A big article on the front page of USA Today made it clear that you Europeans hate our freaking guts. In fact, it intimated that a lot of rank and file folks think we deserved 9/11 and look forward to us getting additional bloody noses in the future. Having recently returned from Europe for the umteenth time, I agree that our image is, for some reason, on the wane.

That's neither here nor there. What I'm interested in is how we are viewed in southern Africa. If memory serves me right (and it might not -- I'm getting old) white South Africans went through a period not so long ago where they were the world's pariahs. I'll soon be making my first trip there and figure that I'll have someone to comiserate with. You know, pariah to pariah.

Actually, I'm getting tired of spending my money in places where I'm not wanted and was hoping that the welcome mat in southern Africa might still be out for me (not for just my money).

Do the words pigeon and pluck ring a bell??

GAHUNTER,

In two trips to RSA, Carol and I have never had anything but friendly receptions from everyone we met (except for one surely taxi driver in Cape Town). We were warmly treated by everyone we came in contact with. Very nice people and definitely not anti-American.

As for the rest of the world, when they need something done (whether it is political, military or economic) they come crying to the US for help. (Except for the Brits and Aussies, those mean SOB's will stand and fight with the US).

Regards,

Terry

[ 08-15-2002, 08:33: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

I was treated well by everyone I met in Namibia last year, and I met a number of people. Of the mostly German landowners in Namibia most use the 30-06. I guess they have let bygones be bygones.

When I toured Australia in 2000 all the Australians I met were friendly. The only people I met who seemed to dislike America/Americans were the european tourists. I also heard one guy from Canada telling guy from England how he does not like Americans. I heard this and though how sad it was that this idiot from Canada was traveling around the world representing his country and all he could think to do was talk bad about Americans.

Jason

I read my post above and I want to state that I do not want to bash Canadians. I have liked everyone I have spoke to from Canada. I know the fool in Australia does not represent the majority of people from Canada.

Jason

J Brown,

Don't worry, I know the guy and he's just a jerk.

Canadian's aren't typically anti anyone (excluding the obvious terrorists etc). We usually spend more time poking fun at ourselves than anyone else. We have our share of jerks too though.

Canuck

Canuck

I am not surprised you know this guy, I was told he was the only idiot in your country.

You don't have to tell me how you guys like to poke fun at yourselves eh, I have seen Strange Brew ya hoser.

Jason

Karoo-koo-koo-koo-koo-koo-kooo. Welcome to the Great White North eh!

Thanks. I've always loved that movie. Better get back to my beer...its gettin warm, eh.

Canuck

I think you have to differentiate between a certain amount of rivalry and legging pulling to a genuine dislike. You also have to see through the very often nationalistic or socialist views presented by Newspapers with regards other countries. On the news last night the was some interviews with ordinary British people on the street with regards Washington's plans to invade Iraq and most were quite negative about the USA in this respect. However later on there was another item about a group of NYC fire fighters and families of NYC fire fighters who had been lost on 9/11 and how they were in the UK on holiday. It showed a clip of a small local fire service presenting a cheque for around $75,000 which had been donated spontaneously by local towns people in the aftermath of 9/11. I think that reflects the real feeling by British people for America when America is in a tight spot....

Canuck,

I'll have to get back to you on that one. I'm looking for my atlas so I can figure out where the hell this Canada thing is.

Regards,

Terry

[ 08-15-2002, 16:45: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

I agree, the Europeans don't much care for us, just care for our money.

But, the South Africans and Namibians, have always treated us with OPEN arms, and NOT just open to our money.
I have more great and sincere friends in Africa then I do here. Their friendship is very genuine.

I have been treated warmly in Southern Africa, and I have been treated well in most other countries. I have been treated poorly , mostly by people in countries where French is spoken including Canada(Quebec). I have never met a Brit, Aussie, Dutch, German, Norwegian, Spaniard that I didn't like.

Gentlemen,

I think we are missing something very important here.

People, regardless of from where they are, seem to always get on well together.

I have lived in the UK for almost 10 years, then in the US for over two years, I cannot honestly say that I have come across any unfriendly people during that time.

Here in Dubai I have friends from all over the world, from all walks of life, and we seem to get on just as well as if they were born here.

Now if we look at what our respective GOVERNMENTS do, then I am totally with you. In fact, I would imagine people all over the world hate thier own governments, not just those of other countries.

Africans, Arabs, Europeans and any other race you might think of, do NOT hate Americans. I think a lot of them hate American POLITICS.

I might add a lot of Americans hate American politics too.

At least, this is my own view.

To GAHUNTER: I think you misspoke a little. I read that USA Today, there was no mention of people thinking that we "deserved 9/11". There was discussion of the thought that the USA blew all the sympathy and good feelings that arose towards the USA in its subsequent actions. You have to remember that terrorism is not new in Europe and many parts of the world. The USA by and large ignored it, and in fact if you look at the IRA actions in Northern Ireland, many citizens of the USA actively supported it! However, when it hit the USA, all of a sudden, terrorism became a threat to world peace!Remember if you will that the USA actively funded and trained the Taliban, not to mention supplying them with weapons. Remember if you will, that Iraq was our "ally" when Iran was the enemy! Can you doubt that if it had been an Iranian plane that attacked the USS Stark with Exocet missiles, that we would not, now, be occupying Iran? The USA preaches democracy, free trade, free speech and open markets, but still actively supports dictators and the most oppresive regimes, while at the same time, enacting tarrifs against foreign imports. Now, our "allies" are Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, both are, wonderful examples of the virtues preached by the USA. We threaten to invade Iraq, one of the "axis of evil" countries, but don't threaten North Korea (also a member of the "axis of evil"). Why not, could it be that North Korea has no oil and also has a 1 million man army? Also, why are we going to build a nuclear reactor in North Korea? perhaps because of the money?
I am not trying to provoke a fight here, just pointing out that there ARE different perspectives than the one that many in the USA seem to have.
Peter.

Having been a career officer in the USAF I can say that, with few exceptions, Americans are generally well received.

Those exceptions were in France (specifically Paris) where the attitude was "You don't speak fluent French...leave your money and go" Driving thru the coutryside was much nicer and the people very friendly...especially as you approached Normandy.

In Italy (especially Rome)..."What! You don't drive like you are in the Mille Miglia...get your car out of my way, you idiot"...with a lot of hand gestures. Again the coutryside was nice especially as you went north (we visited the Perazzi factory).

I guess it's mostly city folks that cause the problems...not county boys like me.

Saeed, there is at least one sane person on this forum. Thank you.

Hugh.

Saeed,

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I do not hate the American people, rather I have a dislike for American politics especially when it comes to warfare, and of course economics issues that directly affect Canada.

I also agree with you on the fact that many people hate their own goverments. I hate the politics of the ruling party in my own country. Unfortunately as in a lot of countries when it comes to election day the choices are limited, and I believe a good majority of the people of Canada vote for who they think are the lesser of the evils. A sad thing to have to admit, but true none the less

Lynn D

People are just people, some good, some bad but in the hunting fields we all get along as far as I know, as rusty sez "We band of brothers"..

Mostly Governments don't get along, people do when exposed to each other in person...

I particularly like Africans and Aussies, they are illiterate, dumb, hard drinkers and fighters,full of piss and vinegar, like Texans, my kinda folks! fun to be around. I have a lot of freinds that are Canadian from my younger days in Rodeo and have maintained some those friendships.

I am pleasantly surprised to hear how positivly Southern Africans accept Americans, since after many decades of being very close philosophically on issues of personal liberty for citizens and international affairs we essentially abandoned them to a hostel world over race relations. I found our actions embarassing and hypocritical, since we only sorted out our own race issues rather recently and should have stood by our stalwart friends while they sorted out theirs.

Except for their race relations, which they were working to mitagate, I doubt that many can seriously and sincerely disagree that Rhodesia and RSA were very close philosophically to the best of our political values. Indeed, they may have modernly been ahead of we Americans in the keystone differentiating the American view of civil rights and political will: the focus on the individual rather than the group.

Africans of European descent deserve credit for distinguishing among the US government, some ill informed but well meaning Americans, our loony radical activists, and the reasoning Americans they meet as sportsmen.

Fireplug

Funny thing is, when I spent some time in Kazakhstan a few years back, the folks I got along the worst with, were some of the American expats, ie ugly Americans.

As Saeed says, people are people around the world. The thing is, the way to see that is to visit and interact with them, not from snips out of McNewspaper or soundbites on the evening news.

We all are guilty of those attitudes as well. I know that Alaskans are buy and large the nicest folks you'll meet, sit down and visit and everyone has an interesting story of how and why they live here. You'll often break into conversations with complete strangers in store check out lines here. But, there is a strong sentiment towards tourists that they should leave their money, and stay out of our way, especially on the roads.

Canuck,

Canada is difficult for Americans to classify in international discussions, because we have yet to decide whether to make you a state, a teritory, or more than one of each. What is your vote, assuming we give Canadians the vote?

Sorry I had to,
Fireplug

OK, as an "African" let me weigh in here. I do a bit of business (not hunting) with American folk, and there are some folk I've made good friends with, and some I didn't take to at all - and they didn't take to me - that happens with everybody.

On the whole, with American hunting folk, I've generally found them to be good natured honest people who just want to have a good time for the money they've invested. And by the same token, we as hosts are doing our level best to make sure you are having a great time so we do present our best table manners. I've made some excellent friends with some of the visitors - I've never met a loud-mouthed, boorish redneck yet and I doubt I ever will, cause I've no reason to believe they exist.....

But seriously, you have to lighten up on your preoccupation with calibre/bullet/rifle/CRF/pushfeed choice. It's all details. Obviously you have to have the appropriate calibre to the size of game you are seeking. Learn to be uncomplicated about your choice of clothing and footwear. Be a marksman who can take snap shots at animals and hit them in the boiler room. Do it with a simple uncomplicated calibre like a 30-06 or a 375. Do it with confidence. There isn't a species on this planet not been taken with either one. Don't sweat that your Fail-safe bullet might "fail", because if you stick the pill in the right place, it won't. The animal WILL fall over and die. 'tis written.

Gents, the name of the game is hunting and no amount of kit, accessories and doodads are going to substitute that skill and give you an edge that any buff or antelope cares about. Learn to be easy and comfortable in your surroundings with a minimum of kit, and you will have a better time of it. Let the PH sweat the details - its his job. Yours is to focus on the shot.

Don't consider bringing a pistol - it's not necessary and is actually a risk.

Sorry, just some observations - nothing personal.

Cheers

Pete

I just have to say it- If you were reading an article in USA Today and it was referring to some hunting perspective you disagreed with or know to be false, would you really give the paper and/or article any credibility? Then why would you give this article any credibility?

Saeed nailed it- people are people, simple as that.
My wife and I just spent the weekend visiting with
an old Army buddy and his German wife, who has stayed in contact with us for the last 26 years, along with several of our German friends we met while I was stationed over there.
My son was stationed in Serbia, among other places, and loved the Serbian people. Even now, the vast majority of them don't hold a grudge against Americans even after the bombings in Belgrade. My son even married a Serbian gal!

To lump a group of people into one narrow view of their whole society due to a few malcontents is short sighted in the extreme. That would be kind of like viewing all PH's by the example set by Mark Sullivan! I apologize to the PH's I just offended!

The fact is, I don't think I know a single person who is happy with our political system all the time- so why should others feel any differently about it?

As for Canada, well I thought I heard that BC and Alberta were thinking of conceding and becoming our 51st and 52nd state? Sure would make going across the border easier! - Sheister

I live a few miles from the Quebec border. Some of the Montreal and Quebec city tourists can be a little hard to take at times. But the farmers, loggers and everyday people you meet, are some of the hardest workers you'll ever see. They work hard, and play hard come evening!

I had the opportunity to work setting up the exhibit hall at this years Dallas Safari Club convention (as many others on this forum did). I saw people from around the world. They were not yet in their salesman mode - rather they were tired from travel, hot & hungry and looking at a long evening setting up their booths. They were still (as a group) the most polite and friendly people you could hope to meet. They were always thanking us for our help - some even tried to give me a tip. People who you read about in the classic hunting literature and people selling guns that cost more than all the cars I've ever owned put together treated me like an equal. People who have hunted all the animals I have only dreamed of hunting freely gave advice and encouragement. This is a big part of why I hunt. This is why I come to this forum. Saeed has created a place in cyberspace where we can have the same type of interaction (even when people with no manners provoke things). Character is what matters - not where you happen to live.

Hate americans no.

We hate the french, brits, swedes, germans etc more Just kidding

I have worked a bit at the local tourist office this summer you'd be suprised to see how many germans that don't speak anything but german that comes here! Luckily I speak a little bit german. And I was suprised on how many of them speak norwegina.

A italina man didn't speak anything else than Italiano. I had a hard time helping him I think he gor what he wanted.

To this day I haven't met a non native turist that wasn't friendly and smiling. Not any american there yet. You are most welcom.

Johan

Lets Face no matter where you come from, hunters get along with each other more than any other type of people. Not always but 90% of the times. Hunters should rule the world it will be more peacefull.

Safari-Hunt

Saeed,

I think it's the hardcore city dwellers from any country that can be hard to get along with.

It's my experience that country folk from any country get along well with each other. They know that everybody's $hit stinks the same.

Hunters, of course, fall into the latter category for the same reason.

Don

I don't think Southern Africans or Europeans in general for that matter have any particular dislike or hatred of Americans.

Some groups sure do, just the same as they do in Australia. After 9/11 there wasn't a word said, but bit by bit it started "it was deserved" etc. Unbelievable. It was once said "evil is the lack of empathy".

But only from very small minorities of usually disaffected wackos usually from the left side of politics. Filled with their usual envy of anyone who has more than them. But you would find groups like this in the US as well, even if they are more underground.

And with all these beliefs, they are usually held in ignorance, little or no personal experience. When ordinary people in person and interact meet there is usually no problem.

Governments on the other hand can be a lot different. As most of us would realise. But you can't blame the "man in the street" for what his government may or may not do.

Media does a good bit of "sh*t stirring" now and again. It's good for circulation. Don't believe everything you read.

The important thing in my opinion is to respect other people and their customs, especially when you are in their homes. You don't have to agree with them necessarily just be respectfull guests. And if you don't like it, move on. That's how I try to act.

Pete, Pete, Pete,
If we don't talk about push feeds, caliber etc, then where will this forum go..We simply must old boy!! Now if some of the illagitamate that pimp such abortions of nature such as pushfeeds, stainless steel, plastic anythings, would just wake up then we could continue down a road of true bliss and agreement....

Gentlemen

I belive the media in USA are trying to play the nationalistic tune, don't buy it.

I have friends from many different countries across this globe, different religions, color etc. What we have in common are that we all have been infected with the highly contagious hunting virus
It does not have to do with nationality or religion, but with persona. Assholes excists all over the world in different shapes, size, color etc. "there is always a few rotten eggs in the basket"

Cheers
/ JOHAN

In all the traveling I have done over the past 35 years, I have never been treated poorly because I am an American.And that includes traveling to France as well-I don't speak French, except for a couple of greetings, hello, thank you, etc. I think the key to this is to smile a lot, remain somewhat reserved, don't flash money around, and don't try to be the center of attention. Above all else be polite, and demonstrate good manners. These go a long way, not just abroad, but here at home.

Ray,

I could take issue about those stainless steel composite stocked pushfeed rifles 'cause I do happen to like them as they do perform very, very well for some shooting chores I have to perform such as baboon hunting and springbok shooting.

But my bush rifle, that is a conventionally wood stocked, blued Mauser 375, and I am making up a Mauser 300H&H with identical stock and barrel right now.

So yeah, there's place for both types at each end of the shooting spectrum. I like the new technology, but you have to tip your hat to tradition and nostalgia. It's a matter of respect for what gone before, and for what allows you to enjoy the same sport your forbears had.

Sorry, a bit off topic.

Pete

Luckly for me I no longer have to travel,unless I chose to,have several friends that still troop with the Legion,and are rude its just a French thing.For me with "SHTF" give me KIWIS,AUSSIES,CANUCKS, they will fight then ask questions and will never leave you behind.

Well folks, I simply do not know what you guys are talking about! I've traveled all over the world, and I have been treated worse, and seen more anti-American sentiment, on occasion, on the internet, than I have in any country, by any native,of any country! I simply have not experienced any ill will in Africa, by anyone! I think it all boils down to how you present yourself, that determines how you are accepted, or rejected! ORRRRRRRrrrrrrr It may be they are just very good actors!

The finest people I have met worldwide have all been hunters, shooters and hotrodders. The Germans, Norse, English, Autrailians, Canadians, Kenyans, Rhodesians, (I date myself) and all the others have treated me like a long lost brother come home, THANK YOU ALL! Richard.

PS real firearms are blued steel and wood, real CARS HAVE V8 ENGINES, FOUR SPEEDS, AND REAR WHEEL DRIVE.