Folks,

Below is an e-mail from Andrew Pringle/Crusader Safaris concerning the real situation with land seizures in RSA. He's a fairly large and successful operator in RSA.

Mark

A lot of it is sensationalist media reporting.


There is some truth in the story. Land in Africa is and always be a contentious issue. The unemployed and poor masses say the land was stolen by European settlers. With a election coming up next year the governing party is playing along to get votes. Thats my take on it.


Our new president is a very smart and successful man. He is in a tough position as he needs to keep the poor masses happy while still make sound economic decisions. In my opinion there will be a very structured land redistribution program. He has said as long as it is not detrimental to the economy, food security, employment and foreign investment he will redistribute land to those dispossessed.


Right now they are looking at urban, municipal and tribal land. Im sure that as long as the land is productive it will be safe.


Will keep you updated but nothing has changed. Right now there is a lot of talk and that is not unusual a year out from elections.


We have had a great season and look forward to 2019.


Regards,
Andrew

That is exactly what they told us Zimbabwe farmers - 'as long as your land is productive you are safe'! Ye right - look where that got us!!! This is a road I have traveled and it is an unpleasant one - I'd be very worried if I was a South African ranch/land owner at this point in time.

I don't buy it...…...the seed have been planted that the masses will get land for free and if anyone in SA think that after the elections things will just go away they are in for a big surprise...…..

In the news today they say they have taken over two game farms.

At 10% of their value!!

The nose of the camel underneath the tent.

I beleive I flew to Harare from Jo'burg. The monitors at the airport reported the first farm to be taken was a winery and they gave the owners 24 hours to vacate. On the SAA flight the plane's tv screens played the president's speech of land without compensation.
It was a major topic of discussion and opinion with the folks whom I was there with. Many are optimistic, others believe it will be violent.
It's a shame. Time will tell.
Cal

That's what was reported on the news today in my region. This does not bode well. I wager this is going to be much worse, much more violent than what happened in Zimbabwe. This is already a terrible tragedy in the making. No one but those in charge will benefit.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
In the news today they say they have taken over two game farms.

At 10% of their value!!

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
(snip)

A lot of it is sensationalist media reporting.


There is some truth in the story. Land in Africa is and always be a contentious issue. The unemployed and poor masses say the land was stolen by European settlers. With a election coming up next year the governing party is playing along to get votes. Thats my take on it.


Our new president is a very smart and successful man. He is in a tough position as he needs to keep the poor masses happy while still make sound economic decisions. In my opinion there will be a very structured land redistribution program. He has said as long as it is not detrimental to the economy, food security, employment and foreign investment he will redistribute land to those dispossessed.


Right now they are looking at urban, municipal and tribal land. Im sure that as long as the land is productive it will be safe.
(snip)

Sounds to me like something the Kulaks told themselves when informed of Stalin's intentions.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
In the news today they say they have taken over two game farms.

At 10% of their value!!

I read today that there are 30 more that are in the process as well. Much higher than 10% though.

I also have some heavy skepticism when I see reports from people who have so much skin in the game. What do you expect them to say, the sky is falling? News outlets aren't any better. I like to see articles on numbers and those kinds of facts versus the interviews of experts and others who basically are only asked about the worst case scenarios.

The price of compensation is, in the long run, irrelevant. Who's going to step up and run these farms? It's over. In the end, the RSA hunting industry is gone.

Most countries were originally taken from the natives.
Just think what the USA would be like if the indians got balls enough and could make it stick here.

George

My question stands. Who will step up and manage the heretofore sustainable hunting properties, be they big or small, that have stood as the foundation of RSA's hunting industry, for generations, and all which that means?

If the farm is large, it will be taken without compensation??!!

Wrap it in silk as much as you like!

Due to utter corruptions and total failure of the ruling politicians, they have turned to daylight ribbery!

People I know who used to go to South Africa, some have already cancelled their hunts, others are going through a wait-and-see period!

I do hope I am wrong, but I suspect this is a lot worse than happened in Zimbabwe, regarding hunting.

Hunters going to hunt to Zimbabwe hunted mostly on government concessions.

In South Africa most hunts are on private farms.

And I certainly have no wish to be on one when the robbers arrive to take it over.

I have come to the point that I avoid SA at all cost, I wount even be in transit at Joburg anymore..

Hate and animosity towards us based on skin color..?

I will take my money and spend them elsewhere, thank you..

Africa will never join the modern world as long as tribalism, corruption, greed, laziness and wanting something for nothing remains a daily occurrence.

Instead of robbing whites of their farms, why hasn’t the government done a farming co-operation?

Where families can be employed to earn enough to buy the farms from the government?

I suppose it is too much to ask for common sense when one can take away from others for free!!

I wonder if the seized land will go to Bushmen and Hottentots

Every land owner in SA should sell their land (or as large of percentage as possible)to Chinese investors and get out of the country. The Chinese have a knack for handling these sort of problems.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/n...try-to-offload-land/



White South African farmers try to offload land
Author Daily Mail, SectionWorld, Publish Date Tuesday, 21 August 2018, 10:34AM

White farmers in South Africa are trying to shift their land as fears grow that the Government is about to start a widespread campaign of seizures.

Union bosses say a record number of properties are for sale but nobody is buying, making the properties effectively worthless, the Daily Mail reports.


Agri SA union, which represents mainly white commercial farmers, has warned that such seizures will deter investment, cause job losses, and may rob South Africa of the ability to feed itself.

Two farms in the north of the country have reportedly become the first targets for seizures after talks between the Government and owners about buying the land broke down.

Akkerland Boerdery, the owners of two game reserves in Limpopo, told City Press that the Government asked to buy their land but was only willing to offer a tenth of the price.

When the offer was refused, ministers allegedly sent a letter which said: "Notice is hereby given that a terrain inspection will be held on the farms on April 5 2018 at 10am in order to conduct an audit of the assets and a handover of the farm's keys to the state."

AgriSA union spokeswoman Annelize Crosby told the paper: "What makes the Akkerland case unique is that they apparently were not given the opportunity to first dispute the claim in court, as the law requires."

If the land is seized it will be the first time that the South African Government has refused to pay market value for land.

Since the end of apartheid in 1994, the ANC has followed a 'willing seller, willing buyer' process to redistribute white-owned farms to blacks.

But according to a government audit last year, 72 per cent of farmland in South Africa is still owned by whites, despite them making up 9 per cent of the population.

That statistic prompted Cyril Ramaphosa, South Africa's President who succeeded Jacob Zuma last year, to commit to a programme of land expropriation.

His ANC party has promised to 'test out' section 25 of the constitution, which allows the Government to seize land to re-balance past racially discriminatory laws.

The constitution makes it clear that reasonable compensation must be offered to the owner of the land, but the ANC is now planning a number of test cases to see if land can be seized without money changing hands if it is "in the public interest".

If such bids fail, the ANC has threatened to amend the constitution.

A programme of land seizures in nearby Zimbabwe in the 1990s sent the country into an economic spiral from which it has never fully recovered.

Reports this month suggested ministers have already drawn up a list of 139 South African farms to be targeted, though the Government denies the existence of any such list.

Omri van Zyl, head of the Agri SA union, which represents mainly white commercial farmers, told the Express: "The mood among our members is very solemn.

"They are confused about the lack of any apparent strategy from the government and many are panicking.

"So many farms are up for sale, more than we've ever had, but no one is buying."

ANC chairman Gwede Mantashe sparked more panic last week when he suggested that anyone owning more than 10,117ha would be targeted.

Agri SA said about 20 per cent of South Africa's farms produce 80 per cent of the food, and many of those properties would be affected by the cap.

There are fears that the release of the list of 139 farms to be seized has already made the land worthless.

Cattle farmer Jo-an Engelbrecht told the ABC's Foreign Correspondent his farm just outside Johannesburg was now "worth zero".

"We had several auctions in the last two or three weeks cancelled because there was no people interested in buying the land," he said.

"Why would you buy a farm to know the Government's going to take it?"

In a way, the gov't has been extremely clever. The market value of farms is now a fraction of what it was a year ago. They don't need to change the constitution or even worry about being challenged in court, they just need to pay people what the land is worth today ... almost nothing, as witnessed by the auction results.

The problem with many of the properties on the list of farms to be expropriated that was published here recently is that they have been subdivided. What used to be, for example, a 5 000 hectare farm is now in actual fact hundreds of smaller properties in the form of small farms, plots and even individual stands with houses.

At least three of the properties on the list is close to Johannesburg/Pretoria and has been subdivided as such.

Government is, of course, denying the authenticity of the leaked list (as they would) but if they do expropriate these farms the implication would be that hundreds of properties will be taken in one fell swoop.

For some clarity:
President Trump tweeted about SA land being taken, etc. and did us (South Africans) no favour. Fox News apparently reported that farms have already been taken and the Constitution already changed.
Not true!
Yes, we must not be complacent, but the situation is far from lost. I agree entirely with the original post. Life continues and land prices in my district are higher than ever. The SA president is no fool and a die-hard capitalist, but he has to appease the far left. At least we are all having to confront an issue that has been on the boil for 350 years and my bet is that we will come out of this better for it.
I am not leaving yet!

quote:

Originally posted by Karoo:
For some clarity:
President Trump tweeted about SA land being taken, etc. and did us (South Africans) no favour. Fox News apparently reported that farms have already been taken and the Constitution already changed.
Not true!
Yes, we must not be complacent, but the situation is far from lost. I agree entirely with the original post. Life continues and land prices in my district are higher than ever. The SA president is no fool and a die-hard capitalist, but he has to appease the far left. At least we are all having to confront an issue that has been on the boil for 350 years and my bet is that we will come out of this better for it.
I am not leaving yet!

Couldn't agree more. I'll put it in SA lingo -

you okes must chill out...

SA has been through far worse with far more flawed presidents and we've resolved these issues in the end. As a landowner I see this as an opportunity to finally address a contentious issue with a president that has some economic and social sense. We can't have this issue hanging over our heads forever

https://www.news24.com/SouthAf...ural-sector-20180823

The president has said he wants to take over White farms without compensation.

And you think he is talking sense??

Beats me mate!

And best of luck to you all.

can whites buy land from the blacks that got it for free? Or is it seized again after that?

Agree, the land will be worth 0-10% of current market value and the South African kleptocracy can easily steal it back for a low price.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The president has said he wants to take over White farms without compensation.

And you think he is talking sense??

Beats me mate!

And best of luck to you all.

That’s now what u said. Sincerely though, thanks for the good wishes

Paying for the sins of the fathers !

Land expropriation, forcible removal of peoples from areas where they have live, forced buy outs of farms by a a sitting government all part of our history from the earliest times of european settlement of the country.....and sadly something that leaves me conflicted.

Some may conveniently have forgotten actions of the past Nationalist government.

District 6 Cape Town; the removal of some 60,000 coloured people from a municipal district that was proclaimed in 1867..... places like Lady Selbourne to the west of Pretoria..... as a medical student I did part of my Obstetrics training at the Holy Cross maternity hospital sitting strangely alone in a once vibrant community, the rest of the buildings around the hospital flattened by bulldozers....... then there was the forced buy outs of white farmlands so that Homelands could be created...... our own family farms on the border with Swaziland for the Swazi homeland of Kangwane. All over South Africa white farmers were forced to sell out so the government could create homelands.

Later we lost a farm outside the City of Pretoria at a place named Wahlmanthal by forced buy out and expropriation.

Ironic was that this became home to 44 para brigade and when conscripted to the military I did training in the very ruins of our farm buildings.

But there was more before and after the Boer war.

The very basis of current land claims to the farms on the western border of the Kruger Park.

The forcible removal of tribal peoples who habited the lands to the west of and within the confines of the the Park. A map of the locations of these kraals part of the history of the KNP and published in U de V Pienaar's monumental work on the history of the park. Then extensively researched by Jane Carruthers of the University of Cape Town.

When in the 90's rumblings came of land claims I sold a Mango farm on the banks of the Blyde river near Hoedspruit. Just in time because later the land was claimed and earmarked for expropriation.

Now what we always feared and predicted is coming to fruition and with it the threat of bloodshed for some may not just simply roll over and have their land taken

Friends there tell me that they know it is time to leave. The problem is how to recover enough from what they have built to fund flight and where to go that will accept them.

This may get very, very grim for many.

And like Zim SA may not be able to feed itself in the future.

Truly a situation where no one wins in the short or longer term.

Sums it up quite nicely.

https://youtu.be/a_bDc7FfItk

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Friends there tell me that they know it is time to leave. The problem is how to recover enough from what they have built to fund flight and where to go that will accept them.

This may get very, very grim for many.

And like Zim SA may not be able to feed itself in the future.

Truly a situation where no one wins in the short or longer term.

The ANC politicians are the short term winners.

They are lining their own pockets with as much as they can!

All kind sounds like Mau Mau to me...poverty...land...race...fanatical leadership...these added to modern-day politics and it’s watch your heads, gun in the soap dish, where’s the cook type of thing...

It is government sanctioned robbery.

Nothing else.

Saw an article here in the U.S. Today...
Started with Trumps Tweet... discussed the buildup since Apartheid...the supposed murders of white Farmers
Then...stated this is a made up issue here by "White Nationalists (Supremacists)" and that there is no issue....nothing to see here folks....
The Left all around the world are truly out of control...

Saw the USA Today article myself. Amazing... they quoted some statistic that farm murders had actually decreased 47% since the 90's. Seriously? Lovely piece of investigative journalism there. I think it runs "if Trump is for it, we must be against it". Utterly unbelievable. No wonder no one trusts the media anymore.

BTW, the Laura Southern video, while long at an hour and thirteen minutes, is well worth watching.

Folks,

Below is an update from Andrew Pringle.


Mark

Just a quick update from South Africa. I am sure you, as I have has had to answer questions regards the land issue, safety and hunting areas in South Africa.


I have been following what has been reported in the US on Fox news. It seems that the media these days only look for sensationalist stories and do not let the truth stand in the way of a good story!!


There is a transparent, public and government in initiative right now that seeks to re balance past injustices regards land and society as a whole. This is a very important discussion and a emotional one to all the people in South Africa. The government, our president, the ruling party and AgriSA (represents all of organised agriculture in SA) have had very constructive discussions and released the following statement last week,


21 August 2018

Agri SA welcomes the ANC’s commitments on agriculture



Agri SA is encouraged by today’s productive discussion with senior ANC officials regarding agrarian reform and agricultural property. It is highly appreciated that specific policy commitments where made, among others:



No land grabs will be allowed.
The protection of productive agricultural land will remain a priority.
Optimising the use of fallow land in deep rural areas.
Property rights will remain a key priority in agrarian development.
Government is finalising an audit of state land for transfer to black farmers
Initiating production on 4 000 farms currently in government possession to unlock commercial value and create farming opportunities.


Agri SA and Agbiz met with David Mabuza, ANC Deputy President, and Paul Mashatile, ANC Treasurer General. This is in addition to the meeting between President Cyril Ramaphosa and Agri SA President Dan Kriek, to be held in Cape Town today.



I think Trump was misinformed as to what is really happening and the Fox News story is factually incorrect. We are all positive regards land ownership and want to be part of, and understand the need to transform land ownership.



Nothing that was reported in the US media is true, safety is not a issue and the areas we hunt are unchanged. I am looking forward to a great 2019 and am very confident that this will be handled in a responsible manner.



Regards,

Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Folks,

Below is an update from Andrew Pringle.


Mark

Just a quick update from South Africa. I am sure you, as I have has had to answer questions regards the land issue, safety and hunting areas in South Africa.


I have been following what has been reported in the US on Fox news. It seems that the media these days only look for sensationalist stories and do not let the truth stand in the way of a good story!!


There is a transparent, public and government in initiative right now that seeks to re balance past injustices regards land and society as a whole. This is a very important discussion and a emotional one to all the people in South Africa. The government, our president, the ruling party and AgriSA (represents all of organised agriculture in SA) have had very constructive discussions and released the following statement last week,


21 August 2018

Agri SA welcomes the ANC’s commitments on agriculture



Agri SA is encouraged by today’s productive discussion with senior ANC officials regarding agrarian reform and agricultural property. It is highly appreciated that specific policy commitments where made, among others:



No land grabs will be allowed.
The protection of productive agricultural land will remain a priority.
Optimising the use of fallow land in deep rural areas.
Property rights will remain a key priority in agrarian development.
Government is finalising an audit of state land for transfer to black farmers
Initiating production on 4 000 farms currently in government possession to unlock commercial value and create farming opportunities.


Agri SA and Agbiz met with David Mabuza, ANC Deputy President, and Paul Mashatile, ANC Treasurer General. This is in addition to the meeting between President Cyril Ramaphosa and Agri SA President Dan Kriek, to be held in Cape Town today.



I think Trump was misinformed as to what is really happening and the Fox News story is factually incorrect. We are all positive regards land ownership and want to be part of, and understand the need to transform land ownership.



Nothing that was reported in the US media is true, safety is not a issue and the areas we hunt are unchanged. I am looking forward to a great 2019 and am very confident that this will be handled in a responsible manner.



Regards,

Andrew

I hope you are correct but I suspect you would make this same statement if your farm was currently circled by EFF thugs ready to break down the gates and take over. You guys are in a tough spot. Good luck.

I certainly hope is right.

Who do we believe??

Reports I have read today state that certain members of parliament are adamant this WILL pass.

One of the farmers whose land was supposed to be taken over said he will fight it.

I think the safety of hunters, once they are out of the airport and cities, is not a problem, and has never been.

Lot of folks talking about "returning the land to the rightful owners" in Africa.
When I took American History in college in the very early 1970's the professor was probably one of the five sharpest teachers I have ever had in my life. One day in class he was berated by a student who bemoaned the Native Americans "losing their land to the white man". This professor challenged the student with a statement to the effect that, from his knowledge of American History, that with the exception of the Pueblo Indians, virtually every tribe that the "white man displaced" were not the original "owners" of the land, and the "displaced" tribe got that land by either extermination or enslavement of another tribe, and he could prove it. I wonder if the same is true in Africa? FWIW, the professor freely admitted that the Native Americans got a raw deal, but he reiterated that they weren't the "first environmentalists" that many claim.

The "rightful owners", if they ever owned the land (and in the legal sense, most did not), are all long dead. A great deal of the land was not occupied at all, back in the pioneering days. So how does one now conclude who the "rightful owner" of any given piece of land is?

Yes, there were some forced evictions in RSA (as well as the USA) by Europeans. This issue was addressed by the land claims process, which allowed the descendants of those evicted to reclaim those lands. The Bantu peoples evicted the San people from many areas. The Zulus evicted just about everyone, notably the Ndebele people that they chased up into what is now Zimbabwe.

This notion that it's unfair that some have more stuff than others is just a rehash of Lenin's warped ideas ("from each according to his ability ... ). The same logic can be applied to houses, cars, jewelry, and cash. The whites have most of it. Hand it over.

What RSA should have done, is to put all this farm land in corporate ownership as is increasingly the case in the USA. What color is a corporation?

Can’t correct stupidity and greed