I was just thinking that if someone wanted to visit Africa's most remote country, the place least affected by civilization, and just the same today as it was 1,000 years ago, where would you go? I was thinking maybe Congo-Brazzivill, or CAR. What's you opinion?

.

Is this true even in the above country's most remote regions?

Wolfgar,

I have been fortunate to travel to 20 countries all over the continent. The most remote place I saw was near Mount Bagzane in Northern Niger. It is huge plateau in a Tuareg area on the edge of the sahara. It reminded me of "Lawrence of Arabia". Nothing but red rock and dirt as far as you could see, then an oasis rising out of the desert with oranges, dates and grapefruit. An abandonned French fort as well.

No place I saw was untouched, when we arrived there were artisans who rolled out there packs and tried to sell us things.

The Dogon country in Mali is supposed to be great, they have a network of trails from village to village that people hike, but they also have been influenced by the outside - There is a joke there that each family has a father, a mother, four sons, four daughters and an Anthropologist.

Lots of other interesting places, hope I can make it to some more.

Even the most remote parts of Madagascar that I visited were not "untouched."I saw Coke and Fanta bottles in some pretty far flung places.

On the top of the list would be the Chad, 2nd poorest country in the world. I did missionary work there in 2001. They don't have the means too change things even if they wanted too....Bob

Shame isn't it? Nothing left untouched by man. I was dismayed in Namibia this summer, never too far from a road or something.

Niger is a bit out of the way. Same with the swamps of Nigeria. Been to Nigeria on business - never again.

Posted 07 February 2006 06:27
On the top of the list would be the Chad, 2nd poorest country in the world. I did missionary work there in 2001. They don't have the means too change things even if they wanted too....Bob

When writing about big game hunting in Chad for one of my books a couple of years ago I went looking for info on the tribe that has been called "the fuzzy wuzzies." I came across a website on the internet that someone from the tribe maintains! I couldn't believe it.
Unfortunately I couldn't find the site today after a quick search.

Bill Quimby

Any spot loaded with tsetse flies will be a candidate for your "least affected by civilization" site...

quote:

Originally posted by Wolfgar:
I was just thinking that if someone wanted to visit Africa's most remote country, the place least affected by civilization, and just the same today as it was 1,000 years ago, where would you go? I was thinking maybe Congo-Brazzivill, or CAR. What's you opinion?

Wofgar,

Having travelled extensivly in 21 African countries, and going out of our way to reach some of the more desolate regions in a lot of them, I'd say you'd have a hard time finding exactly what you are looking for. And of the countries I haven't been to, there are basically none left in Africa where I don't know someone who has been, and thus have some kind of impression of what it is like. But with that said, north and west Africa would be the best region for you to go, provided you can do it yourself, with your own vehicle and equipment.

In some parts of north/west Africa (for example in Niger, Mauritania, Mali, Algeria, Chad and Sudan), you can find desolate places not inhabited by humans, due to the very nature of the area (some areas of the Sahara for example obviously lack water, and thus are not inhabited). But even in these countries you have to go way off the beaten track to find a place to be all alone. And unfortunatly, many of the remote areas in these countries have serious problems with rebels or bandits.

I recall a few times when my wife and I were far away from any road or track, where there were only sand dunes, and where clearly no one lived. Yet suddenly a couple of guys on camel(with the obligatory AK-47s) would pop up. In the middle of "no where". They didn't live there, but still passed thru on their way from A-B.

Culturally, we found people in the more desolate areas of north Africa to be what is most likely closest to what they were centuries ago. People who had no modern utensils, habits etc. These were mainly nomads, or pastoral families living by themselves, who had never gone to school, didn't speak the countries offical language even, and so on. These were also some of the friendliest people we met thoughout Africa.

The Dogon escarpment is mentioned on another post, and it is an interesting area to visit. But they are most definatly influanced by modern society. And religion. There has been, and still is, a constant battle between their animistic beliefs, Islam (which is the dominant religion in Mali), and Christian missionaries. And of course, the large number of tourists that hike along the escarpment influances things too.

I see Chad is mentioned, and that the people who are living there have a hard time is an understatement. But they are far from being "untouched" by modern times and society. Decades of war has unfortunatly seen to that. But since the Tubu in Chad have been infamous warriors and bandits as long as people can remember, I guess they might be considered to have not changed much. Chadiennes were undoubtably the most agressive people in general that we encountered in Africa.

One place that is relativly easily accessable that has a culture that still closely resembles what they used to be would be on the border area between Namibia and Angola in Namibias northwestern corner. Some of the Himba found there still live as their ancestors did mainly because of their fierce pride over their heritage. But they too have been "corrupted" by the modern world to some degree.

All in all, it's is an amazing feeling to stare at the stars and know that no one else is (supposedly) closer than several hundred kilometers. And I would highly recommend that if you want to experiance this, you'd better not wait too long.

The best way to find what you're looking for:

It would not be Africa at all. A romantic notion, long dead.

For me it would be the remote parts of the Northwest Territories of Canada.

Wolfgar, Erik,

I am afraid to confirm You the Chad is fairly unsettled.
I am back from the CAR. The week before I came, 2 Frenchmen were shot by Chadians or Sudaneses.
Erik was quoting Alain LEFOL, the famous Mellon's PH. Alain was in Bangui and told that he had to let down hunting in Chad, because of the insecurity outside N'djamena.
He has to let down his territory in the CAR which is bordering the Chad. To many rebels from Chad and Sudan.
I met the boss of the(private) Anti-Poaching brigades who confirm that the troubles in Sudan have infected the South and East of Chad.
The only safe aeras are N'djamena and oil fields as long as the french army is in action.
As Erik explained, the AK47 Kalashnikov is everywhere, at least in the CAR and the Chad.

Is banditry and bearing weapons a "Western Creation"? I think not.

Is murder and raiding across borders a new phenonomon? I think not.

Is poaching elephant and other game a new part of many of these cultures? I think not.

Substituting a spear for an AK-47, is just part of upgrading weapons, same as bronze for iron and stone for bronze.

Security or insecurity in many of these regions has perhaps always been part of the cultures.

Being murdered by cross-border raiders may just be the same result as if you visited some of the areas a thousand years ago. Actually many of these areas have famous and infamous trade routes that go back to pre-historic times. They just trade different things nowadays.

Time stands still for no man.

When I first hunted Ethiopia in 1982, there were a few AK's but mostly everyone had 1895 Mannlichers. The Afar were a very proud poeple. The men still wore white skirts and carried a white shama ( blanket like wrap). Sandals were made of oryx hide with a few tire tread flip flops starting to make their appearance. The women wore dark skirts and beautiful necklaces and a head scarf...nothing else. Today it's AK's FAL's, tee shirts ( black ones for the women), wirst watches, and either pastel green or pink plastic sandals. The best of the old hunting areas are either now worn out, deserted farms or (along the highway) cheap hotels and whore houses.

The Sala Concession north of Mago park is still fairly primative but too many tourists have passed through. The Mursi women stil use the clay lip plates and the men wear ...not much of anything but they all have their hands out when a camera appears. The Bodi tribe also found there is much the same. Both tribes still have an occasional battle but they both have AK's now. Since both tribes still practice cannibalism there aren't any bodies to bury afterwards. Some things don't change.
Rich Elliott

Rich

I had a look at ethiopa rift valley safari website.Ethiopian rift valley safaris
You are talking of Afars people. Djibouti is the territory of the Afars and the Issas
A very interesting country Ethiopia. I wonder if hunting is possible there?

jbderunz,
We 've been conducting hunting safaris there since 1982. The website you got the picts from is our photo safari website.

In the order you posted....
Mursi woman from our Sala Concession
Hammer woman from the Eastern side of the Omo Valley
Karo man. Actually he's one of our workers at the Omo Camp (Murulle). Of the 3 people pictured, the HAmmer woman is the only one who isn't dressed for a special occasion.

Rich Elliott

Rich,

Congratulations, in many African countries, people has not even a hint of what was the tribal dressing and requirements. Many are not far from permanent, though inconscious of, tramps.
Ethiopia is evoking poor Haile Selassie, the King of the kings, from Sebah Queen and Salomon descent. Then the nefarious Mengistu...????
Since 1982, I think You saw quite a lot of events.
What are the games you are currently hunting in this fascinating country?

quote:

Originally posted by Wolfgar:
I was just thinking that if someone wanted to visit Africa's most remote country, the place least affected by civilization, and just the same today as it was 1,000 years ago, where would you go? I was thinking maybe Congo-Brazzivill, or CAR. What's you opinion?

TEXAS!

quote:

Originally posted by husky:

quote:

Originally posted by Wolfgar:
I was just thinking that if someone wanted to visit Africa's most remote country, the place least affected by civilization, and just the same today as it was 1,000 years ago, where would you go? I was thinking maybe Congo-Brazzivill, or CAR. What's you opinion?

TEXAS!

Hey -- I resemble that remark!

Jean,

Except for elephant back in the mid 80's to early 90's, the most important species hunted in Ethiopia is the Mountain Nyala. It's only found on three mountain ranges....all located in Ethiopia. Other game found in those mt. areas includes, Menelik's bushbuck..the black one, Giant Forest Hog, Leopard, Bushpig, Abysinnian Bohor Reedbuck ( now found at lower agricultural areas), Black & White Colobus, and East African Bush Duiker. The Danakil Desert Concessions have Soemmerings Gazelle, Beisa Oryx, Salts dik-dik, Huge warthog, and in some areas Defassa Wateruck, Abyssinian bushbuck, lesser kudu, Abyssinian Greater kudu,
Northern Gerenuk, and occasionally, lion.

The Omo Valley has the best lesser kudu available in Africa, Nothern Grants gazelle, Tiang, S. Gerenuk, Guenther's dik-dik, Nile Buffalo, Neumann's Hartebeest, Oribi, Defassa Waterbuck, Chanlers Mt. Reedbuck, East African bush duiker, Grants zebra, Abysinnian Greater kudu, Abysinnian Bushbuck, and Reticulated (I think) girrafe.

There is a new area we are opening for Nile Buffalo, Defassa Water buvk and Hippo and we also hope to be able to hunt a fringe area of Gambella for White eared kob in the not too distant future. Aside from that, there just isn't muchto hunt in Ethiopia

Rich Elliott

Rich,

When questionning You I was thinking of the magic mountain Nyala.
I am just back from the CAR, and God ,how I suffered hunting the Bongo in vain (my partner succeeded). Though I cannot imagine suffering again for a mountain Nyala.

Now please Shut up!!!!!!!!

Lesser Kudu, Gerenuk, Beisa are pure jewels.

Rich I fear we'll meet very soon.

Jean,

Igziaber yestilign
Amaharic for "God Will's it!"
Meanwhile, it sounds like you'd best rest up.

Rich Elliott

quote:

Karo man. Actually he's one of our workers at the Omo Camp (Murulle).

quote:

Since both tribes still practice cannibalism there aren't any bodies to bury afterwards. Some things don't change.

Aah, difficult clients beware.

(PS I know he isn't from one the tribes you specified, but he looks the part )

I'll second the NWT as being truly remote. Hunting sheep and caribou there was an unfortgettable trip - 120 air miles from Norman Wells - it would take a LONG time to get out of there on under your own power...

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
It would not be Africa at all. A romantic notion, long dead.

For me it would be the remote parts of the Northwest Territories of Canada.

NitroX,

He's a Karo and Karos don't have the propensity to eat their neighbors. They really don't usually get too involved in tribal wars being rather small in numbers. The Bumi's (Omo west bank) and Hammers really do go at it sometiumes. This has never affected our operation but one needs to be mindful of it if one should see Bumi's on the wrong side of the river.

Up in Sala is where the cannibals live and it never occured to me that they could be used to subdue difficult clients. Talk about having a problem "disappear"

Rich Elliott

Rich, Nitrox,

You know Rich, John Nitrox is subtly pushing me to post a picture of human limbs beeing smoked on a fire. I took this picture in the CAR and posted it on NitroExpress forum.
He is pushing me exactly the way the smart schoolboy excites the sucker- prankster so as the teacher punishes him.................and Saeed will ban me forever.
Why not Mahomet's caricatures yet published today again in France.............just to affirm freedom of opinion.............and to offense so many people.........just for fun.

Nitrox, You are a grand personality, a genuine friend and definitely very far from being not smart.

quote:

Originally posted by jbderunz:
Rich, Nitrox,

You know Rich, John Nitrox is subtly pushing me to post a picture of human limbs beeing smoked on a fire. I took this picture in the CAR and posted it on NitroExpress forum.
He is pushing me exactly the way the smart schoolboy excites the sucker- prankster so as the teacher punishes him.................and Saeed will ban me forever.
Why not Mahomet's caricatures yet published today again in France.............just to affirm freedom of opinion.............and to offense so many people.........just for fun.

Nitrox, You are a grand personality, a genuine friend and definitely very far from being not smart.

So stop teasing us and let's see the photo for crying out loud!!!

Oui Oui, Je Desire!
Ou e' le photo?

Rich Elliott

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Elliott:
Oui Oui, Je Desire!
Ou e' le photo?

Rich Elliott

Inch Allah! Mektoub.

Je regret...tres Gross!

Rich Elliott

Rich,

Your french is far better than the poor roasting guy.

Mon Dieu!!!

JB

I'm completely innocent!

I think it was John Berger who wrote of having to flee some of the same areas due to cannibal tribes.

Just shows nothing really changes under the African sun.

(the photo is very gross - don't get lost in the bush)

Not to burst your bubble, but they look like Gorilla arms with the hair burnt-off

Or baboons?
Somehow the fingers look out of proportion to the limb?

As to the original post I believe some of the remotest area and people are in West Irian near the Papua New guinea border.
Some truly unique country there with some highly difficult access. triple canopy rainforest steep without roads.

APB

Looks like roasted Pygmy to me
Guess the closet I've come to to eating that was fried leopard.
RIch Elliott

quote:

Originally posted by APB:
Or baboons?
Somehow the fingers look out of proportion to the limb?

As to the original post I believe some of the remotest area and people are in West Irian near the Papua New guinea border.
Some truly unique country there with some highly difficult access. triple canopy rainforest steep without roads.

APB

Agreed, I help drill a few wells in the Highlands near Lake Kutubu - it was remote and a bit unnerving with the local boys just hanging around the edge of the camp all dressed up with the p---- gourds and face paint.

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Elliott:
Looks like roasted Pygmy to me
Guess the closet I've come to to eating that was fried leopard.
RIch Elliott

I am sure I have seen another photo with a human skull in the ashes.

If believing this is a baboon makes it easier to look at it, go ahead. But it bears no resemblance to baboon to me .

BTW In the Congo, hungry Congolese soldiers were reported to be killing pygmies as meat only a year or two ago. I mentioned it on these forums at the time.