I have a friend that has a unique way to handle tips. He does this on everything from the waitres at a local restaurant to his PH in Africa. On the first day he hands his PH 50% of what he believes would be a good tip. He tells his PH he will get the rest of the tip on the last day.
He often tips 60 to 70% more on the last day.
He claims this almost always makes for better service.
What are your thoughts on this?

I have heard of guys doing this on offshore fishing trips but not hunting. I like to think that whoever I hunt with will give it 100% without an up-front tip, but I guess you never know.

I jokingly told a PH once that if I shot the extra animals he recommended I would not be able to tip him. He paused a moment before telling me that my getting my trophies was the most important thing.

I wouldn't. But I do give a ballpark of what to expect if everthing goes well. BTW, I tip a lot more than the average bear.

Jeff

His method constitutes implicit bribery and would be insulting to any self-respecting recipient.

Also, what can he do if his experience turns out to be awful? He would then have no option to withhold his tip, having already given 50% up front.

This guy just doesn't get it, IMHO.

Seems to be a backhanded compliment of sorts. Rather insulting to a proficient PH. I want someone to work for me because they want to. Akin to a waiter or waitress asking me if I want change instead of taking the money and returning with the change.


Dutch

Just sittin' in the gutter sluggin' rats, Ma.

Maybe things have changed that much in the 16 or so years since I worked for tips, but it used to be that you got paid for doing your job, you got a tip for going above and beyond.

I find it kind of funny that in such an expensive endeavor tips for what was already a very pricey item are almost expected?? Don't misunderstand me, I will tip when I go, but it will not be predetermined, it will be decided by the quality of service delivered.

I think it would be nice if outfitters included what they thought was an acceptable tip in the price of a safari. It seems to me that hunters from the US have changed the whole program where tipping is concerned. As most of you know tipping in Europe and by Europeans is not nearly as widespread or lucrative. Everyone also knows US citizens tend to tip well even upon receiving poor service. I am thankful for the opportunity to hunt Africa and plan to continue as long as I can but Extravagant tipping is not an option and I don't want to disappoint anyone so it would be nice to know what is expected in advance. Yes I know this has been beaten beyond death but people still get wrapped around the axle over it.

My rule of thumb for a dangerous game hunt, if the service of the PH is above average is $100.00 per day. Does anyone think that's out of line?

Interesting thread...

I still planning my hunt and have never been to Africa before so I'm a novice but I wouldn't think of "tipping" a guy before I know what kind of service he gives...

My "general" rule of thumb for a tip is one extra day of the daily rate. Simply, I'm paying $500 a day for a plains game hunt then I tip the PH $500. The camp staff, trackers and don't forget the skinner is extra.

If you are going on a 21 day DG safari, is the normal to pay 10% of trophy fees and day rate ? I have heard that i standard in zim ? That is going to be a lot of money .

I dare say there is no "standard" anywhere. A tip is a gesture of your appreciation toward the person who has provided you with great service. If money is no object and you had a great time then roll out the cash, I just hope your not the guy ahead of me on a hunt!

I guided DG and PG hunts for a number of years so maybe i can give some input from the flip side of the discussion. Tipping can be a very contentious issue because there is no "standard" and hunters come from many different cultures that have differing opinions and views on tipping.

One thing i can say is that i would be very offended if someone had given me 50% upfront and used the balance as a carrot. Any true professional in any industry will always give his/her best and giving me money upfront insinuates that i will make allowances/do favours/bend rules or give special treatment to the person concerned. If they are already paying a couple of hundred or even thousand $$$ per day the client should get exactly what every client gets and that is the best the company has to offer. PH's hunting free range game dont "keep" animals aside for clients that tip well nor do they have secret areas that they only let the big$$$$ guys hunt in. A tip is a gesture given in goodwill and in appreciation of the extra mile that someone may have gone for you. What is the extra mile? Well how long is a piece of string?? Often exceptional trophies or getting most of the species that you were hunting is as a result of good planning, hard work and going the extra mile.

About the worst habit a client can have is constantly talking about money and counting every penny while on safari. The staff can usually see these guys a mile away and have them worked out in the first few days. They want the biggest, the best, discount, specials etc and then when they give you some corny cap at the end of the hunt they also want a huge smile and thanks from the recipient. Tipping will always be a part of hunting in Africa but it should never be guaranteed nor forced onto clients - it is a gratuitous payment and should remain that way.

One last point, you may feel that a waitress is poorly paid and the tipping is justified. An average PH on a plainsgame hunt will earn $100/day. His average day will start at 05H00 and end at 22H00, no lunch break/tea breaks in his day. Every minute you are with him he is in work mode and while you are having a siesta he is probably in the skinning shed or doing some paperwork. His daily rate is $5.80 an hour. Kind of gives it a bit more perspective!

A bit more, i have been tipped everything from nothing to $250/day. Some of my best hunts were with "simple" people who saved for years, enjoyed every moment and tipped conservatively but you know that the $100 dollars that they gave you was as good a gesture staright from the heart of a man that gave as good as he could. Big tippers are not necessarily a big hit with the PH, after a few days in the bush your true character will shine through regardless of how much or little money you have.

Scott well said

Scott, you touched all relevant points. Well said.

Scott makes some some very good points there, but I'll add by saying that tips vary from country to country, area to area, company to company and camp to camp.

At one end of the scale you have something like a South African set up, where the client may be looked after by less than a handful of staff, perhaps a cook, a maid, and a tracker who also does the skinning and at the other end of spectrum you might find an area in Tanzania for example, that has a staff of maybe close to twenty. - In the SA based set up, wages are low and so a modest tip might go a long way, and at the other end of the spectrum the cost of living and salaries etc are considerably higher......

Then add on the fact that there are some unscrupulous set ups that simply don't pay their staff a salary and they are working for tips alone. - There's also some of the high priced venues who recommend extremely high amounts for tips, simply because it's a high dollar set up......

You can also add on the fact that some cultures simply either don't tip at all or give very modest amounts..... tips are never easy and rarely properly addressed in books etc. Even many PHs, when asked by the client will just shrug and mutter, 'whatever you think' - which isn't really a lot of help to anyone.

My advice would be to ask your outfitter about this subject whilst you're making your booking and I guess it's probably (at least to some degree) of taking the attitude of, 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do'

Another aspect to remember is how you give the tip. - The staff will think a lot more of you if you give each tip to each staff member personally with a few words of thanks, than if you just hand over a bundle of notes to one person and tell him to spread it around.

If I had a PH that would give me better service that way I would consider that a total lack of character..A tip is a gift and nothing more..

A good PH gives the same service to every one in his camp, 100% of the time, under any conditions...

If I ever found out that one of the companies I rep for gave better service due the the size of the tip I would have to drop him like a hot rock. end of story.

I have always thought the best way to get around this tip to PH thing would be to just add that to the price of the hunt, and be done with it, but many disagree with that.

Steve,
I agree with you in principle, but over the years I have found if the hunter tips each of the boys himself, he always does it wrong and the money is not in the pecking order and the camp can go to hell in a handbasket and in a hurry, cooks quit, trackers are pissed that the laundry boy got the same as they did and so fourth..I saw one camp totally dissolve some many years ago over just this thing.

I would prefer the PH to sort it all out in the proper amounts as to camp status, put it in envelopes and then if he wants the hunter to hand them out thats fine, but never let the hunter do this unless he has that knowledge, most do not.

The other thing that disrupts safari camps is one hunter tipping an enormous amount and the following hunter tips very little or not as much. This causes camp tension and needs to sorted out before hand by a good PH..

If it were only as simple as one would think, but staff being what they are with a tribal mentality and a different background than ours, takes some marketing genious on behalf of the PH to keep them content. I have observed that their concern for the good of each other is sorely lacking.

If a client gives me any money before the start of a hunt I will just return it to him. I agree with Ray that a tip is a gift. I have received tips in hard cash or things like knives, spotlights or scope rings. It is a gift to remember a person by. If I do get money I buy something as a keepsake to remember that person

Ray, to solve the problem with tips to the staff. Clients always asks me how to tip the staff, I will give them some pointers so he can decide. Once he made a decision I help him to split up the money and help him to give the correct amount to everybody. Staff enjoy it to receive their tip from the hunter.

Ray,

I think you misunderstood me...... I'm all for the PH giving advice as to who gets what.... but it should go straight from the client to the staff member. That way, the staff see they get the same amount that the client gives and none gets 'lost' along the way.......

Last time in Limpopo we were five hunters in camp.
The outfitter told us to put the tips to the staff in a pot.
We then counted the money, the outfitter made up a list over how much everyone should have.
He then called all the staff to the campfire place and called them up by name one by one and I as the oldest hunter give each one the tip, shake their hand and said thank you for a good safari.
A little sermonial, but for us the hunters, this was a nice way to show our apreciation for a job well done.

A bit surpricing, the one who got the biggest tip was the always smiling chef and camp boss, a big beautiful black woman

You are correct in one aspect, it is a unique way to handle tipping and I am sure most folks remember him. My first impression if someone presented the tip in that manner, especially if I was his waiter or in a service type situation is I would immediately think of him as an ASS! He would have to then prove himself otherwise. If in Africa I go through my Ph and allow him to help me distribute the tips at the conclusion of my safari. I will be fishing in Mexico all next week and the expected tip is pretty much set by the outfitter. We were told we each should tip the guide 20 dollars per day or 40 dollars a boat and we pay it each day because we rotate guides. Now,,, is that a tip? Or is that payment? I consider it guide fee and if the guide works really hard I generally up the "Tip". Every situation can be different but if I gave the guide 10 bucks in the morning and told him I would give him the rest at the end of the day if he did good I may better be a good swimmer!

I hunted with Neil Barnard of NB Safaris, in RSA-- Limpopo Region. It was my first trip, but not my last. I was actually guided ny Neil Barnard himself and at the end of it all, he would not accept a tip. He said it's not right for the outfitter himself to receive a tip. He could have taken the $$$ and I would have never been the wiser. It was a perfect trip and I tipped the others in camp.
I am going back to hunt with Neil in '09
www.nbsafaris.co.za

I can't go wrong.

Trophyman.

I have always budgeted my tip before I planned the safari or I could have never afforded to go. It was to me, as explained many times on these forums, an absolutely expected part of the safari and it should not be a niggardly amount. I have always worked for wages (and very rarely made over $150 per day in all my life) so any safari has always been a significent undertaking for me and is why I no longer go as retirement allows little opportunity to accumulate extra dollars with the rising cost of living and the rising cost of safaris. PH's don't make very much and I'm sure tips are a valued part of their earnings but very few of them were drafted into the business and they seem to enjoy what they do so good luck to them. I have never seen any that didn't think all American hunters were wealthy and had very deep pockets. It's a shame that you are expected to pay extra for normal service. I have never in my life recieved a tip and only on two occaisons can I remember getting a modest bonus at yearend.

I usually on every safari have a "celebration" tip in mid safari to the staff. This is done to celebrate taking something special such as an elephant, a cat or a buffalo. Forty or fifty bucks spread around at that point makes for a very happy camp and is truly appreciated. At safari conclusion I sit down with the PH and work out the staff tips. I have found that the tip to the PH is less awkward if it is placed in a card with a short note of appreciation rather than the old wad of bills handshake. Tip in money not gifts. This is how a PH makes his living. A GPS doesn't pay his bills!

That is true, but if he wantd a GPS he would eventually have to go and fork over his own money for it anyway so it evens out a lot of the time.

If you want to give a ph a gift instead of a tip ask him what he needs before hand. We can find gadgets here but not always what we need. Reloading equipment comes at a high price and is very much valued.

I am very sorry if i am going to piss on someones battery but i believe you employ the best people with the right attitude and you pay them well that is part of your expenses and you cost the product you sell accordingly. they should not expect a tip for good service its their job and what is expected of them because that is the culture of my company.they smile every day because they are well paid and their jobs give them satisfaction. this makes my service level very high and consistant.

i trade in an industry with low margins so i struggle to understand why restuarants that runs on a GP of 60% and up can not pay proper salaries and expects their clients to pay their staffs salaries.

every year i order 12 pocket knifes that i engrave with my company logo and details and i hand this out as gifts IMO money gets blown on alcohol and is forgotten the next day.last year whe hunted mountains and my guide didn,t have binos so after the hunt i gave hin my old one since then im everything in his eyes and he can put it to good use in the future.

i dont believe in tips but in good motivated staff gives great service and that culture gets imbedded by ph and outfitter not by the client
good staff stays bad staff gets fired

quote:

Originally posted by Safari-Hunt:
If you want to give a ph a gift instead of a tip ask him what he needs before hand. We can find gadgets here but not always what we need. Reloading equipment comes at a high price and is very much valued.

That's interesting. I've was suprised by how many who carry rifles around for a living share reloading equipment with friends and relatives. One told me how he took his dies to a business who rented access to their reloading bench to customers. Once it was explained to me how expensive reloading equipment is in Africa I understood.
I just sent a set of .425 Westley Richards dies to a young hunter the other day. He wasn't even my PH, but was in the same camp joined up with us for a day and took me out one night simply because he wanted to. Since the .425 seems to be on the custom die list I just grabbed the first set I found at a gunshow.The idea of helping someone in their career even in a tiny way appealed to me, and helping a shooter even more.
I would like to use this approach, but it requires knowing what your PH needs in advance. That might not be that hard if you hunt with the same outfit all the time.

I had a PH I knew only through AR (not even the one I was going to hunt with) ask me to bring a bunch of trail timers to him. He ordered them on the internet and had them sent to me. Upon delivery, he asked me to watch him set up leopard baits, etc. before my safari. It was a fun experience and I made a friend for life.

I've taken stuff and left it for pick up at the (sadly burned) Sea Cliff, with Louis at Afton House and even at a hamburger place in Harare. I'll continue as long as the import isn't TOO MUCH against the law, I've got room and PH's need stuff. I've taken sets of dies, a memory chip, a small camera, blank DVD's, empty brass, tied flies, a woman's dress? and a bottle of barbeque sauce. It's a fun way to help out and what's five more pounds in you carry on.

I took a job at a hunting operation in Texas in the late 70's - knowing it paid low, but figuring I could keep body and soul together with tip money. The first weekend of the hunting season one corporate group's bill came to over $20,000, and the client said "add a 15% tip on that for the staff." I thought, this is going to work out OK - until the owner said, "we have a 'no tipping' policy here - we don't want our guides giving preferential treatment to the biggest tippers." Talk about going from high to low in nothing flat!

I could understand his perspective, but if I had known the policy, I would have thought twice about taking the job. The whopping $12,000 a year he paid (for about 80 hours a week) didn't begin to compensate for the privelege of working there.

I had never even considered that money would influence my actions - as I always wanted my hunters to do well. I saw it as a reflection of my abilities. Guess I'm just naive like that...

I always prefer to give gifts or make a gesture to thosenot directly involved in the sporting side of the trip. When in a remote hunting camp or fishing camp I alays feel it is courteous to find out in advance if anything is required by your hosts.

When is RSA I heard that the ranch owner liked a certain brand of 308 Ammo and was haveing trouble finding any ammo due to the new firearms legislation. I took him 60 rounds of ammo, and he was extremely grateful.

The result was that he wanted some Eland shot and told me that I could shoot any young bulls for free and a particular big bull for half price. I got lucky & shot the big bull on the property and everyone was happy. The guys out the week after me shot one of the younger cull bulls and paid full price for him.

I didn't expect anything in return (and would have done it anyway regardless), but I think the gestures were each more valuable to the recipient than the cash value.

I think the ranch owners wife was quite pleased when I gave her the night off and cooked dinner for everyone in camp one evening. What her husband didn't realise was that I would only cook meat he had never eaten so we had scrub hare stifado, spring hare and some warthog kebabs, after that he was converted & the workers didn't automatically get every warthog clients shot, so I don't think I would have been very popular there!!

Rgds,
FB

Gifts are not, usually, a good substitute for tips, but on a recent safari I brought several cheap watches for trackers, skinners, etc. The boys were ecstatic. The watches are kind of a statuw They got good tips, too. Watches are kind of a status symbol amongst them.

Tips are always an interesting thing to deal with. I remember my PH telling me that they don't expect tips from clients, but when they get them, they are more than happy.

I wasn't really supposed to tip because I am considered "staff", but my PH still worked his butt off for me on my hunt. So, I felt it was appropriate to tip him.

I also gave him a pair of gaters, my extra ammo, an awesome Bladetech knife, hats and shirts. All of which he thanked me so much for. Some of the other PHs were 'tipped' with binos, range finders, extra ammo, etc. etc. along with a monetary tip.

I think anything that is given is appreciated because it can be very expensive for them to buy there. I get emails and recieve emails from my outfitters and PHs to bring certain things when I come back to Africa and it really isn't a problem.... really, what is 5 more pounds in the carry-on?

I also am considered staff and I don't pay to hunt, but I always tip, in cash, the staff and the PH..It is a gift for my friends.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
His method constitutes implicit bribery and would be insulting to any self-respecting recipient.

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch44:
Seems to be a backhanded compliment of sorts. Rather insulting to a proficient PH.

I agree 100%.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott450:
A bit more, i have been tipped everything from nothing to $250/day. Some of my best hunts were with "simple" people who saved for years, enjoyed every moment and tipped conservatively but you know that the $100 dollars that they gave you was as good a gesture staright from the heart of a man that gave as good as he could. Big tippers are not necessarily a big hit with the PH, after a few days in the bush your true character will shine through regardless of how much or little money you have.