Does anyone have any experience with any of the advertised shooting schools such as Gunsite in Arizona? I am going to Zambia in the summer and I am interested.

Thinks

Sprig

Four time graduate of Old Gunsite when Jeff Cooper ran it -- three pistol courses and one rifle course. Also, know many other graduates. Have also spent a month in Africa with Jeff Cooper during the Babamkulu Trek. Am also familiar with other schools.

Would highly recommend anyone who is contemplating spending money on another gun to spend it on training instead. Many schools can improve our field shooting performance far more than any equal or greater expenditure on capital investment (guns, scopes, other toys).

If you come prepared to learn and not to impress others with what you already know, Gunsite is great. Highly recommend Gunsite.

Gunsite is strictly about practical field use of the gun. There is no attention on benchrest or rifle testing. Your African PH will be impressed, not by the claim of having been to Gunsite, but by how well you will handle the rifle in the field.

If letting everyone else know what you can already do is important to you, Gunsite will not be a good experience.

In a totally other shooting field, look forward to going to Tony Boyer's benchrest shooting school sometime.

Hammer

Hammer, Thanks for the quick info. I am looking to improve my rifle shooting. I know I have alot to learn although I have been deer hunting a long time. (40 years).

Although I shot a world clas whitetail last year (164), missed a 180 class deer at 200 yards.

I don't want to go to Africa knowing I could shoot better if I had invested time.

I sense that the instructors are no nonsense. If so are they good teachers or just know it alls. What I mean is this, some people in the gun industry seem to hold on to their expertise and have a holier than thou attitude.

The absence of that attitude is what I like about this forum

Sprig

Gunsite used to have a Safari Prep course. I do not know if they still do.
You could also contact Thunder Ranch. I have been to some of their rifle schools in TX but they have moved to Oregon.
Clint Smith ran Gunsite for Cooper before starting Thunder Ranch.
A good shooting school is worth every penny.

Where are the schools in Texas? I live in Oklahoma and I wish I could find something closer to home than Arizona.

Sprig

most of the schools I know of are all defensive orientated. To learn how to shoot better, save the money from buying rifles, schools etc. and buy more ammo. Then go out and shoot it up. alot of shoot is muscle retention memory, and you can only get that with repetative motion. Another way to help is to just sit in front of the TV with your gun and pratice pulling up and shooting at a given target on TV (old westerns work great for this.)If you belong to a club or have one nearby to join, ask some of the older target shooters for some help coaching, they will be happy to help. But above all - go shooting

Bullsprig,

Never heard Cooper or any of his instructors ever talk about their personal shooting accomplishments and never heard one brag. The instructors' sole focus is improving the performance of their students.

Among instructors, Larry Larsen had won multiple state IPSC championships. We only learned about it ten plus years after our first trip to Gunsite in casual conversation with other people. Dennis Tueller also had multiple championships and it was years before we heard it from other sources. Cooper is very reserved about discussing his personal field experience. Cooper's African friends, who experienced his skill first hand, will share stories about Cooper when he is not around.

At Gunsite, Cooper and the instructors don't want the school to be about them or competition among storytellers. It is about improving your field performance.

Hammer

Butchloc,



Agree with the part about lots of practice. Both with live ammo and even dry fire.



Also, agree that many schools are defensive in nature, as is Gunsite's pistol courses.



But Gunsite's 270 rifle course is a true field shooting course.



Will respectively disagree with one part of your answer.



Forget shooting for a moment. Have observed many people in many fields who invested lots of practice without proper instruction first. The amount of quackery and poor habits that cannot be broken is enormous. Practice of proper technique is important. Practice of bad habits cannot be overcome.



Have heard golf pros, surgeons, lawyers, and engineers whine about the butchery caused by highly practiced bad habits.



Proper instruction first. Then practice.



One piece of evidence of poor habits can be seen at any rifle range. Just observe the ratio of shooters who hug the benchrest as opposed to practicing field positions. Not too many benchrests in the Okavango.



Have been shooting and handloading for over thirty years and have invested a lot in capital and materials. Have had pleasure and success in it. Still wished that I had spent some time and money with Elmer Keith, Bob Hagel, Warren Page, P. O. Ackley, Fred Sinclair, Harvey Donaldson, etc on handloading technique before spending the money on equipment and burning so much powder.



Got a daughter in school in neurology. Hope she gets the proper instruction before she practices surgery (at least on me).



Hammer

Bullsprig;

I have attended Gunsite for pistol and rifle training. Last year prior to my very successful elephant hunt I took a private tutorial at Gunsite to hone my BIG gun skills. I was able to take my elephant with 1 frontal brain shot, for which I credit my Gunsite instruction.

Gunsite uses very positive reinforcement. The first time I took a class, it was a life changing experience (and I'm a woman).

If you plan to attend the SCI Convention in Reno, Gunsite will have a booth there.

Also FYI, Clint Smith's Thunder Ranch in Mountain Home, Texas (not far from the YO Ranch) has closed its operation there. It was also a great school which I attended a multiple occassions.

I would highly recommend Gunsite to novice or very experienced hunters...and they still offer the Hunter's Prep class.

Regards, D. Nelson

Do you guys have links to the various schools mentioned in here handy?? Thanks in advance.

- mike

"I don't want to go to africa knowing I could shoot better had I invested the time."

Some of the best common sense thinking I've seen in a while regarding enjoying your safari.

I asked my PH on day 5 why he had never given me a "safety speech" regarding me walking around behind him with a loaded gun. He replied ,"I saw what I needed the first day." I was really proud of myself at that moment and considered it quite a compliment.

Bullsprig,

At the end of the Gunsite training week, there is a friendly man-on-man shoot-off using field positions.

Have seen many people with only that one week under their belt outshoot people with a lifetime of experience.

Hammer

Ah, Google to the rescue:

Gunsite

Thunder Ranch

- mike

Bullsprig,

I have done shooting courses at Gunsite (AZ)and Front Sight (NV). I did two rifle week-long courses at Gunsite, and then took my wife to a 2-day school that FS puts on.

There are also traveling instructors who put on hunting rifle courses.

I strongly recommend taking one of these courses. They will equip you with skills you won't get anywhere else ("perfect practice makes perfect"). Outfitters I have hunted with really like the results, and say so.

Clint Smith is moving his school from Texas to Oregon.

jim

Ok, Ladies and gentlemen, You sold me. Now, do I take the rifles I plan on shooting in Africa (300WSM and 375 HH) or go down to an easier choice on the sholder like my 270. 600 rounds is alot for a 300.

Sprig.

The Gunsite rifle course is typically 600 fired rounds.

Might consider taking a PAST recoil shield both to the shooting class and to Africa.

This sounds ridiculous, but would be tempted to take both African rifles and your 270 to Gunsite. Expect to shoot mostly the 270 -- maybe 500 rounds from it. Then split the remainder between the other two rifles. But an argument for only taking the 270 could well be made.

One thing you learn both at Gunsite and in Africa is that programmed reflexes are important. Sounds like all three of your rifles are different -- short action on the 300 WSM, medium length action on the 270, and long action on the 375 H&H. This could cause troubles.

Know of one fellow who is an extremely good field rifle shooter. Have shot with him a lot. While in Africa, his rifle broke and he was loaned a Blaser to hunt with. In the practice area he could make it work smoothly, but in the field under hunting conditions he was handicapped.

Even the position of the safety can cause problems. Switching from a Browning to a Winchester safety is an issue.

This isn't like at the range when time is not much of a constraint. The target animal might take leave right now or five minutes from now, but he won't tell you his plans in advance.

Some people think that the switching from one system to another is more of a problem for the highly experienced individual than the novice. Some trap shooters tell me that the highest level competitor can be thrown off his game by a minute change in the equipment whereas the amateur isn't effected at all by it.

Enjoy the variety in mechanical operation and power levels of all the available rifles we have today. But prior to African trips, practice a lot with the one system to be taken. Am a hypocrite in that use a double 500 Nitro for buffalo but bolt actions for other game.

Good luck.

Hammer