Anyone have any actual experience to report using Hornady Interbond bullets on thick skin game, particularly buffalo? Heard that the old Interlock bullets had a tendency to come apart. They are a helluva lot cheaper than Woodleighs and Swifts, but I am troubled by the reminder that sometimes you get what you pay for.

Mike

Mike, My father and I have found some .416 hornadys that we shot while target shooting, and they did in fact come apart. Some say that they are fine and too use them, but I can not say the effects on game becouse we have not used them while hunting.
Recently hornady has improved their bullets and they have jumped in price to about $40 a box, so you might as well buy the woodleighs IMHO.

Interbonds are about 25% cheaper than the Woodleighs. That's $0.70/bullet versus $0.95/bullet. Not enough to lose sleep over, but if the Interbond bullet is a good bullet, I would certainly like to save the money that is why I thought I would check around.

MJ,

Those Interbonds are so new to the scene that I've not heard any reports yet on game. They're bonded core bullets now and the jacket material is different also. It would have to be a significant improvement over the cup n core design of the Interlock.

How they stack up against the Woodleighs I don't know.

Mike,

The word I get is that interbonds are made to be used on thin-skinned game. They tend to over-expand for good penetration on Eland or larger game.

EDIT TO ADD:
I would think that they'd be good on lion or brown bear, but I'd use North Fork softs if I ever got to hunt them.

Don G,

While we're on the subject... How about the new Hornady solids? They're not steel jacketed anymore, some other alloy. Heard any word on those?

quote:

Originally posted by 458RugerNo1:
Don G,

While we're on the subject... How about the new Hornady solids? They're not steel jacketed anymore, some other alloy. Heard any word on those?

Have not heard a lot, I have some of them (I believe in both 458 and 416), but I have never tried them even on water jugs. I have heard that they "fishtailed" and squeezed lead out the back if/when they turned sideways. I do not know how often this happens, or if it was caused by too low of a twist rate. I have read on these pages that the same thing sometimes happens to Woodleigh solids, but again I have no idea of frequency.

The monometal solids have the problem of being a little longer for a given weight (taking up powder room and costing velocity), but they will at least hold their shape.

Whether that matters if they turn sideways is a good question that I can't answer. I don't know if lead-filled solids fishtail because they turn sideways, or turn sideways because they fishtail!

I will never get enough first-hand experience with solids to know, so I'll just stick with the monometal solids in my bolt rifles.

Its not good if the FMJ bullets flatten at the base creating a fishtail because they then start swimming all over the animal. The most extreme example of this I ever saw was on a very old buffalo bull lying in a mudhole in the open. I had a French and a German client and the French client was shooting 500 grain Remington lead core FMJ solids in 458 Winchester. He shot the buffalo four times and it did not move much.

This was in 1993 I just forget why it did not run away but it stayed and died in the same place. It was an open dried up mud pan and when we rolled the buffalo over we found three of the four solids, all flattened at the tail, on the ground. They had made a 90 degree turn in the width of one buffalo and come out the chest.

Mostly it doesn't matter. They end up working anyway on side on shots but where it does matter is on a buffalo running at you or charging. I once had a client shoot a buffalo running at us on top of the nose with a 9.3x62 solid and he brained the buffalo but the bullet flattened inside the brain, bent, and ended up down in the buffalo's chest.

That worked out OK but if he had hit bone but missed the brain and the bullet had gone downwards the buffalo would have kept coming. And the bullet would not have had the momentum to keep going and hit the spine.

You have two chances per shot with a charging buffalo. The first is hitting the brain which is not large. The second, if you miss the brain, is having the bullet carry on and hit the spine behind which is larger than the brain. But for that you need a bullet that does not deform (a monolithic solid) that has enough momentum to keep going.

You have one chance with a lead filled FMJ that bends and you have two chances with an unbendable mono solid that keep going. But I have found that mono solids up 375 sometimes bend. I am not sure about 416 mono solids. I have never had a 458 calibre mono solid bend. I have had a 458 FMJ solids stop in a buffalo's brain but my 450 Ackley keeps charging right on through. I have shot a charging buffalo on the nose with my 450 Ackley and had the bullet go under the brain but kill the buffalo anyway by carrying on and breaking the spine. That's what I like in a buffalo gun. The client had shot the buffalo three times in the head with 375 softs as he came and they had no effect at all. I have read on this forum that if you use a big enough calibre and heavy enough bullet and shoot a buff in the chest you can stop him. I disagree. You have to hit the central nervous system.

I have only ever heard of one stopping rifle that worked with a chest hit. I had a Canadian friend named Don Upton who volunteered to fight in Viet Nam. He ended up in the artillery. He said he once shot an NVA pack elephant with a large artillery piece and that it vaporized the elephant.


VBR,


Ted Gorsline

Can you believe this???Cost of the bullets when you are paying thousands for a dangerous game safari.ADVICE- stay home, you cant afford it....

I figured that it would not be long before someone with a chip on their shoulder made a hateful or disparaging comment. This forum is a fine venue unfortunately there are a handful of jerks that in response to a legitimate question cannot resist the temptation to let their sour disposition show through.

Insofar as your latter comment about staying home since I cannot afford the trip, you sir, are a fool.

Thanks to the others for the constructive and insightful comments.

Mike: I think the jury's still out on the IBs as they are a new bullet. If you do a search, Woodeigh softs are not the end-be-all some make them out to be. I also don't buy the "they are made for thin skinned game" angle either. Why would you go through the trouble of making a bullet for 375 and up that are normally used for buffalo for example, and not design to the task at hand?
You didn't mention the caliber you are referring to, but might I suggest you look at the Barnes TSXs. Absolutely outstanding bullet and the reports from the field have been outstanding. I've used the A Frame on buffalo with good results, but I must confess I am switching wholesale to TSXs in virtually every caliber I own. Normally cost isn't that big issue for me when it comes to bullets, but the TSXs are considerably cheaper than A Frames.

Another cost factor to consider is the fact that Woodleighs are imported and Hornadys are home grown so that in my view explains the higher cost of the Woodleigh. As for the normal Interlocks, I don't think shooting them and dirt mounds is a good indicator of performance. I personally would not use them on a high dollar hunt when there are better bullets available, but by the same token IF all I had were Hornady Interlocks, it would not deter me from going hunting! good luck, jorge

I am looking at the Interbonds for use in my Blaser S-2 Safari in .500/.416 Nitro. I have been shooting Woodleighs, but thought I would try the Interbonds. Like you, I have had great success with Swift A-Frames on a prior trip to Africa albeit on plains game. A little leery of the Barnes given all the talk about mono-metal bullets in doubles.

In my .470 Heym, I am using the Woodleighs. Tried the Barnes but was having trouble getting the action to close with them regardless of how deeply I seated the bullet. Again, hard to beat the A-Frame but there is not even an Interbond option here.

With the 2006 season cranking up, perhaps some hunting reports with the Interbonds will start to roll in.

I'd stick with the Woodleighs then as I think most doubles prefer them. That's the impression I get anyway. Good luck. jorge

Good Day to all

The Hornady IB , is in my opinion excellent value , I have unfortunately onluy used it on Eland and Giraffe so far, as well as a assorted smaller stuff raging from Bluewildebeest too Blesbuck.

My conclusion , 22 shots fired and not one bullet recovered !!! not even on the giraffe,

Exit holes on eland and giraffe shoewd that bullet has expanded a lot and wounds showed a defintely star shaped tear . with three petals might be ?

I have also used the 458 IB , once again I am a unfortunate PH, in that my clients on DG normally have one shot kills, must be that I believe in the old adage of smoke two cigarettes ( if the clinet smokes) wait another 20 minustes and then follow up, I like my hide just as it is.

The 458's on plainsgame once again all exited in grand style and this load is hell on wheels with bushpigs !!!

I would not hesitate too use this on DG as first shot , all my backup rounds are solids in the Speer AGS tUNGSTEN VARIETY for obvious reasons.

Walter
www.kwansafaris.com

Oh yeah,



this stupid forgot too metion that the first 22 were in 416, the 458 about 15 now I think

quote:

Originally posted by Kwan:
Oh yeah, forgot too metion that the first 22 were in 416, the 458 about 15 now I think

Well, I stand corrected! If they exit on giraffe, they ought to work on buff!

Kwan, what kind of 416 was that? What velocity do you think you were getting?

Thanks,

In my test of over 20 premium 458 caliber bullets the Hornady IB was one of the "softest," tested.

Velocity from 450 Dakota was 2,350 - 2,400 fps for 500 grain bullets.



Above is photo of expanded 465 grain Dead Tough, 500 grain Woodleigh PP, and 500 grain Hornady IB. The IB is on right side with brass colored jacket.



The 450 and 500 grain Kodiak which like the IB are conventional cup and draw jackets with bonded core, retained alot more weight and frontal area without having to use a partition or soild base.

Still, the IB performed about the same as the more expensive Trophy Bonded Speer.



The 400 and 450 grain North Fork bonded soft points (shown here at PB and 100 yards) were by far most reliable 458 bullet made.



The 500 grain Swift, 450 and 500 grain Kodiak were also excellent.

Andy

Andy,

Exellent photos and thanks for sharing. What were your various mediums you used?

I'm thinking the velocities from your Dakota were beyond what the 500gr .458's were generally designed for. Though you'd think Hornady would specifically have 2300 fps in mind with their .458 Lott ammo... I'm wondering what we'd see at 2100 =/- fps.

The North Fork bullets' performance was just spectacular.

I used 5 gallon plastic buckets to recover bullets in.



These correspond 90-95% to actual bullets recovered from buffalo. (the late George Hoffman's vast collection of 416's corroborate the validity of the 5 gallon buckets.)

Compare these 400 and 450 grain NF's recovered from bufalo to the ones from water in previous post. If you weigh and measure them practically the same!



Just shooting into a water tank over expands the bullets by 1/3 or more. the nylon buckets are very hard on a bullet and can rip the wings of an X bullet or TBBC. Just like a rib shot on buffalo.

Cheap way to test your hunting ammo. $5/apeice for a bucket. You will need 3-4 to test a big bore un;les you are shooting a TBBC Speer or Interbond! (Then youll only need two, about like a .308 winchester for penetration).

Andy

Hi All

Don G , the 416 is a Ruger Rigby 416, which is a heavy son of a beach, but as accurate as hell, my loads are fairly slow at about 2250 2300 feet per second, the 458 is a ZKK 602 in 450 Rigby, I have only used the IB in the 450 on smaller stuff,

I find it diffycult too experimnet on a clients buffalo ? with bullets that I have not tried myself on something bigger, so I can not comment on the 458 's but sure as hell the 416 's seemed too work excellently

Don't do it!!!

Use the Hornaday's for practice. There are too many excellent premium bullets on the market to settle for something that's "almost as good".

Northfork, Barnes, Trophy Bonded, Speer GS. Sure they cost about twice as much as the Hornaday but nothing else associated with your upcoming hunt will actually be responsible for ensuring an effective, sure, humane kill of your trophy animal as your choice of bullets. Do you really think $1.00 or $2.00 is too much to spend for a premium bullet? Don't waste your hard earned money on a first class hunt and then, use anything less than a premium bullet.

Bull1

Hi Folks

Just doing a search on bullet performance with the 458 Interbonds by Hornady.
I was interested to see what happened to the bullet in the Dakota @ 2400 where the bullet fragmented. Admittedly this is not a good feature however the velocity is a bit on the aggressive side IMHO. The faster one goes the more premium the bullet needs to be. I enclose a picture of a 300 gn woodleigh in my 375 H+H which was travelling @ 2300 from an impala, having seen that would you use it on a buffalo???

At present I am collecting the wet newspapers to construct my simulated buff bullet catcher.
The velocity I am looking at is @ 2150 fps out of a 458 lott which should avoid overexpansion problems which the fully stoked 375 also suffered from. If my 458 looks like the Andy's then yes I'll take woodleighs along for the hunt.
I'll post the pictures in the next few weeks and if favourable a dead buff in August.

My hunting partner put a Hornady interbond into her dead Cape Buffalo after requiring three 500 grain Barnes Banded Solids to do it in. Through shoulder and shoulder, 458 Lott at 15 feet, muzzle velocity 2200 fps, wound up under hide far side, retained 90 of weight... mushroomed well and expanded back to shank. I felt it mushroomed a little too far back but stayed together under tremendous stress. It is a good bullet.

In working up my Lott, I put plenty of Woodleighs, Hornady's and Barnes through the puppy. Dug plenty out of the berm. Woodleighs turned inside out so badly versus the Hornady's. Barnes TSX stayed together, rarely loosing a petal in the berm. I put a 450 grain Barnes TSX into my dead buff, frontal shot at 15 feet, muzzle velocity of 2400 fps and only one petal lost after plowing through shoulder and 4 more feet of buff. I used a 450 Barnes Banded Solid on mine... dropped it within 75 feet of impact point. Used another Barnes Solid to spine shoot the downed Cape. The Barnes design saved my bacon... Banded Solids are amazing.

So... they all work on game.... some are tougher than others and the Hornady bested the Woodleighs in my test... but they ALL are great rounds.

By the way, my partner's Ruger would not chamber a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. If you buy a Ruger, TBBC's are not for you.

Shoot what you have confidence in... it is your life on the line and the PH and trackers also. A Hornady in the boiler room beats many Barnes, Swifts, Woodleighs in the wrong places.

Why do hunters want to count pennies on the CHEAPEST integral part of a hunting trip?!?!

If you do the math that you want to burn several boxes of ultra premium bullets before your trip and the safari costs $12,000 (a number I pulled out of thin air) then the bullets are only between 1 and 2% of the total cost!!!

The daily fees, trophy fees and airline tickets add up to around 80-90% of the total cost, but they seem to be hashed over about the same amount as bullets.

If a person is going to cut corners on bullets it follows logic to bargain with the outfitter that you'll bring your own food & transportation, only shoot at animals some else has already killed and either hide in a duffle bag or catch a ride on a freight ship to get there.

Oops, was that a rant? Sorry.

(I just guided a few hunters who waited many months to get very expensive [and I'm sure accurate] rifles built, mounted the most expensive scopes, brought the best custom loaded ammo but didn't bother to practice or even check the sighting of the rifles... so I guess I'm just venting about priorities and prospective in general.)

Kyler

I'm with Kyler on this one. I had a hunting companion that did just that-cut corners on his ammo. Guess what? After a number of failures, he was using my ammo before the hunt was too far underway. Lucky for him that I had brought plenty and was willing to share. I couldn't bear to see his first Safari ruined because of poor ammo and his cheapskate ways. Believe me, he now purchases the very best. Sorry for the rant as well.

Recovered 500 grain Woodleighs from Buffalo.

Cutting corners on cost is a poor choice. Cheap optics, poorly sorted out rifle... not good. Ammo seems the real problem... after thousands of dollars, some one gets upset at $80 (US) for a box of premium ammo... the only thing "cheap" about that is the proven "cheap insurance" premium ammo affords the user. Ammo is the final "authority" in the hunt. I put several hundred dollars into ammo for practice... and it was worth every penny. It also instills confidence when you know the bullet is going to work. I am now in the Barnes and Swift A-frame camp after seeing how shredded the others can become.

I have used and recovered Woodleigh Soft and Solid bullets from the following double rifles on African game.

286gr in the 9,3x74R

400gr from the 450/400

480gr from the 450 No2

On plains game, buff, or elephant, all the Woodleigh's have performed excellently.

I will also add that the 500gr Swift A Frame has also done a perfect job on eland and cape buff from the 450 No2.

At Nitro express velocities Woodleigh's cannot be beat.