Today, before leaving in a few weeks for a safari, I took a rifle to U S Customs at the Baltimore/ washington Airport to regester it as I have done many times before. A female customs agent asked me what airport was I departing from. I told her that I was leaving from Dulles and she told me that i would have to regester it there.A long and heated debate started, then she wanted my drivers license. I am a Florida resident and have a Florida license. She then told me that I would have to regester the rifle in Florida. I told her that I was a US citizen and could regester it anywhere in the US.Another long debate started,and finally got it regestered. This is what is protecting our country......

I hate to say that the situation is much worse than you think....have you talked to a TSA agent recently? YIKES!

Did she speak much english!

My guess is no!

Thats pretty funny. Last year when I registered mine at BWI... I left them in the truck and took in all the little stuff like cameras, bino's, bow, etc. I had all the forms filled out, they checked all the stuff I took in and then when it came time to checking the rifle's I told the guy that I needed to go out to the truck and get them and he said it was fine, don't worry about it!!! I double and tripple checked the serrial numbers. Everything worked out fine. But damn!!!

No offense to government employees, but what do you expect???

I know an agent or two that will mail you the forms after you send him the info. There is no need for the service to be so inconsistent. After all we are not registering our guns. The 4457 only shows that we didn't buy the guns over seas so they are not subject to duty.

Mark

Some may try to explain this type behavior but I personally have little patience abiding stupidity.One would think that since customs were the only thing these folks have to know, they could get fairly adept at it.As the above illustrates, that is clearly not the case.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, Mark, but the word at the top of the 4457 form is as follows:
CERTIFICATE OF REGISTRATION FOR PERSONAL EFFECTS TAKEN ABROAD.
This is a registration form.

The scariest words I have ever heard:
"I'm from the government. I'm here to help you."

Some years ago (pre 9/11) I took my revolvers to register them prior to an African trip. The very belligerent Customs official told me that these weren't hunting weapons and that I couldn't register them. I asked if he didn't think that perhaps we should let the officials in the country I was travelling to (Zambia) make that decision and that I just wanted to register my property. He got very angry and said to cool my heels while he made some phone calls. After he went in the back I started thinking that since he didn't have my name, perhaps the better part of valor lay in getting it done elsewhere and I left. As another aside on dealing with U.S. Customs I once asked an agent who seemed friendly why sportsmen returning with guns were made to go thru the "something to declare" line while those with any other possesions got to decide for themselves in which line they belonged. He responded that ATF asked Customs to do it as an accomodation to them, but that he(the Customs Agent) thought confidentially that it was simply harrassment. Anti sentiment is everywhere.

Mark, I was just going to say that you do NOT register your guns with the 4457. Idiots, but of course we are talking about government employees so...............

I went to Albany. The Customs Service office is in a courthouse, which led to all sorts of problems with people trying to get in with rifles and other guns through the security... they started sending people to the airport. At the airport, there is an old brick building with most of the office space empty. They have space set up for processing lines, but most of the time, the level of international flights is low enough they just have one guy there. He kept the doors locked -- you're supposed to knock. I found that out after trying a bunch of doors trying to get in. Got in, went back for the guns, unpacked them, he read the serial #'s -- wrote everything down -- camara, computers. Friendly, accomodating -- worth the drive. Would have felt much more uncomfortable trying to do that at JFK... maybe wouldn't have made it home if I'd tried to go there. The agent said I was the third person to get one of these -- wondered if season was opening up. I said yup - Africa.

Dan

Deja Vu!!! In 02 I was to fly out of Atlanta to Zim. The nearest Customs agent to me is over 4 hours away so I called them on the phone weeks before my departure. I was told I could register my guns/optics etc when I got to Atl. My flight was delayed 6 hours and by the time I got to Atl, Customs would have been closed. I called Customs from the Detroit airport while they were still open and was told to show up an extra two hours early for my flight and have it taken care of then.

When I finally made it to Atl, I immediately went to the airline counter and explained the situation. They called someone at a customs office and confirmed that I could come by in the morning and take care of everything. They told me to check my property and bring the form to their office. in the morning.

Next morning, I show up, the person there isn't the one from the night before. She refuses to sign the form without inspecting the items. I explain the whole situation, give her the name of the customs agent from the night before, the names of the airline staff, etc and she still refuses. I tell her my flight is leaving and I have to get this form signed/stamped before I go. She pushes the form back at me and tells me to come back on Monday!!!

I lose it, and demand to speak with her supervisor. He's off for the weekend of course. So I tell her to dial him at home or the pentagon, or whoever she thought was appropriate as I wasn't leaving until the form was signed. Further, I wrote her name down in my notebook and asked her for the correct time.

Immediately she went off to the back room, faked making a phone call and came back and stamped the damn form. It was absolutely maddening.

When I got back to the airline counter, they all knew what had happened the night before as Delta/SAA had been super through the whole process and documented everything. They were amazed at how badly I was treated.

Hugh

As someone who lives in Baltimore I can say that customs is a bit off center when it comes to all things African. Two years ago I went to the customs house in Downtown Baltimore to get my paperwork. Walking a city street with a rifle case got me a few looks. The securtity guard at the building totally freaked out when I walked in the door and almost had a seizure. I just stood there and smiled till they tracked down a customs agent to fill out the paperwork.

I then had my hides and horns dipped and shipped to BWI airport. I was called by customs at the airport saying they could not clear my crate because the solution used to dip the hides was not up to code and/or the hides were wet. I contacted the taxidermy company who were suprised to say the least. Had them fax me their process and sent to customs. Agent stil would not clear them. I then asked her to fax me the customs regs. I went down and spent 25 minutes going over customs regs and what was done in SA. Hides could not be wet as they had been shot and dipped 6 months prior. After a half hour of conversation she agreed with me, said she was kind of new, and cleared my hides.

Sometimes commons sense ain't so common....

Let's see, I drive out to our little regional airport (actually to an office adjacent to the airport). Take my guns in to the office, fill out the form, chat with Beverly (our only Customs Officer) about the weather, her grandkids, etc. She signs and stamps the Form 4457 and back to the house I go.

Regards,

Terry

I took 2 shotguns into the airport customs office which is located near the terminal. Had an airport policeman stop me and told me I couldn't be on airport property with a firearm (they were cased). After explaining why I needed to go to customs before my trip to Argentina he escorted me there, only to find the customs agent was a senior citizen whom was more interested in taking a nap in his 1 man office than anything else. He signed a blank form and told me to fill it in with whatever I wished to register. Then finished his sandwich and nap!.... Just imagine what he checks for when an international flight lands?

DO NOT GET ME STARTED!!!!!!!

I will only say that I have met a few damn fine agents and a few damn iditotic agents and sadly there seems to be no inbetween.

The first time I did my 4457's I went to the Customs office in Bensenville (Chicago suburb immediately adjacent to O'Hare). Had the misfortune of getting a female of color with an attitude. I asked to get one rifle on each form. She had a cow and said, " We don't do it that way here." I just walked out didn't feel like fighting. Next I went to the office south of Milwaukee. Explained what I wanted, the guy said no problem, fill out the forms and ring the bell when you're done.After he signed and stamped the forms he gave me a bunch of blank forms to fill out in advance in the future to save time. He told me good luck in Africa and have a nice day. Ah, petty bureaucrats, a lesson in anger management.

"Good judgement comes from experience. Most experience comes from making bad judgements."

Pay attention to each of the above and you will see there are no hard and fast rules, and each experience could go either way. I usually try to get a phone number of the office I am interested in, and get a verbal explanation of their expectations. Have yet to have a problem with any of them.

quote:

Originally posted by patrkyhntr:
I hate to be the one to tell you this, Mark, but the word at the top of the 4457 form is as follows:
CERTIFICATE OF REGISTRATION FOR PERSONAL EFFECTS TAKEN ABROAD.
This is a registration form.

Customs doesn't keep any copies - at least they don't here in Fairbanks, AK. And no one kept a copy when I had to pull one out and show it to them. I don' see how your "registering" anything if you're the only one with a copy. In fact I think a dealer's invoice will suffice in place of the 4457.

We did our 4457s in Anchorage between flights. Called ahead and told them we were coming. Had to get a guy from one of the airlines to take us to the locked door. We of course couldn't go in, might be terrorist, you know. Had to wake up the Customs guy. He was a jerk for a while, then warmed up a bit. Finally signed the forms and wished us a good trip.

quote:

I hate to be the one to tell you this, Mark, but the word at the top of the 4457 form is as follows:
CERTIFICATE OF REGISTRATION FOR PERSONAL EFFECTS TAKEN ABROAD.
This is a registration form.

The form has the word "registration" at the top but on the back of the form is also reads: "Customs and Border Protection does not maintain copies of the completed forms".

Hard to know who has the guns if you don't keep a record.

Snyder

Like T. Carr I go to a regional airport (Pontiac) and deal with the on-site Customs Officer.

But all that said this thread is all the more reason why I simply use the firearms available from the PH. I'm a "gun guy" of the first order but all this b.s. of transporting firearms to/from Africa has lost it's entertainment value with me. From now on I don't travel with firearms...I use the ones they have over there.

P.S. There is no "registration" involved with this form. All they do is run it NCIC; checking whether or not the firearm is stolen. Sometimes people give too much credit/ability to the gubmint. You must remember that in some (most?) cases the gubmint has a tough time organizing a one man rock fight and that is particularly true in some guy simply going hunting in Africa.

I have never had a problem all of them were very helpful and things went smooth(8 times). I was even able to clear my animals in less than 5 Min.

Urdubob

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I know an agent or two that will mail you the forms after you send him the info. There is no need for the service to be so inconsistent. After all we are not registering our guns. The 4457 only shows that we didn't buy the guns over seas so they are not subject to duty.

Mark

Well.......it used to be the case.....not any more.....

The law is changed and now in order for you to be charged duty on bringing your gun back into the states the customs people have to prove you bought it over seas.....and you don't have to register cameras and other things as no one over there cares about them.

The only reason you need the 4457 form for now is to prove you own the gun when in Africa as they ask that you prove it's yours and that form is accepted as proof.

If it wasn't for that you have no need to get the form at all.

Has anyone been asked to see their 4457 upon returning to the states?

When I last ran the gauntlet, it was in Atlanta. I knew I needed a 4457 and that I had to get it stamped at a Customs office. I figured, Atlanta Airport handles incoming customs inspections - the office must be there. WRONG!! The ticket agent at the check in counter informed me that there wasn't an office at the airport - you have to go to their office off airport. Good thing I had several hours before departure because I had to get a taxi and go to the office. Got there about 7:45 am. The office opened at 8:00, but the inspectors didn't get to work til about 8:45 and nobody else could stamp the form. Not only that, but they didn't allow firearms INSIDE the building. So I sat outside on my gun case as employees passed by on their way to work - feeling somewhat like a homeless man panhandling. One pleasant lady (a secretary type) came out and checked on me and got me the form, but I still couldn't get it stamped til an Inspector got there. Finally a couple of donut eaters arrived and made an exception on the no guns in the building thing (they didn't want to be working outside!) and had me bring my stuff in. Didn't take long - wasn't any anti-sentiment - just a damned inconvenient process...

I had no problems getting the 4457s at Washington Dullas back about 2 months ago. Customs agent looked at the serial number of the first rifle and then said "it good" on the second rifle. He glanced at the camera and bino serial number. I was in and out in 15 minutes to include filling out the 4457s.

Now that I live in Phoenix, I went to the customs office at the Scottsdale Airport. I went on a Saturday, there was one woman on duty, she was very professional and pleasant to deal with.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

Has anyone been asked to see their 4457 upon returning to the states?

Yes, US Customs in Atlanta last October. I noticed they were also asking everyone else returning with a firearm, not just me.

You are correct that 4457 copies are not kept but many(not all)times I have had the Customs agent enter my firearm info into the computer when clearing U.S.Customs. I even had one make the comment that I must have a lot of guns since I had come in with different guns two months prior.

Dallas is no problem.

What surprises me is that no one has ever asked me for the 4457 form when I come back from Africa (Atlanta) or Canada (Dallas). It never came out of my pocket.

The Customs folks in Charleston, WV have been nothing but helpful, nice, and cooperative ... wonderful service.

They are a joy to work with.

The Customs official has checked the serial numbers on the guns, against the numbers on the 4457 froms on both my return trips through Atlanta. In 2004 and in 2006. Cameras, bino's and scope numbers were not checked. My other bags were never looked in. Both times the Customs Officers were very nice.

In Atlanta last summer they not only wanted to see them, they gave someone grief for having a photocopy and not the original.

On two separate trips to the U.S. Customs Office at the Sacramento Airport I did business with Officer Knapp. He was very professional on both occations. Very refreshing.

On a return through Minniapolis St. Paul, One of my 4457's was missing but I did have a receipt folded with my passport. The officer accepted that and made out a new 4457 for me.

I think attitude and body language can go a long way is "smoothing the waters".

What surprised me most was that the customs officer in Los Angeles airport didn't want to see the rifle and was very courteous. I wasn't expecting that in the land of fruits and nuts (LOL).
As is the case with every profession I have had interaction with, there are a whole bunch of really nice people who work there, but there is always one or two that are yerkovskis. A smile and a bit of good humor work wonders in most cases.

BUREAUCRACY - New proposed spelling...BUREAUCRAZY I've worked in them my whole "working" life.

To those of you that never have, you just can't understand. I heard a POLICE CAPTAIN testify on the stand once as follows:

He had answered a question of one of the lawyers, said lawyer then played a tape of the Captain on the phone

involved with the matter at hand and CAPTAIN said something on that tape quite different from what he had just testified to,

the lawyer asks the CAPTAIN again the same question, having already proven that what he had testified to was NOT accurate,

(Lie?, Error in memory? What ever, NOT accurate) The CAPTAIN then testifies,

"Those are my words, but that's not what I said."

No I am not kidding, it was like YOGI BERRA was on the stand saying,

"95% of the game is half mental."

This captain left the job as a CHIEF, he had climbed 3 ranks beyond CAPTAIN.

This is what you get in Government BUREAUCRAZIES over and over again.

Big commercial firms have the same problems with, BUREAUCRAZY, but they still promote enough smart people to make sure the profits keep on coming.

Goverrnment BUREAUCRAZIES don't have that mission, to be profit makers, nor to even "break even"

so the minds at the top are often truly unworthy of such power and public trust.

Colorado Springs, CO, customs agents have been very nice everytime I've been there. The head guy always says, "Wish I could go with you." And once said, "Could I fit in a suitcase?"

The only Problem I had was in Canada. Had a rifle permit. The lady was rude...ask what I was KIlling!
I said I was Hunting bear ..she hoped I did not get one. She anounced she had to search my bags for Hand guns and Knives..I almost missed my connecting flight. This was all Pre-911.


We all know how dangerous middle aged chiropractors are! We take the time to get a rifle permit ...draw attention to ourselves then try to smuggle in KNIVES.

Urdubob

Hmmm, that's strange. I've had better care at airports on the Canadian side than I have on the U.S. side. Guess, like here, it takes all kinds. Montreal was great.

Has anyone been asked to see their 4457 upon returning to the states?[/QUOTE]

Atlanta 2001, 2004 and Dulles Washington last Nov. No hassles, but they checked the numbers against the rifles.