For those of you who have been to different places, how would you describe or compare the different country's.
I'll go first, but so far I have only been to Namibia:
Beautiful,clean,safe with very friendly people.
Plenty of plains game and long shots. I did not see any of the big five, and was a bit disappointed with that. I did not think that there would be so many roads and telephone poles etc.
Wasn't the Africa from the Tarzan movie's that I saw as a kid!
Overall, I loved Namibia.

Wolf:
I agree on Namibia, we loved it also. However, we didn't seen any roads or powerpoles where we hunted. North of Steinhausen and also near Gobabis. 4 wire cow fences and a long ways between farms.
Where did you hunt?

quote:

I did not think that there would be so many roads and telephone poles etc.

We apologise that people in Africa must communicate and get around.

I went to the US once, thought it would be like an awesome western movie but saw lots of big box stores, big trucks and fat people...kinda dispointed too......

quote:

Originally posted by kayaker:

quote:

I did not think that there would be so many roads and telephone poles etc.

We apologise that people in Africa must communicate and get around.

I went to the US once, thought it would be like an awesome western movie but saw lots of big box stores, big trucks and fat people...kinda dispointed too......

Sorry we disappointed you so much. I can see why you like your country so much more. Gun control, rampant crime, no future for white folks or their kids. Amazing how many folks from the USA are illegally immigrating to Africa.

Wolfgar simply asked for some opinions and it turns into a bitchfest. What's wrong with you people?

Looks like Kayker had a tough time growing up, so he's got a bit of a chip on his shoulder.

Wolfgar-There are places in Africa where you can see the Tarzan's Africa you were expecting.The riverine bush of Zimbabwe is close.The CAR jungle is probably spot on.AFRICA IS Huge.There is so much variety of habitat that one can hardly make generalizations just from one area visit.

Kayaker is making the same mistake,just getting pissy about it.Bit he does make a valid point.If one only visited New York City and assumed the whole of the US was just like that:well ,you get the point.

Kayaker,
I'll assume that you are speaking in jest...I hope you weren't offended by my comments, which were said innocently. What I meant was that Namibia was more developed than I thought it would be. I envisioned driving for days on end without seeing a paved road or phone pole, waiting for elephants to cross the road!
Maybe it's that way in Tanzania etc, but it wasn't that way in Namibia.
I hunted in and around Kamanjab and Outjo.
By the way, yes there are alot of "fat" people here in the US, as we can afford to live to excess in the greatest country in the world! Even here in New York City (the greatest city in the world) you can walk freely without worry and take in the sights, something you cannot do in J'Berg I'm told. Crime is isolated to "certain" areas where tourists don't go anyway, and you can walk into any gunstore and buy whatever the hell you want as long as you have the money. You can also buy a hunting license and hunt for FREE in MILLIONS of acres in New York state alone, not to mention the other states in our country. Maybe you had a bad experience here, where the hell were you anyway?

Wolfgar,
Juts being a sarcastic prick
Its true many first timers to Arica have to re-invent their place perceptions, but Namibia certainly does have lots of wide open spaces!
(Actually a lower population density than the US.)

Its odd how people perceive things, i have been told stoires of how dangerous parts of Ny are yet i grew up in JHB and have never had an incident...yes the crime is high, but I walk there no hassles. And yes, you get lazy fat bastards everywhere on earth!!!!

Thanks for seeing the humor......
Cheers

Ray ray, I had a an awsome time growing up...

lb404, my futures pretty great actually, I don't mind black folks at all, I am African and its my home, i love it more than anything, my family and their lives/businesses doing very well thanks...
I was taking the piss, get a sense of humor, I think the chip may be bigger on your shoulders

DC300 - bitchfest not meant at all, just taking the piss is all!
Wolgar seemed to sense this, thanks!

Kayaker,
Yes, it's all in fun! I thinh that a big city is a big city, no matter where you are. You can walk down any street in New York City, and as long as you are not looking for trouble, no one will bother you...usually.
Stay away from drug sales areas, and mind your business in general. Most parts of the city, you could walk night or day without any fear of becoming a victim, my bet is that JHB is the same way.
Where were you in NY?

Have only had experience with Zimbabwe and Zambia. Zimbabwa is wild in places but you are usually only three or four hours drive from a semimodern city. Zambia on the other hand is very rural with lots of miles between cities. If hunting in Zimbabwe the outfitters usually fly you in so you dont see the development which is preferable in my opinion. I usually drive 1000 miles to go elk hunting so a four hour drive in Zim doesnt seem like much. I think charters in Zambia are a necessity because of road condition and the miles that need to be traveled.

Wolfgar,

You did not experience all Namibia has to offer. They have all 5 of the Big 5. Huge Elephant, Leopard, Cape Buffalo, Rhino and some of the finest Lions in Africa.

There are Sable, Lechwe and Roan as well.

There are areas of Namibia that will make you think you are on the backside of nowhere.

I hunted around Kamanjab as well, and my host explained that the highway to K. was built well so that the previous govt could support the bush war with the current govt in North Namibia/Angola. Maybe the German influence is an ingredient int he infrastructure. I think there's an awful lot of that country that's not close to a good highway. Bob

After our hunt in Namibia last fall my 11 yo son and I did 3+ days of desert touring. Once we got off the "beaten path" we saw no telephone poles or much of any evidence of human settlement other than the Bushman rock engravings. The only living creatures we saw for over 2 days were an ostrich and a single oryx.....no humans, no water, no power poles. Just wide open spaces of rock, sand, gravel and sky. There are plenty of places in Namibia to go to get away from civilization. You just have to get out and do it.

Wolfgar,
Its true , you can get yuorself in trouble in most big cities, but if you keep your eyes open and don't look for crack and guns you are normally OK!!! Never been to NY, only a bit of the west and Detroit. Probably be in Utah (Park City) next June for a conference.

JHB certainly is not the safest city in the world but its is very large (as you may well know) and while I hate big cities is actually a hell of a vibrant, colourful and intersting place and not all bad at all.....like with mnay big cities, local knowledge always helps.

Cheers

Wolfgar,

I wrote this article a couple of years back. It summarizes the countries...jim
-----------------------
Copyright, Jim Dodd 2005
HUNTING AFRICA

Where to go and What to hunt there


Southern Africa Safari Countries

Imagine yourself in the Space Shuttle viewing the earth from a polar orbit 300 miles up. Passing over the ice of Antarctica, the Dark Continent rises into view, with the cold Atlantic bangwelu currents to the left, and the warmer waters of the Indian Ocean to right. Your heads-up display shows the political boundaries against the terrain. Directly ahead at the southern tip of Africa is the Republic of South Africa. Moving further north, Namibia heaves into view on your left hand. Botswana is to its right, and Zimbabwe lies a bit further right, with Mozambique on the extreme right. North of Zimbabwe is Zambia, and north of Mozambique is Tanzania. These countries comprise the principal Southern Africa hunting countries. This is a huge area, with a thoroughly interesting variety of topography, terrain, flora, fauna and hunt opportunities.

Universally, people who go to Africa to hunt, want to return, again and again; travel here at your peril! My own first hunting experience, siting up on a Namibian kopje, I had a tremendous rush of déjà-vu, a recognition of place, an identification with this place as the place of my far ancestors. It came strongly to me that we all came from this great land, all of the humans are sprung from this Africa.

Making this connection is part of the process that locks the one-time Africa hunter into repeated trips. That dusty land stretched out for miles and years in front of me, sparsely filled with trees, and the echoes of other times and other people. It is like returning to a family home that you had never visited before, new yet familiar. I last felt this connection to those who came before touring the catacombs of Rome.

For further research, you can get a variety of Africa and country-specific information from the African Studies Center at the University of Pennsylvania. Also Lonely Planet's "Africa - The South" (ISBN 0-86442-473-6), newly published in 1997, is available in US bookstores, and is a good handbook. This is a general reference as the authors pretend that hunting does not exist.

Now for some snap shots of the individual countries. Geographic data is from the CIA WorldFact Book.

South Africa - Their motto is "A world in a country!" -- South Africa is some 1,219,912 square Kilometers, or slightly less than twice the size of Texas. Population is about 43 million. There are 11 official languages, including English. Altitudes range from sea level to over 10,000 feet in the Drakensburg Mountains. There are extensive hunting opportunities. South Africa is a "first world" country, and most things are readily available. Game is on private ranches. Low daily rates, but higher trophy fees. Great facilities and service. Higher chance of a fly-by-night outfitter because of sheer numbers.

Namibia - Formerly Southwest Africa, Namibia became independent in 1990. 825,418 Sq. Km, slightly greater than half the size of Alaska. Namibia is a dry land, and with only about 1.8 million people, has the lowest population density of Southern Africa. English is an official language, and is widely spoken. Hunting is conducted on ranches in the south and on the central escarpment, and on concessions in the north. The hunting program here developed in the German tradition and is excellent, and government regulation is enlightened. This is a great first hunt destination, and prices are on the lower end of the scale.

Botswana - Formerly Bechuanaland, Botswana encompases 600,370 square Km, is slightly smaller than Texas. The average elevation is 1,000 meters. The landscape is an almost flat expanse of scrub covered desert, or savannah. The famous Kalahari Desert covers about 85% of Botswana, and the equally famous Okavango Delta occupies the north. The population is about 1.6 million. English is the official language, and is the language schools teach. Setswana is widely spoken. Most safaris are based in tented camps, and charter flights are used to reach camp. Expect an excellent hunt, but with higher prices. Lion hunting is closed in 2002 as part of a government study of lion populations.

Zimbabwe - Formerly Rhodesia, "Zim" is a land-locked country some 390,580 sq Km with altitudes ranging from to 900m to 1700m, and is slightly larger than Montana. Population is about 11.3 million. Hunts are conducted in concession areas and on private ranches. Some areas are close to major airports, and are easy to reach. This is classic bush veld hunting. Expect excellent camp facilities, great service, excellent PHs. Lowest chance of encountering a fly-by-night outfit. Daily rates higher, but trophy fees lower. Red tape can be a real pain. The political situation in 2002 requires watching on a daily basis.

Mozambique - 801,590 Sq. Km, slightly less than twice the size of California, with an estimated population of about 19.3 million. Portuguese is the official language, and many indigenous dialects are spoken. One of a kind buffalo hunts (how about a portered hunt in a swamp up to your waist?). Good leopard, but not much other game (the war, you know). Lacking in facilities especially after the recent tornadoes and floods. Have your papers in order before going. Not recommended for a first time hunt, and do your staff work before going at all.

Zambia - Formerly Northern Rhodesia. 752,610 Sq. Km, slightly greater than the size of Texas, with a population of about 9.7 million. English is the official language, along with a variety of local languages. Zambia has a checkered past, and hunting conditions are up and down like a yo-yo due to local politics, not because of any problems with game. Hunting takes place in concession areas and ranches, and the camps are generally first rate. Best leave this one for later, and again do your staff work if you decide to go. Prices are on the high side. Right now in 2002 concession hunting is closed while the courts sort out some issue of the new, quasi-privatized hunting system.

Tanzania - Formerly Tanganyika, Tanzania is actually a part of East Africa, but is included here because of its great (but expensive) hunting. The area is 945,090 sq km, slightly larger than twice the size of California, with about 36.2 Million people. Swahili and English are official languages. Many professionals consider Tanzania to be the best hunting destination, harking back to the days of yesteryear in Kenya. Hunting is in concessions.


Game Distributions

African hunting is famous for the Big Five (elephant, black rhino, Cape Buffalo, lion and leopard), but there are also some 72 antelope species (the actual species count depends on the source). Not all animals occur everywhere, so your choice of area determines what you can hunt.

Black rhino are not hunted anywhere in Africa today. Some hunters substitute hippo taken on land for the black rhino, judging both to be equally rasty in temperment, and powerful.

The traditional mixed bag African safaris that Robert Ruark and Peter Hathaway Capstick described were hunts for the Big Five, and other animals occurring in the territory, lasting three weeks to a month or more. Teddy Roosevelt spent a year in the field on his famous safari. These hunts are still available, but today shorter and more targeted hunts are available too. A first hunt is commonly a plains game hunt, meaning antelope are the game. Antelope range in size from 4 pounds to over a ton, something for everybody.

One of the great pleasures of hunting Africa for me is the sheer number of animals seen daily. A second is the variety found. You don't know what you will see next, from rodents to elephant! North American game populations are sparse by comparison. Every day you can expect to see multiple examples of shootable trophies. My third great pleasure is the bird watching; it is world class.

My strategy for my own hunting is to build a hunt package around one of the big five or a special animal, and complement it with the other species that occur in the area. For example, my next hunt will be to Zimbabwe for Cape Buffalo. I told the outfitter that I also wanted to hunt waterbuck, zebra and impala from his list of game. This strategy balances time required and cost, and allows me to go more places.

Decide what you want to do, and choose the country and the animals accordingly. If you want to hunt a particular animal, then go where other hunters report that they are taking those animals. If you just want to hunt Africa, the field is wide open. If you want to combine hunting with some side trips as a tourist, there are many choices too. A history buff could book a hunt in South Africa's KwaZulu/Natal and visit the battlefields made famous by the Boers, British and the Zulu. Great bird shooting and fishing are also available, and they are both excellent by any scale. Combination hunts are available too. Capetown, South Africa is a world class city for the visitor. Working with your hunting consultant will give you ideas you might not have thought of yourself.


More animal details are in Richard D. Estes "The Safari Companion" (ISBN 0-930031-49-0), published in Southern Africa and the US; 451 pages of serious detail on the mammals of Africa. Safari Club publishes its Record Book of Trophy Animals; it is an excellent reference for the hunter. Rowland Ward continues to publish their Records of Big Game; they now have offices in South Africa and in America.

Here are some details about the individual countries. For length, I will only mention the most popular species. Remember too, that there are some 72 species of antelope and gazelle in Africa.

South Africa - There are extensive hunting opportunities, and top drawer facilities. Game is on private ranches. Great nyala, white rhino; good elephant, lion, leopard, Cape Buffalo, kudu, sable, waterbuck. Many unique species, such as three types of springbok.

Namibia - Hunting is on ranches in the south and on the central escarpment, and on concessions in the north, split about 70-30. Largest bodied elephant in Africa, great kudu, red hartebeest, springbuck and gemsbok; some lion, leopard, cheetah, Cape Buffalo, roan, nyala, waterbuck available. Super value for the price.

Botswana - Much of this country is hunting concessions, especially in the Kalahari and Okavango Delta. Great lion, kudu and sitatunga; good elephant, leopard, Cape buffalo, sable. Excellent facilities. (Note: lion hunting is closed this year while populations are studied).

Zimbabwe - Hunting is on concessions and private ranches. Good elephant; lion, leopard, Cape buffalo, kudu, sable, waterbuck. Superior outfitters and excellent facilities throughout the country. The political situation continues in turmoil.

Mozambique - One of a kind buffalo hunts (how about a portered hunt in a swamp up to your waist?). Good leopard, but not much other game (the war, you know). Lacking in facilities. Have your papers in order before going.

Zambia - Great sable; good lion, leopard, Cape buffalo, kudu, roan, sitatunga, waterbuck. You must buy the licenses in advance, like North America. Work with the consultant and outfitter team on choices. If you don't take an animal, you don't get a refund. Do your staff work here, politics change things rapidly.

Tanzania - Formerly Tanganyika, Tanzania is a part of East Africa, but is included for its great (but expensive) hunting. Great lion, leopard, Cape Buffalo; OK elephant; kudu, roan, fringe eared oryx, lesser kudu, sable, sitatunga, waterbuck. It would take at least two safaris to collect one of each game animal available. Bring your wallet. This is the destination if you want to take multiple Cape buffalo.


Web Resources

CIA WorldFact Book 2001
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

Rowland Ward
http://www.rowlandward.com/

Safari Club International
http://www.safariclub.org/

University of Pennsylvania African Studies Center
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/African_Studies/



------------------------------------------

1b404:

Now, now, let's be kind to our RSA "neighbors".

Wolfgar:

You got the most important benefit of travel. You liked where you went -so it's unimportant whether others like somewheres else. They were not on your trip. Glad to hear that you liked Namibia. Africa is exciting,isn't it? I saw it only once and have never forgotten it. Hope you get back there.

Thanks fellas. I will be going soon to the plumtree/matopas hills area of Zimbabwe soon...I hear that it is a bit more "wild"...any of you been to that region, I would like to hear your comments.

I went for buffalo in Moz. in 04 & it is about as Tarzan as you can hope for. In my case there were several dyas I thought I was on the set of "The African Queen". Mosquitoes about ate me alive. Interesting hunt for sure but I think I'll try the Caprivi next time.

quote:

Wolfgar,
Its true , you can get yuorself in trouble in most big cities, but if you keep your eyes open and don't look for crack and guns you are normally OK!!! Never been to NY, only a bit of the west and Detroit. Probably be in Utah (Park City) next June for a conference.

Park City in June--Best MTN biking north of Moab

The Caprivi is old Africa, more like N. Botswana than the Kalihari. Complete with ele, buff, crocs, hippo, etc.

Since this is a hunting forum, it's important to compare these countries from the point of view of
1. Daily rates
2. Trophy fees
3. Charters
4. Minimum hunt durations.

The last two factors can double the cost of a safari. Charters are often recommended or required, and often cost as much as your airfare to Africa. And min days are a big turn-off in Tanzania and Zambia in particular, since the daily rates are very high in those countries. The Minimum Days thing is also practiced to some degree in Moz and Zimbabwe, and in Botswana in the concessions (as opposed to the private ranches).

It's not surprising that most low-budget hunters end up going to SA or Namibia. Sufficient infrastructure so no charters (unless you are a real sucker), and no minimum days. The only problem with these two is DG hunts are very expensive. For those, Zim is the average man's answer. There you can get by without charters although many outfits try to pressure you into a charter. It's not necessary, unless you are relocating mid-hunt from the Zambezi Valley to the south. That's a very full day drive if you do it by road, and there are problems getting gasoline. Some also specify min days, but the mins are not as onerous as Tanzania or Zambia, and if you think that you won't need all those days for the species on your list, you can usually nego. that point.

Bottom line, stay away from Zambia and Tanzania unless money is no object. You can find pretty close to everything you need in SA, Nam and Zim. There is also very good Kalahari hunting in Bots, incl. leopard, and nowhere near as expensive as the "Niemann Marcus" hunts in the Okavanago. Similar to SA. Lechwe and Roan are the two species you can't really get in the "reasonable price" areas, but even those species are now "stocked" in these countries. Also you won't find some of the obscure antelope but nothing the average guy has to have.

It's really counterintuitive that the wilder and less-developed countries/areas are the most expensive. Exclusive use of a chunk of land is the biggest cost factor in any hunt, and the price of land in the more developed countries is much higher than in the boonies. It has to do with the romance factor and also the presence of free-ranging DG...the market will bear a premium for that.

Wolfgar

Now that this has come back around to the original question I'd like to give it a brief stab from my own limited perspective.

I've personally hunted Zim twice and will return next year for 3 weeks. I've found the level of professionalism in the hunting industry to be high and service good in Zim. The hunting is great but there really are no unique animals available there. If you stick with long establish safari operators it would be pretty hard for you to have a "BAD" safari though. It seems to me that on average really spectacular trophies are a little rarer in Zim than some other places but you do get a lot of bang for your buck.

I've also hunted Zambia twice and I must admit that area along the Luangwa river and the Bangweulu swamp are some of my favorites on the planet. Here you might want to be a little more careful in picking a safari company but once again the long established guys with good references are a safe bet. Getting in and out of the country is a breeze and people are very friendly. Zambia has some excellent hunting and several uncommon or unique aniamls available including 3 varieties of lechwe, sitatunga, big sable and roan Crawshay's waterbuck plus all the usual subjects. This does come at a price but a 7-10 buff hunt allowing a hippo and croc can be had for prices only a little higher than Zim.

I've only hunted Tanzania once but I do have a 21 day safari planned there in '07. I really think its reputation as the creme de creme for a full bag safari or a very wild short buffalo hunt is well deserved. Tanzania just has the "Old Africa" feel about it and I really enjoyed it. The hunting can vary a great deal from one area to the other and unfortunately there are some unscrupulous operators there. When you book a hunt ask the guy what area you will hunt and when he last hunted there. The unique species available are really too numerous to list but there is an amazing array of animals available to those who can afford the 21 day license. Once again though a short buffalo hunt in a camp where you have exclusivity of the camp and the concession can be arranged at very reasonalbe rates.

Botwana probably will not see me again. I just felt it was over priced. The hunting was great, service good and friendly folks. The landscape is flat as a pancake and boring. The Okavango was beautiful but a couple of days there is enough. Perhaps I expected more than what was really available.

In '96 I did a ranch hunt in Namibia and found the whole thing to be easy and very pleasant. It has to be the easiest of countries to get in and out of. The ranches will not give you that wild africa feel but they are not supposed to. You also can get a very reasonable priced safari here. The Caprivi, Bushmanland etc can give you that wild experience in spades with hunting on par with Botswana but not as expensive.

In '04 I was in RSA and just had a great time so much so I'm going back this August. Once again though do not expect the Cape or any of the ranch hunts to be the classic wild Africa. RSA is great for the guy wanting a lot of species and shooting in a short time or the collector wanting to pick up the unique species there. South Africa has alot of great operators but once again for the best overall experience deal with the guys who have the long established reputations even if they are a litte more expensive. Guns can be a hassle here but a good operator will help you navigate that.

Mozambique is something to look forward to for '07 but I have no personal experience there. I do know some very well respected operators are there and prices do not have to be way above Zimbabwe.

Ethiopia, Cameroon and CAR may be in the future but I don't know much about them personally.

The above are my personal observations and feelings about the countries I've hunted and represent.

Mark

Mark,
You pretty much summed-up what I meant about Namibia not having that wild africa feel...not knocking it at all, just that maybe it was the hunting out of a ranch house that made me feel that way.
The hunt was still great beyond my wildest dreams, but I just hope Matopas Hills/Zim is "wilder"

If Namibia isn't African enough for you, then you will be disappointed with RSA. Population density much higher, well developed infrastructure, much smaller properties etc etc. And don't even THINK of going to the Eastern Cape....no Africa feel at all (not bushveld).

Most of Namibia and Botwsana are desert - Namib and Kalahari. Doesn't look at all like Africa on TV...but Africa is not a monosphere...there is an enormous variety of terrain, vegetation, fauna and birds, even within one country.

I am curious....did the promoters of your Namibia hunt use the word "concession" when you booked? This is a misleading word that a lot of operators throw around and I believe it creates false expectations.