I am considering having a .400 plus DG gun built and I am struggling with the caliber. Most of us would opt for a .458 Lott because it's now a standard cartridge and gives additional power over the .458 Win mag. What I don't understand is the case capacity. Hoffman says that even in the .416 Hoffman you could'nt shoot 400 gr Barnes bullets because they took up too much powder capacity. Does the necking up of the .375 case to .458 give enough additional capacity to shoot 500gr bullets at acceptable velocities? I thought that I would go with the .404 case for additional case capacity. I had thought that if I used the Rem Ultra mag cases necked up to .416 there might a chance that some day Remington would release a .416 Ultra Mag and my wildcat would become a standard load. If I went up to .458 I would be shooting esentially a .460 G&A. Can anyone answer my concerns regarding case capacity and calibers in this size range.Thanks for the help.

Mufasa

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Does the necking up of the .375 case to .458 give enough additional capacity to shoot 500gr bullets at acceptable velocities? I thought that I would go with the .404 case for additional case capacity

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The .458 Lott IS the .375 case necked up!! This is also true of the .416 Remington and the .470 Capstick. Any of those are truly enough power to make you happy and test one's ability to tolerate recoil.

If you can tolerate more power (recoil) you need to look to weatherby's 416 and 460.
The 416 Rigby and the 404 Jeffery are roughly similar to the 416 Rem Mag in power.

If you can't do it with the .375 H&H case.....you probably don't want it done.

mufasa

I think it is reasonable to saay that 1000s of people over many years have clearly established that the 416 Remington and 458 Lott produce the required results on the animals.

But the 416 Rigby, 416 Wby, 450 Rigby, 450 Dakota and 460 Wby offer much geater loading flexibity. In 416 bore size the same applies to the 416 Ultra, which by the way is almost identical to the 416 Dakota.

Some of the negatives with the "big ones" are brass cost, ammo cost, availability and in the case of the 416 Wby/Rigby and 450 Dakota/Rigby and 460 Wby rifle action availability is some what more limited.

If you are a person who would rather drive a real quick V8 manual on a trip through the suburbs than a 4 cyclinder but get there in the same time because of speed and/or traffic restrictions, then the big ones are for you.

Mike

Either a .416 Remington or .458 Lott is plenty of gun for anything you'll ever hunt, plus both are standard factory cartridges without the numerous drawbacks of a wildcat. Both are based on the .375 H&H case, both feed extremely well, and both are real killers. So why complicate your life with anything else?

AD

Without an extended magazine you will loose a round with the Rigby size case over the H&H.

Hog Killer

In my view, the "natural progression" up the power chain in magazine rifles is as follows:

.375 H&H
.416 Rigby (or Remington)
.458 Lott
.500 A-Square (or Jeffery)

These are the logical steps, it seems to me. All are standard, factory cartridges. As for more power even than the .500s, there isn't much practical need to go above the .458 Lott in power, and virtually no real need of any kind to go above the big .500s.

Intervening steps up the chain between one of these specified steps and the next, such as the .378 Weatherby/.375 RUM, the .416 Weatherby/Dakota, the .458 Winchester, the .460 Weatherby (and similar, i.e., .450 Rigby/Dakota, etc.) and all of the various .470s are distinctions without much difference from their next lower powered counterparts on the list.

I am a believer that if more power is needed, you shouldn't stick with the same caliber bullet using a larger case, but you should instead go to a bigger bore with enough case capacity to justify the step upwards.

Everything mentioned thus far is pretty much how it is, from my own experience working with all of the calibers mentioned.
The 416 Rem. gets the most out of it's case capacity, when one considers it can easily shove a conventional 400gr bullet to 2400fps. The 458 Lott doesn't do as well in it's bore size as the 416 does in it's diameter. Most Lott rifles with a 24" barrel will struggle to make 2300fps with safe pressures. In talking with my friend/gunbuilder, who makes a number of them, 2250fps seems to be where most fall. Still better than a 458Win, but not up to the "magical" 2400fps level that many of us desire.
I might add here that the Lott suffers a bit when a long monometal bullet is used. The cases have barely adequate capacity to start with but trying to cram an extra long bullet into them just makes it worse. If I still owned my Lott and wanted to use these type bullets I'd be looking to use 450gr or similar weights to keep the velocity I wanted in the first place.
The 450 Dakota or 460Wby is an infinitely better case for a 45cal to be built on, IMO. Velocity can be as much as the owner wants or can tolerate. Any bullet can be loaded with no trouble or ill effects of any kind, allowing the owner to have his cake and eat it too! My own 450 can idle along at 2350fps with very mild pressures, about the same as a 416 Rigby with 400grs. I have enough velocity to make me happy, with no concerns for any type of pressure trouble. In the event I might need factory ammo, no concern there as both Wby and Dakota make lots of it.

Thanks for the input. I think I'm falling into the bigger is better catagory because of the flexibilty of loading. I just thought the .375 Ultra Mag case would make a nice round necked up to .416 or .458. Hogkiller, we're from the same county.

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Originally posted by mufasa:
Hogkiller, we're from the same county.

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Sent you a PM. I have a 458 Lott if you would like to try it out for recoil/size, PM or e-mail me.

Hog Killer