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Quote: But Steve, your British and have to say that. Stiff upper lip! But - the Australian army did exhaustive tests on various 4WDs including Mercedes, Landrover, Toyota, Jeep etc etc. And due to the lower gearing differentials (do I know what I am talking about?  ) discounted the non-Mercedes and Landrover.After driving them for the equivalent of years in snow, rocks, deserts, sand, swamps etc, they picked the Landrover. Of course driver and passenger comfort are not a high priority or highway cruising speeds. Or cost for that matter. Having said that, the testing staff were probably Poms! *** John-the-Greek It is a personal thing. Any race that tortures and eats dogs does not get my spending cash. | |||
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Quote: Well, I have had several occations to show the opposite! We've towed, winched and helped out with Land Cruisers in trouble. The thing is that most of the problems were because of lack of knowledge on the drivers side. Any idiot can get any kind of vehicle in trouble, or break something, if he/she doesn't know what they are doing, or if they drive without mechanical sympathy. Our Land rover Defender ran problem free from the North Cape of Norway to Cape Agulas in RSA. A total of about 65000 km. The TD5 turbo diesel didn't so much as have a hickup. Many people are a bit sceptical about the TD5 because it has electonics. The fear is of course many about water. We had water up to the front hood while in Malawi, and encountered no problems. The thing is that all newer (1999 and on) Land Cruiser HJ78 (the "primative" 3rd world version with a 4.2 liter non-turbo diesel most see whle on safaris) has electronics too! It's just that most people don't realize it! And Toyota doesn't go out and shout about it either! Although I have a Defender, I have have no problem admiting that the HJ78 has some important benifits over the Land Rover. One of which is the larger engine. But to be fair, this isn't a problem in almost all african situations. It was in the sand dunes in Mauritania, Niger, Sudan etc. that the 2.5 liter was a bit small with a 3300 kg Defender. More revs were needed than would be with the 4.2L Toyota. There is also no doubt in my mind that the Toyota will last longer under difficult conditions. If I were to drive through africa again (which might well happen in a few years!), I would seriously consider a Land Cruiser HJ78 with it's reliable, truck like components. On the other hand, Land Rover parts are generally available almost everywhere. Even in the Toyota dominated ex-french countrys. All in all, throughout the continent we've seen pretty much a blend of both makes, and as long as the mechanical components (axles, gears, diffs, springs etc.) are kept rather simple as they are on both these vehicles, bush mechanics can fix them. At least enough to get to a bigger town. The reason I mention mechanical components and not engines is that engine failure is extremely uncommon for both the TD5 and Toyotas 4.2L and neither can have much done with them outside a "real" workshop anyway. It's important to realize that both above models have nothing to do with "modern" products made by both companys. The Land Cruiser 100, Prado, Discovery etc. are for city and weekend use! We didn't see more than a handfull of Nissan Patrols in a few countrys, and thus I can't comment on them! We never saw any far from towns though, and definatly never in remote desert areas. When it comes to the Hyuandai, We saw lots of them in citys as mini-vans etc, but never any "4x4 safari" cars. Since they probably cost a quarter of a new Toyota, you could definatly get some use out of them, and just trade them in quicker. As for the H1, you'll never find a singel spare part in basically the whole continent! Not to metion that it's width wouldn't get you very far in a lot of the Sahel and east/southern african bush! Even our Defender was too narrow sometimes! Erik D. www.dunia.no | |||
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Erik, Well written post. I agree with everything you have said, or believe it, even though I have no first hand experience with either the Defender or the Toyoda you mention. This comment says it all: Quote: I haven't done much off-roading in Africa, but I understand sand dunes, mud, and crawling over rocks. I don't think too many posting on this thread do however. With regard to the H1. Wide is as wide does. I have seen H1's driven through some very narrow rock passages. Too narrow for a CJ to drive through. To imagine what was done think of driving on two wheels! H1 parts are not readily found here in the ol' USofA either, but it is with almost complete certainty the most capable off-road vehicle factory stock. Still would never buy one for $100K!!! Scott | |||
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Quote: Wow... ...Just.... ...wow... | |||
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Scot, I understand a little about dunes and boulder climbing and the truth is that the vehicles built for this type of work are not exactly "all rounders" and are poor in other respects. The Hummer is not really in the same class as the LandRover and the Toyota and if you want to go up a class to similar sized military derived vehicles there are plently out there to give the H1 a run for its mony off road. As an example, take a look at the Alvis Stalwart:  It looks pretty big in the picture, but actually is not that much bigger than the Hummer apart from its height. This will eat a Hummer off road! And its swims like a fish with out prep too! I picked a vehicle I know, but there are plenty out there but I don't think any would be really practical for what we are taking about here. Getting back to realistic Safari vehicles, if there is a need for something bigger than a long wheel base Landy ie as a stores or base vehicle, I would think some sort of Unimog truck would be ideal or perhaps an ex RSA military truck with 4x4...Russian GAZ trucks would be common/popular in certain parts of Africa filling a similar niche... Regards Pete | |||
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Scot, OK, I told a white lie in my last post! The Stalwart is a bit bigger than the Hummer; its about a foot wider and a couple of feet longer...still a beast of a machine though! Also take a look at the pics below, any comments?   Regards, Pete | |||
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Quote: Looks like one hell of a car Pete. But they must have been in a rush - the steering wheel is mounted on the wrong side.  | |||
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Pete E The Toyota mega cruiser seems to be a nifty ride, a bit wide. No wonder why the Amricans are pissed, It looks very simular to a Humwee. I would rather prefer an ordinary Land *****    than this beast.Cheers / JOHAN | ||
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Scott, I see your point with the 2 wheel bolder climbing stuff. However, when I mentioned narrow in the Sahel, and eastern/southern african bush, it's more exactly that. Bush! Thornbush etc. that after years of little use, make old tracks too narrow for a wide vehicle to get through. Naturally, doing the 2 wheel thing isn't possible! The only solution is to have a "narrow" vehicle, turn around and find a new route or get out a chainsaw and clear a few hundred km of nasty thornbush  Which is why we in our Defender were able to go to some areas that friends of ours in Unimogs etc. couldn't get to. Driving over/through isn't an option either if you want to get very far...Thus, a Land Rover or Toyota is undoubtably the most practical for african conditions. As for Stalwarts (and other military vehicles incl. the H1), I'd be sceptical about using something like that in africa simply because your chance of be shot at would greatly increase! You would not belive the paranoia that is found amonst most african military/police personel in the more "unrestfull" areas of the continent. Most in the north of course like in Niger, Chad and western Sudan. Anything percieved as military (like a Stalwart would be) would be veiwed as a possible and likely enemy! Garanteed! In fact, we were put under arrest in northern Kenya (in a small town named Mado Gashi) simpley because we came down a route near the Somali border that was unusual. The police stationed there hadn't seen any white people in the area for the past 3 years... Thus the drunk police chief automaticlly thought we might be Al-Qaeda terrorists, sneaking in the through the back door, as apperantly happened with the Mombassa bombing. All our papers, passports, maps etc were confiscated and It took hours to convince him that as Norwegians, it was rather unlikely that we were muslim fundimentalists... It ended up OK though cause we got 2 heavily armed escorts with grenades and all the next day for free, through the operational area as they called it. At that time there were usually a couple of ambushes and shootings per week... As a supply truck, Unimogs and simular trucks are very much used with safari operators and a PH friend of ours, Rory Guthrie, told us he had used one exploring northern Mozambique a few years ago. The main reason was because of its load carrying capabilities. A perhaps just as good or maybe even better truck is the Pinzgauer (http://www.pinzgauer.uk.com) A great vehicle if someone else is paying the bill! Erik D. www.dunia.no North Cape to Cape Agulas 2002/03     | |||
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Erik Your trip was the stuff dreams are made of. Any future trips planned? | |||
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AFRICA: This is Land Rover country! On a quite night you can hear the Toyotas rust! | |||
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What if the PH's safari car was a Hyuandai? I would open the door, get in and go hunting. That is what I came for, not to find fault with every little thing I could. | |||
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Quote: Surely. But do you know why they didn't invent television? They would have; they were actually ahead of us, but their engineers could never figure out how to get the television to leak oil. | |||
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