Cost of dip and pack and shipment of trophies

28 August 2014, 06:17

This ain't my first rodeo, but it is the first time I've had two CITES animals in the mix. And yes, it is Tanzania, but the receipt of my invoice from the dip/pack taxidermist was a real wakeup (literally, my blackberry is my alarm and I check e-mails as soon as it goes off).

Now this does include dip and pack, clearing export permits, veterinary inspections and crating, everything up to the actual shipping (shipping invoice to come soon).

What is reasonable for those services? Considering 10 animals, two of which are CITES animals.

I'd be interested in others' experience. I'll be glad to share what my invoice was, but didn't want to poison the well before hearing some responses.

Thanks.

28 August 2014, 06:56

Steve Ahrenberg

I don't know if the CITES stuff really make any difference. Your leaving out some pertinent information. Fullskins? shoulder capes and backskins?

I had a dip/pack to include shipping from CAR to France. 6600.00. 12 animals 7-8 were full skins including LDE and Bongo. Shits expensive as hell no matter where you shoot it or where you send it.

Good luck.

Steve

28 August 2014, 06:59

AnotherAZWriter

I had two cities animals in 2009 from TZ but I honestly don't remember dip/pack being high. I also hunted there in 2012 but don't recall it being high.

I do remember the shipping invoices being ridiculous, so you may want take some deep breaths.

28 August 2014, 07:19

Tim Herald

My bill from Moz for the same (up to shipping) from last year's hunt was $2600. That was lion skin and skull, buff skull, kudu and bushbuck skulls, and 1 zebra hide. I really thought that was steep seeing how all of that would fit in one fairly small crate and not a lot of paperwork had to be done for only 5 animals. In some of those places there aren't a lot of choices and they know it.

28 August 2014, 08:54

lavaca

Tim,

That's in the ballpark of what I expected, maybe double with double the animals. Maybe a bit more with an ele and a leopard.

But here's what I got. Over $10,000 to clear the export permits? For 10 animals, not counting shipping?

Other things that are strange. $1200 for a zebra. Look, I love zebra, but I shot that one as bait, why not save the skin. No way I'm going to pay $1,200 to import the skin and then $2,000 for my taxidermist to convert it into a rug. I've got more zebra rugs than I can deal with already. They can keep it for $1,200.

$3,500 for a leopard to just export? It's a nice leopard and I don't want to lose it, but my taxidermist charges $6,000 for a full body mount, tanning included. $3,500 to export, not counting shipping? Is that reasonable? If it is, I'll suck it up.

$1,900 for two buffalo skulls only? The plains game is not shocking but why is the hartebeest $200 more than the sable. That makes no sense. The fees on the elephant aren't shocking as there is a lot to ship.

Welcome everyone's thoughts.

28 August 2014, 09:07

lavaca

Bottom line is I have no choice, I know. It's just a bit more than expected and coming right at tax time.

28 August 2014, 09:14

Bill Collector

1200 for a zebra rug, 3500 for a leopard...and that does not include shipping? That is complete BS. Over past few years, I have noticed the gauging going up in a big way. Must be less hunters going to Africa so they are trying to make it up by dramatically raising the prices. For some reason, they think the money supply is endless for us, especially Americans. It really gets me pissed when I know I am being taken advantage of and basically being held hostage. I would ask them to substantiate the charges and push back on some of these items.

28 August 2014, 09:19

lavaca

If it were for a rug I'd be less exercised. This is dip and pack, period. I still have to pay shipping and my taxidermist to tan and mount.

28 August 2014, 09:25

Beretta682E

I personally think these charges are outrageous.

Export permits cost similar to trophy fees.

Mike

28 August 2014, 12:10

jkhunter

Those are the highest costs i have seen in Tanzania for Dip and pack ever,

someone is giving you one hell of a screw.

Who is organising the dip and pack?

My 2013 Tanzania Dip and Pack for 11 animals with 6 Full skins was under $3000 total excluding shipping

I even paid an extra $200 to have the Zebra skins Tanned in Arusha to protect them against hair slip. and that was included in the Total Bill of $3000

JK

28 August 2014, 12:46

shakari

quote:
Originally posted by lavaca:
Tim,

That's in the ballpark of what I expected, maybe double with double the animals. Maybe a bit more with an ele and a leopard.

But here's what I got. Over $10,000 to clear the export permits? For 10 animals, not counting shipping?

Other things that are strange. $1200 for a zebra. Look, I love zebra, but I shot that one as bait, why not save the skin. No way I'm going to pay $1,200 to import the skin and then $2,000 for my taxidermist to convert it into a rug. I've got more zebra rugs than I can deal with already. They can keep it for $1,200.

$3,500 for a leopard to just export? It's a nice leopard and I don't want to lose it, but my taxidermist charges $6,000 for a full body mount, tanning included. $3,500 to export, not counting shipping? Is that reasonable? If it is, I'll suck it up.

$1,900 for two buffalo skulls only? The plains game is not shocking but why is the hartebeest $200 more than the sable. That makes no sense. The fees on the elephant aren't shocking as there is a lot to ship.

Welcome everyone's thoughts.

Maybe I'm having a senior moment but I don't even begin to understand these charges.

Do you mean these charges are to clear the trophies in Tz and shipping costs and clearance charges in the USA are not included and you'll have to pay then as well?

If that is what you mean, then it's BS and you need to get other quotes and also perhaps ask your outfitter to clarify exactly who is charging you for what services.

28 August 2014, 14:52

leopards valley safaris

Holy Crap that's the most expensive Dip and pack I have ever heard about !!

$ 600 out of zim for 8 animals including croc and leopard paid $ 100 CITES separate so $ 800 excluding shipping.

That's 10 days ago

Best regards

28 August 2014, 16:32

Tim Herald

That's insane. DO you have a choice to switch companies?

28 August 2014, 16:42

bwanajay

You are getting bent over hoss!

28 August 2014, 16:49

TANZ-PH

quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
quote:
Originally posted by lavaca:
Tim,

That's in the ballpark of what I expected, maybe double with double the animals. Maybe a bit more with an ele and a leopard.

But here's what I got. Over $10,000 to clear the export permits? For 10 animals, not counting shipping?

Other things that are strange. $1200 for a zebra. Look, I love zebra, but I shot that one as bait, why not save the skin. No way I'm going to pay $1,200 to import the skin and then $2,000 for my taxidermist to convert it into a rug. I've got more zebra rugs than I can deal with already. They can keep it for $1,200.

$3,500 for a leopard to just export? It's a nice leopard and I don't want to lose it, but my taxidermist charges $6,000 for a full body mount, tanning included. $3,500 to export, not counting shipping? Is that reasonable? If it is, I'll suck it up.

$1,900 for two buffalo skulls only? The plains game is not shocking but why is the hartebeest $200 more than the sable. That makes no sense. The fees on the elephant aren't shocking as there is a lot to ship.

Welcome everyone's thoughts.

Maybe I'm having a senior moment but I don't even begin to understand these charges.

Do you mean these charges are to clear the trophies in Tz and shipping costs and clearance charges in the USA are not included and you'll have to pay then as well?

If that is what you mean, then it's BS and you need to get other quotes and also perhaps ask your outfitter to clarify exactly who is charging you for what services.

I'm confused too. If you are saying you were charged by the outfitter $1,000 per animal....just for "Trophy Handling" or "Dip, Pack & Crate" with NO SHIPPING; that is B.S.

What did they quote for this service in their Brochure & on their Contract???? I suppose they are free to charge whatever they like, but it should have been clearly noted in the contract at booking.

The Tanzania company I work for only charges: 1200. for 7 day hunt, 1700. for 14 day, and 2600. for full bag 21 day for Trophy Handling. This is for as many trophies as you can shoot, and includes all paperwork, export permits, dip, pack & crate. Everything but air-freight shipping & clearing of trophies in USA/home county, and freight/trucking charges in USA/home country.

28 August 2014, 16:53

shakari

quote:
Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

I'm confused too. If you are saying you were charged by the outfitter $1,000 per animal....just for "Trophy Handling" or "Dip, Pack & Crate" with NO SHIPPING; that is B.S.

What did they quote for this service in their Brochure & on their Contract???? I suppose they are free to charge whatever they like, but it should have been clearly noted in the contract at booking.

The Tanzania company I work for only charges: 1200. for 7 day hunt, 1700. for 14 day, and 2600. for full bag 21 day for Trophy Handling. This is for as many trophies as you can shoot, and includes all paperwork, export permits, dip, pack & crate. Everything but air-freight shipping & clearing of trophies in USA/home county, and freight/trucking charges in USA/home country.

That's about what I would have expected and in fact there is no 'clearance' as such at the Tz end of things.

Clearance happens at country of destination.

28 August 2014, 17:11

Jerry Huffaker

we do hundreds of safaris, that is ridiculous. They are trying to skin you, I've never heard of anything anywhere close to that.

28 August 2014, 19:15

lavaca

Thanks for all the replies. I should have waited until I discussed it with them before raising a stink here. I apparently misunderstood the shipping documentation.

28 August 2014, 19:22

shakari

quote:
Originally posted by lavaca:
Thanks for all the replies. I should have waited until I discussed it with them before raising a stink here. I apparently misunderstood the shipping documentation.

Does it by any chance include shipping and US clearance etc?

28 August 2014, 19:42

TANZ-PH

quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
quote:
Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

I'm confused too. If you are saying you were charged by the outfitter $1,000 per animal....just for "Trophy Handling" or "Dip, Pack & Crate" with NO SHIPPING; that is B.S.

What did they quote for this service in their Brochure & on their Contract???? I suppose they are free to charge whatever they like, but it should have been clearly noted in the contract at booking.

The Tanzania company I work for only charges: 1200. for 7 day hunt, 1700. for 14 day, and 2600. for full bag 21 day for Trophy Handling. This is for as many trophies as you can shoot, and includes all paperwork, export permits, dip, pack & crate. Everything but air-freight shipping & clearing of trophies in USA/home county, and freight/trucking charges in USA/home country.

That's about what I would have expected and in fact there is no 'clearance' as such at the Tz end of things.

Clearance happens at country of destination.

Correct. Basically, all the trophies leave the camp end of the season and transported to the company HQ. They are checked by Wildlife Dept, paperwork done, then dipped, packed in crate(s). Then shipped to your home country by air freight. If in USA they arrive at airport, and need to pass inspection by USF&W, Customs & USDA. Usually a Broker handles this. Sometimes the client's Taxidermist can clear it himself. If a broker alone does it, then the crates will usually be trucked to the tannery or taxidermist, at clients expense.

That's about how it works.

Seems totally ridiculous even if shipping was included! You say 10 animals but only mentioned(leopard, zebra, 2 buffalo SKULLS Only, 1 Hartebeest). You also said something about an elephant (??)

Sometimes the outfitter pays for shipping up front...sometimes not. I'd have a long talk with this outfitter if I were you, and find out what is what.

There was a problem six months ago, where TRA (Tanzania Revenue Authority) was attempting to charge a huge tax fee on all trophies at the airport, prior to shipping...but (as far as I know), this was stopped and cleared up. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

28 August 2014, 20:18

fujotupu

quote:
There was a problem six months ago, where TRA (Tanzania Revenue Authority) was attempting to charge a huge tax fee on all trophies at the airport, prior to shipping...but (as far as I know), this was stopped and cleared up. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

The "huge tax" was a VAT surcharge of 18% of the trophy fee and yes, they were told to go fly a kite, the biggest they could find!

28 August 2014, 21:32

boarkiller

Dip&pack is getting ridiculous, I've seen extra charge now even for transport of trophies to taxidermist.
If we don't throw fit, people will take advantage of us until we throw fit and quit taking trophies home or stop going hunting there in ever decreasing numbers.
Killing the Golden Goose comes to my mind as of right now.

" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...

Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies...
Only fools hope to live forever
“ Hávamál”

28 August 2014, 21:32

TANZ-PH

quote:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
quote:
There was a problem six months ago, where TRA (Tanzania Revenue Authority) was attempting to charge a huge tax fee on all trophies at the airport, prior to shipping...but (as far as I know), this was stopped and cleared up. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I was told by my company manager that they were originally trying to charge a tax of 90% of the trophy fees!!! But it is fortunately a dead issue now.

The "huge tax" was a VAT surcharge of 18% of the trophy fee and yes, they were told to go fly a kite, the biggest they could find!

28 August 2014, 21:40

shakari

Here in Portugal when we import from outside the EUSSR, we get hit for 23% vat on the cost of the item, the cost of the shipping AND the cost of damn packaging!

29 August 2014, 08:35

lavaca

Like I say, I'm sorry to have raised a stink before I got to the bottom of it. It looks like I misinterpreted what was meant to be a statement regarding the "value" of the shipment, for shipment purposes and based upon what Shakari says, perhaps VAT issues in other countries (We don't have a VAT in the US -- don't give the Democrats any ideas). It looked like an invoice and I thought I owed it. I should have known better because they didn't give any payment instructions.

The real bill was much more in line with what I expected. Quite reasonable actually. Sent my wire today.

Again, sorry to have raised this stink. It was unnecessary if I'd just been able to hold my water.

29 August 2014, 08:42

crbutler

The dip and pack that I have had to pay in Tanz was about $2K as I recalled for a full bag hunt, Lion, Leopard, 3 buff, essentially everything but elephant.

It seems that Tanz, Zim, and Zambia have reasonable dip and pack fees. South Africa, on the other hand, the dip/pack, courier, etc. in ZA ended up being roughly as much as the TF's for 7 animals, and more than 2x my Tanz fees. Next time I go to ZA (if I do) I will get the dip/pack quoted beforehand, they can't all be highway robbers.

29 August 2014, 08:44

lavaca

Can I delete this post? I jumped the gun. It's not a problem.

29 August 2014, 09:17

lavaca

Jdollar:

Stop! It wasn't a rip off. It was a misunderstanding. Problem solved.

By the way, in my opinion Tanzania is the best destination in Africa and that's why I keep going back.

Would like to hunt in the Caprivi Strip, however.

29 August 2014, 09:21

jdollar

i understand. that's why i deleted my post. now if they can get a handle on the charter fees, that would be a good thing.

29 August 2014, 09:58

lavaca

jdollar:

Don't talk to me about charter fees.

The elephant that was the subject of the last diatribe was shot on the last day of the safari at last light. He rolled down a hill into a deep korongo at the far end of the concession. We'd been hunting all day and none of the crew had had a chance to stop to eat. We couldn't get a car within 2 kilometers.

We couldn't get the elephant out that night. We had to feed the crew. We missed our commercial flight out of Mbeya. Charter to Dar was the only way to go.

Nice flight on a Cessna Caravan with only two passengers and one pilot. Lots of room. Great views. Full moon. Frankly, worth every penny, but it was dear.

29 August 2014, 22:59

fujotupu

quote:
Originally posted by jdollar:
i understand. that's why i deleted my post. now if they can get a handle on the charter fees, that would be a good thing.

Being on the ground and a part of the hunting industry, I have to agree with you on charter costs being a rip off.

Unfortunately, if you want a private plane ride to a destination where the commercial charters don't land, they come with a price tag and beyond the outfitter's control.

At times you could be lucky to share the cost if there is an outgoing client but that's about the only reprieve you'd ever get.

I have said it before and will say it again: there is a shitload of money available to the charter companies from the main gold mining consortium and the more recent oil and gas exploration groups.

Remember the old saying, "money talks, bullshit walks".

29 August 2014, 23:56

jkhunter

Charter flights, Ooooo now that's a topic that has hurt every one of us,would be a scary sum to add up the last few years charter costs

JK

30 August 2014, 01:45

jdollar

everyone( hunters and outfitters) complain about charter costs. it seems to me the situation is ripe for multiple outfitters to get together and form a charter company. they could undercut the present competition( which everyone knows is gouging the public), make a small( maybe medium) profit and entice more hunters to Tz through lower overall safari costs. just a thought......

30 August 2014, 04:32

AR MAN

jdollar spot on and I have thought about this idea myself, as a business why would you want to give any profit to others if you could do the work yourself? Being able to lower costs in some way would help entice the modest hunter even if it's a small amount.

30 August 2014, 08:54

fujotupu

quote:
Originally posted by AR MAN:
jdollar spot on and I have thought about this idea myself, as a business why would you want to give any profit to others if you could do the work yourself? Being able to lower costs in some way would help entice the modest hunter even if it's a small amount.

Why don't several of you gentlemen get together and take the plunge by setting up a charter company in this neck of the woods and stand by your suggestions?

The US Administration might even give you a helping hand seeing it quite recently gave the "thumbs up" for American investment in this country.
Just imagine, a super discount to hunters where the charter company might make a marginal profit or "break even" and charge slightly discounted rates to the big spenders and still walk away with a handsome profit; a "win-win" situation no?

30 August 2014, 09:05

jdollar

oops, i forget the age old argument( put forth by TZ outfitters and obviously true) about how much more expensive it is to operate an aircraft in Tz than it is to operate the same aircraft in Zim, Namibia, Moz, etc., etc., etc.....of course, that is the same reason that certainly justify $3000/day daily rates. it is truly amazing that everything needed to run any business there is just damnably expensive compared to other African countries. must be the taxes and bribes that don't exist elsewhere

30 August 2014, 09:18

fujotupu

quote:
Originally posted by jdollar:
oops, i forget the age old argument( put forth by TZ outfitters and obviously true) about how much more expensive it is to operate an aircraft in Tz than it is to operate the same aircraft in Zim, Namibia, Moz, etc., etc., etc.....of course, that is the same reason that certainly justify $3000/day daily rates. it is truly amazing that everything needed to run any business there is just damnably expensive compared to other African countries. must be the taxes and bribes that don't exist elsewhere

And the answer to that is to prove them wrong and expose them to the world.

30 August 2014, 09:24

Beretta682E

quote:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
quote:
Originally posted by jdollar:
oops, i forget the age old argument( put forth by TZ outfitters and obviously true) about how much more expensive it is to operate an aircraft in Tz than it is to operate the same aircraft in Zim, Namibia, Moz, etc., etc., etc.....of course, that is the same reason that certainly justify $3000/day daily rates. it is truly amazing that everything needed to run any business there is just damnably expensive compared to other African countries. must be the taxes and bribes that don't exist elsewhere

And the answer to that is to prove them wrong and expose them to the world.

Give the end of season hunts offered in Tanzania - the market has spoken.

I am too scared of little planes in africa to even consider a charter. Secondly, I am too cheap.

Mike

31 August 2014, 02:27

jdollar

quote:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
quote:
Originally posted by jdollar:
oops, i forget the age old argument( put forth by TZ outfitters and obviously true) about how much more expensive it is to operate an aircraft in Tz than it is to operate the same aircraft in Zim, Namibia, Moz, etc., etc., etc.....of course, that is the same reason that certainly justify $3000/day daily rates. it is truly amazing that everything needed to run any business there is just damnably expensive compared to other African countries. must be the taxes and bribes that don't exist elsewhere

And the answer to that is to prove them wrong and expose them to the world.

i have chartered planes in 4 African countries. comparing cost( for similar planes)/hours of flight involved, Tz costs were a least 1/3 higher than the next most expensive country. simple fact is nowhere else have i found a charter operator than charged $600-700/hr for a Cessna 206. i haven't had to charter for the last 4-5 years. maybe things have worsened elsewhere and costs are now more "equal"...