quote:

D99 needs to take his foot out his mouth and apologize to everyone for opening this post.

I don't think this post was inappropriate. I suppose you could use a .22 long rifle on an elephant. When i made a post about taking my .300WM instead of my .375 as my light rifle, most everybody agreed the .375 was a more appropriate choice.

I have no problem with bow hunting, however in dangerous game country, I like a nice hunk of wood and steel in my hands. I doubt two arrows over that elephants head would have turned that charge!

I do agree with you however on the sanctity and respect for living animals from mice to elephants.

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Mark- I do not think your post is inappropriate.You did not make the ignorant and all encompassing statement ,"i don't like bowhunting" and then paint all bowhunters as irresponsble slob hunters who take bad shots and wound too much game.

I know not every bowhunter is a slobhunter.

But in reading the research above I gotta beleive that a huge percentage of them are.

I hope those that are good ethical hunters will take the time to train the rest.

I think I like this one the best;

Gayle Wescott:

- "56% of hits on broadside shots resulted in unrecovered deer".



- "81% of quartering away shots resulted in retrieval of the animal".

I belong to the Elmer Keith school of rifle medicine.

I need complete passthroughs broken shoulders, and for the heart, lungs, or spine to be destroyed.


I will say this, one very effective but very risky shot I saw a guy make was to the femoral artery in the back of an elks leg. It ran about 30 yards and was stone dead.

Kind of chewed up that back quarter though. Not a really good shot for an animal you plan on eating.

I agree 100%. This is the stupidest, most insulting dumbass thing I've ever read. Are there really still "hunters" who are so clueless about bowhunting. I simply cannot believe so much simpleton comments are being posted here. In 2007 no less. A

That elk ass shot (Lousiana heart shot) was with a bow.

I left that out unintentionally.

But you know it worked. Just chewed up a lot of good eating.

D99,, you have done nothing but a disservice to the sport of hunting by your posts. I feel that this forum is a great to place to recieve advise and knowledge. Not a forum to slam a a certain group. The hunters here have been very helpful to me as a group and I thank them for their sharing of information. So you do not like bowhunting,,, then stay away from the bows and stick to your huge caliber weapons. I would also reccomend for you not to put your post on the AR Bow forum! I bow hunt,, and I gun hunt.. If I went for buffalo, elephant, or hippo my bow would stay in the closet and a 416 Rigby would be hung on my shoulder. I hunt plains game in Africa with my bow and hunt with others that do as well. I will put our record up against any group of gun hunters with respcet to lost and wounded game. I think our record would be similar with guns if we used them. We as a group will wait and make sure of a responsible shot regardless of the weapon. You won't see us shooting a bow at a zebra at 60 yards anymore than you will see us shoot at a zebra running at 350 yards in brush with a 375H&H, which by thew way will be my next rifle purchase. Picking a fight with "bowhunters" in general because you do not like the group shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of the sport and was totally unresponsible. I use enough gun,, and I use enough bow,,,drwes

D99,

This isn't a criticism but I can't for the life of me figure why you would kill the baboon with a knife. I understand that it needed to be finished off and dead is dead. Perhaps I'm just delicate but the thought would never even cross my mind to use a knife with a perfectly good rifle in hand.

Mark

quote:

Yep, a 350 yard shot on a varmint isn't probably the most ethical thing in the world either. I only pulled the trigger once, and hit him in the spine. When we got up to him he couldn't move but wasn't dead. so he got the sharp end of a knife through the heart.

I was going to comment on this statement, but in the interest of sanity and civility, I am declining.

D99 I saw your posts on nitroexpress,more or less cussing AR,because everyone doesn't agree with you take on bow hunting, and I simply do not agree with everything you say.

However, I do see no reason for a special season for any fire arm, or bow. I say choose your weapon, at the begining of the season, and buy your license for that weapon for the year! All seasons combined for all weapons, no bow season, or muzzloder season, just a HUNTING SEASON.

The problem is not with the weapon used, it is with the user, and it makes no difference what he hunts with! An unethical hunter, will be unethical, no matter what he uses to hunt with. Profeciency tests with your choice would make far more difference, in the wound rate, than seperate seasons!

1. You can't legislate/impose ethics
2. Sometimes $h!t happens, and it's easier to clean up with a firearm vs archery equipment.

No one here can honestly say they have never wounded an animal or made a bad decision? Can they?

I prefer to hunt with my style and appreciate it when people don't tell me how to hunt.

I reciprocate by not telling others how to hunt. Even if I don't agree with them.

Does everyone feel as strong when it is a crossbow?

Well, I don't care how the arrow is launched. If you are hunting plains game on a fenced ranch, or in an area that is GAURANTEED not to have any dangerous game walking about, archery is just fine, in fact most of it is done from blinds and at fairly close range.

If there are jumbo, buff or lions walking about, I'm just afraid I'm not "Man enough" to walk around with a bundle of sharp sticks. I
want a stopper.

I had my ass chewed out for carrying my rifle on the strap my first day hunting as we approached a bait. I didn't see anything lying in wait, but I guess those are the ones that get you.

I am not a bow hunter as I could not take the time to master another type of weapon. I have no problem with the hunting of plains game by responsible bow or rifle hunters. When it comes to dangerous game I have second thoughts. DG is usually very large elephant, buffalo, hippo or black rhino. It takes much more penetration, sometimes through very heavy bones that even the best solid bullets have trouble penetrating. IMO a bow hunter is more likely to wound one of these animals than a rifle hunter. That leads to a dangerous follow up where the bow hunter is as useless as a white dress at a Hollywood wedding. The problem is often compounded because the bow hunter doesn't want the rifle to be used. If it is, then the animal can no longer be counted as a bow kill, consequently sometimes unnecessary risks are taken.

465H&H

D99, your post reads as a uneducated slob shooter, and not as a hunter.
A hunter has the high respect of the animal he hunts, weather with a gun, bow or rock! All weapons have limits and each hunter has his limits with each weapon.
eyedoc, I agree 100% about how stupid this is and how he should apologize. The anti's love posts like his and it has no value to the hunting community.

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I really tried to stay out of this, but given the last post by D99 I had to jump in. Anyone, I repeat anyone can find statistics to support their view, no matter how misguided.

However, Im not going to comment on that, Im going to comment on hunters attacking hunters and D99 has done a fine job of it. He has successfully driven a wedge between every bowhunter on here and himself.

PETA should be contacting you for doing a better job of anti-hunting propoganda than they do themselves.

As a side note, I am mainly a bowhunter and when I hunted in Zimbabwe last time, my PH commented that I was the ONLY hunter they had that season that didn't miss anything and killed everything with one shot. Mind you, I was hunting with a rifle on that trip.

When he asked how I was able to shoot so well, I told him, "Im a bowhunter, we only get one shot so it has to be right"

Hugh

The research you are citing is over twenty years old.It has no more application today than any other technology from that same era.What kind of cell reception were you getting in 1985?How fast was your internet connection?Things change.

Most bowhunters today shoot equipment so superior to the stuff being used in 1985 that comparisons are not at all relevant.I have shot completely through cape buffalo, asiatic water buffalo and giraffe several times.

Another point I would like to make is that others such as Tony Tompkinson who participated in this same study came up with very different conclusions than those you cite.If the results were so bad why do you think that RSA opened its doors to bowhunters?

The last point I would like to make is that I will be quite happy to shoot with you for as much money as you care to bring with you.I will shoot at standing broadside targets at twenty to thirty yards ( my self imposed limit) and you can take your shots at running targets at three hundred and fifty yards ( your admittedly acceptable shot).The looser of this match can post the results here on the forum.

As mentioned before, the research you are basing your arguments on is very, very outdated. Modern equipment has made vast improvements in the archery world which has resulted in higher recovery rates and improved accuracy in the hands of the average archer.

One other point. Horace Gore is not exactly what I would call a reputable person to quote on this issue. His dislike of archery hunting is widely documented and he has used his position and reputation on many occasions to show that. Posting a quote about his thoughts on the issue is like asking a Democrat to comment on what they think of a Republican. The outcome is far too predictable.

It's obvious that you don't care for bowhunting or bowhunters. That's fine with me. However, you are not doing the hunting community in general any favors by running your mouth like this. Any asshole can type a few sentences on a public forum then stand back and watch the feeding frenzy. You've certainly got the pot stirring now but what have you or any other members here gained from it? Nothing.

By the way, I too would like to throw my hat in the ring for a piece of the action on the shooting contest.

Ethics is as ethics does…..

You can just as easily take unethical shots with a rifle as you can a bow. A wounded animal is a wounded animal no matter what you’ve wounded them with. I am a gun hunter through and through, but I have hunted with a bow as well.

The only gripe I have with archery hunters is that some come off as arrogant when referring to their gun toting brothers, as if we are not as sporting as they are because we don’t always have to “close the distance.â€

I know a guy that is about to go after Brown Bear with a bow. When bragging to me about his nearing adventure (an attempt to impress me with his bravery for taking such an animal with only stick and string) I asked what kind of “rifle†his guide would be carrying.

I’m not stereotyping all archers in with this guy, but when speaking of dangerous game with a bow I believe it to be a “stunt huntâ€. When the guide has to stop or finish your quarry for you doesn’t that take something away from it?

Just me two cents…..

Now I have a different view .... I have hunted with bow and crossbow for 25 + years ... 95% of shots are taken from 5 yards out to 20 yards .

The thrill I get is being close to the game I pursue ... Hearing about 350 yard shots doesn't impress me at all ! .... That is more like target shooting ! When you shoot an animal at 350 yards it has no idea you are even there !

We put down varmints at long distance because they are a nuisance to the landowner and we have to do some maintence work to maintain hunting permission on the property ... but I don't have any less respect for that animal .

But the big game we persue in our area ( moose , deer , bear etc. ) are taken with archery tackle at close range !

You need to be a stealthy , skilled hunter to get big game animals in our area in to 5 to 20 yards .. and some end up only an arms length away ...



In my opinion rifle hunting with large caliber at great distance doesn't require actual hunting skills .... you just need a good supply of game animals ( which Africa supply's ) , and you need to be a skilled shooter !

So hat's off to you long range shooters .... not my cup of tea ... and I have seen many many videos of bitched long range shots that wounded the target prey ...

Persoanlly , I believe I have less chance of missing a vital shot with archery tackle under 20 yards then someone does at 350 yards with a rifle ...

I read a bit about the Maasai .... now there are a brave bunch !

quote:

Maasai warriors chase lions and force them to face the hunter , some lions are taken with only spears

I have read many posts on this forum and can tell that the majority of it's members are eithical big game hunters ... I respect and enjoy their hunting stories and misc adventures ..

But after reading D99's post and reply .... he sounds like he has more money that hunting skills ...

And as far as the opinion of some

quote:

If your weapon can't stop a charge, whats the point of using it at all on DG

Well my opinion is ... you need to be a very skilled hunter to stalk within killing range of dangerous game .... it has been done many times ... archery buffalo , archery elephant , archery lions , archery grizzly bears etc. etc.

Anyway ..... you can argue the point for hours .... my thrill is being close !! ... the adrenaline rush I get from close encounters is what keeps me going back !

I got this photo of a mature coyote at 5 yards , armed only with a camera and a good West wind !



Enjoy your time in the field doing your thing and I will do the same .... but please don't bash other hunters choice of weapon , just because you may not be effective with it !

How about this for a nice rule of thumb:

"Don't bash the hunter for his choice of weapon. Bash him/her/transgender californian for his poor choice in how he uses the weapon."

If we don't police ourselves, someone else will.

I can't speak for the rest of the world but here in my neck of the woods the argument that the gun hunter is more ethical than the bow hunter want fly. Simply because it's the same guys all bunched up together, one month they're flinging arrows the next month they're slinging lead. I can think of only two bow hunters that don't hunt with a gun later on in the year.

Some have as much regard for the animals they hunt as they do for a blade of grass they step on. Some hold ethics to such a high standard that they could easily fall in the same namby pamby group as the anti's. Most rest somewhere in the middle where we do what we can to make a clean kill but at the same time we are fully aware that what we are doing is going to both scare and hurt the animal to death.

I took up bow hunting for awhile but it wasn't so I could get close, it was so I could spend more time out htere hunting. I live for hunting up close and for me it's way more exiting to hit a deer at 20 yds with a rifle, it's just plain insipid to do the same with an arrow.