as a reloader if maybe i should get the 458lott , reason being as I glance at the hornady reloading manual i see that i could load a 350 rn bullet at 2300 fps this is only 150 fps faster then i have loaded some 45/70 loads and i see you can load the same bullet to 2700 fps and that should be a great load for alaska. Hell that may also be good for Africa. I dont have any reloading info for any 400 grain bullets but i would figure i could load the lott to 416 velocitys and then well above if i ever felt the need. And i do love that Ruger M77. Well alot to think about and again Thankyou to everyone for there input. Later Tanoose

Tanoose, There is but one caliber for all you need rifle. The .375 H&H is the most versitile of the bunch. Truly one rifle , which when the ammunition is choosen properly, can be used effectively anywhere game walks the face of the earth. My Alaskan Grizz and my African Buff's can attest to the one size fits all nature. Practice, practice practice with it, then the joy will last forever.

except for the fact the griz and the buffalo were about the same size.......... but we get the point.

Tanoose -

My advice is not to get too focused on recoil, and to get a rifle that is "enough gun", so that you will be excited but confident at the monent of truth.

With that said, the 416 Rem does have more recoil than the 375 H&H, but less than the 458 Lott. However, the 416 is not punishing if it is heavy enough and fitted with a premium recoil pad, especially if you avoid leaning into it from the bench. Just build up your rests until you ear sitting up straight. Off hand, it will not be a problem.

An AK-47

Lightweight, open sights, low recoil, fast follow-up shots, what more could you ask for?





Tim

I thougth Cz was coming out with the .404 along with the .505 gibbs. .404 should fit right in, but .416 bullet selection is probably better. That could change

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
You guys need to decide whether all this nostaglia for the 404 Jeffery is real or just a quasi-wildcat pursuit.

There is nothing wrong, per se, with the 404 Jeffery the "way it was."

If you want a 400 gr. bullet going 2400 fps then load your own or buy a Rigby, etc.

If I shoot a buff with a 400 gr. bullet going 2,800 fps which just happened to come out of a 404 Jeffery case, did I shoot it with a 404 Jeffery?

Will, you are exactly right, when it's "souped up" it is no longer a true .404 Jef, but some breed of wildcat for all practical purposes. I "souped it up" back in the '70's and the RWS ammo was hotter as I recall. Animals did't seem to detect the change, sure did hit the shoulder harder.

.416 Remington Mag....................


One shot - - - - - - - - one kill!!!!!!!!!