THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM HUNTING FORUMS

Merry Christmas to our Accurate Reloading Members

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  African Big Game Hunting    Do you believe bench shooting can hurt you on a safari?

Moderators: Saeed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Do you believe bench shooting can hurt you on a safari?
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
Picture of JohnCrighton
posted
I've done a lot of bench shooting - or at least that is what I call it. Shooting at a bench at a range, with a sandbag rest, taking my time, using a spotting scope, etc.

In the past I would blast away with various semi-autos and iron sights, or red dot/holosights and it was fun, and I often would do pretty good at hitting milk jugs, bowling pins, etc.

But at some point I got obsessed with MOA, "groups", etc.

I was at the range today, after a long hiatus (over a year) and took my Tikka T3 Lite in .223 with Zeiss 3-9x40 scope. I was wanting to sight in the scope as it had not been on this rifle, and was shooting from sandbags, at 50 yards, using factory American Eagle (Federal, I think) 55 gr. FMJ ammo.

Here are two targets of what I did once I got it dialed in:





But when I shot off-hand, it was tough to take decent shots as it seemed like the reticle of the scope, especially on 9x, was ALL over the place. I got most of my rounds in about a 6" circle at 50 yards, but it was a little distressing to go from a .45" at 50 yards with factory ammo to 6" off-hand.

Guess I need to practice a lot more off-hand. I think also the high magnification is a hindrance, too. At 3x things seemed much better.

Thoughts and opinions welcome.


_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. - Theodore Roosevelt
 
Posts: 555 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: 09 November 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Buglemintoday
posted Hide Post
Usually when I know I wont have a rest while hunting, I will keep the gun on the lowest power. I think it doesn't show you all the wobbling you are doing and helps with confidence.

Practicing at the range standing up helps, just start at a closer target and slowly work your way out. Doing this has helped with taking a whitetail buck at 187yd 2 years ago Big Grin


Small game hunting like Rabbit hunting with .22's helps as well with working on your offhand shooting, I recommend this as well


"Let me start off with two words: Made in America"
 
Posts: 3326 | Location: Permian Basin | Registered: 16 December 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of 308Sako
posted Hide Post
JC, Your enthusiasm is contagious and I do agree that the bench could in some ways hinder your performance in the field. However, proper pre Safari practice sessions OFFHAND with or without sticks is mandatory with your big rifle. Once it is zero'd and the load developed to your satisfaction: Leave the bench behind. Shoot a .22 LR as much as possible and shoot the big gun also as much as you can tolerate. The positive side is that the actual in the field shots are rarely challenging! The PH doesn't want you to have a bad time, so he will make you work in closer, a win win situation.

I must recomend reading the classic African hunting tales, as the newer ones, of the one hunt wonders simply do not have the feel nor the depth of experience. You will also gain a feel for the many varying geographical and climatic conditions or seasonal issues which Africa offers.

Do it you will never regret it!






Member NRA, SCI- Life #358 28+ years now!
DRSS, double owner-shooter since 1983, O/U .30-06 Browning Continental set.
 
Posts: 3611 | Location: LV NV | Registered: 22 October 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
The bench is great for sighting and load development, but there are no benches or sand bags while hunting. Get some shooting sticks, I use stoney points, and practice out to 200 yards. Minute of paper plate is what you are going to need.

What was posted earlier about shooting on a lower power level with a variable power scope is entirely correct. And yes your PH will try to get as close as possible. But if a great trophy is out there a ways and there is no cover that allows you to get closer you will be able to take the longer shot with confidence.

Those small groups are great for letting you know what your rifle is capable of, you just have to hone your skills at using the rifle in hunting conditions. Practice, like training will build confidence in your abilities and teach you your limitations.
 
Posts: 42535 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
John:
The practice that has helped me most is lots of offhand shooting and from sticks shooting of a full sized 22 caliber with a good quality scope. I have an Anshutz sporter I take with me to the range and practice with it while my centerfires cool. I'll usualy go through 1500 rounds of 22 per season shooting at metallic silhouette swingers. Be sure to get a 22 that has a trigger that can be adjusted to match your centerfires. I believe good triggert control is vital to accurate shooting and the only way to get that is lots of practice.
 
Posts: 3073 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: 11 November 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Michael Robinson
posted Hide Post
Yes.

But just in case this is a trick question:

No.


Mike

Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
 
Posts: 13832 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
I think one of the most important thing you can do to practice for your hunt would be trigger control.

Whether you are shooting off the bench, or off hand, you have to practice so that the trigger let off is precisely at the moment you want to be.

This means you really have to learn two seperate trigger controls.

One is slow and delibrate, and the other is fast and jerky as well.

This might not make much sense, but I can assure you that is how it feels to me while in hunting.

And make sure the rifle you practice with has the same trigger pull as your hunting rifle - this is extremely important, otherwise you are not going to hit much shooting off hand.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69688 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of shakari
posted Hide Post
Adding to Saeed's good advice, a lot of what he's talking about simply boils down to being ultra familiar with your hunting rifle..... I can often tell what kind of a hunter I'll be hunting with by watching him for the first few minutes he has his rifle in his hands when he first brings it out in camp. Some handle their rifle as though they're afraid it'll bite them and the real rifleman will handle it like it's an old friend. You need to be as familiar with your rifle, as a woman is with her handbag. Get in the habit of 'playing' with your rifle whenever you have spare time. - You don't have to be shooting it all the time. - Try sitting in front of the TV and dry firing at the bad guys or whatever else is on the screen for example...... this'll get you used not only to trigger pull but also with balance and fit etc. And hey, it's fun as well.

My advice for the scope would be to fit a good quality one that's suitable for the kind of hunting you'll be doing - but choose one without too many bells and whistles. Many scopes now come with all kinds features that look great in the gunshop but some hunters spend soooo much time buggering about with their scope at the last minute, they can lose the shot.






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
it could, if you got a hernia from toting that big heavy bench around; or hurt your back.
homer

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...
 
Posts: 23062 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
good question the answer being yes and no. I was a competitive shooter both bench and pistol for several years. There is a big difference between hunting and target work, and then again there isn't. The things you learn from target work such as trigger control, breath control etc. are carried over to any type of shooting. I think i've seen more animals missed from sight picture through a scope than anything else. People will look at the animal, center it in their vision in the scope and pull the trigger without concentrating on there the crosswires are. Same things you learn in target shooting, help much to prevent this. The problem I had in converting into shooting game is the concentration aspect of where I want the bullet to strike. It took concentrated effort to hold the crosswires on the area of the animal, instead of trying to hit the third hair on the left of the brown spot just on the end. I'd concentrate so much on the sight picture etc. that the animal would be off into the next county before I would squeeze the perfect shot off. Like steve says bells and whistles work fine on a target range, but not so good in the field. The simple suggestion is to continue shooting from the bench etc., but mix in quite a bit of quick aquisition work, learn how to get the gun to your shoulder in odd positions and get a shot off quickly. This practice is quite opposite of the precision shooting bench requires. While you try to make each thing the same on a bench, in the field, everything every single time is going to be different. To steady yourself offhand, try using sticks or leaning against a tree etc. for awhile. Offhand is the worst position for most (kneeling is a close second) and it is going to take alot of practice. However in actual field shooting, most shots are taken using some sort of a rest. Pure offhand shots are rare. If'n you've been a blaster in the past It'll all come back quick. Shoot lots and often
 
Posts: 13466 | Location: faribault mn | Registered: 16 November 2004Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
The quality of the advice you've received above is absolutely first class. You and your rifle / load are obviously a mean combination over the bench. Now it's time to get away from the bench, and do a whole lot of shooting over sticks / sitting / kneeling, and even offhand.

I enjoy putting up targets (bricks, Coke cans, whatever comes to hand - I like 12ga cases at 25m). I then proceed to blast away at them (with my hunting rifle / loads) over sticks (50, 75 and 100m), and offhand over 25 and 50m, later pushing that to 75 and 100.

There comes a time (shortly before insolvency) when the whole system comes together very nicely, and an unbelievable level of confidence begins to emerge. Don't ever disregard the value in the field of that confidence.

Put the icing and the cherry on the cake by reading (studying) Kevin Robertson's 'The Perfect Shot', and if you miss or wound anything, I'll pay half the trophy fee. You see that ridiculous confidence coming through? Big Grin

Your enthusiasm, dedication and general attitude is the stuff PH's dream of. Keep it up and you'll 'cream it' when the day comes.
 
Posts: 408 | Location: Johannesburg, RSA | Registered: 28 February 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post


Above was benchrest, with Ol' Purple, a Ruger RSM .416 Rigby factory rifle (take note Luddites).
GSC 380-grain FN with 105 grains of H4831, F215 primer, and Norma brass, averaging 2509 fps.

Scope was Leupold 1.5-5X set on 5X, distance to target was 115 yards. Trigger was squeezed slowly and carefully. 0.140 MOA for 3-shots, just working up the load and zeroing the scope before the cape buffalo hunt.

A few weeks later in Botswana the scope was set at 1.5X, the buffalo was at 50 yards, the trigger was yanked as soon as the cross hairs were on his heart. One shot killed the buffalo.

Saeed has said it.
Two different shooting techniques. It should come as naturally as breathing.

Like others above, I hope you are not planning to pack a benchrest along for your buffalo hunt.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Wink
posted Hide Post
At the risk of being a lone voice, I think two things have helped me (and I still think I could use more practice): 1) Shooting sporting clays and 2) shooting my rifle at the same target from different distances when at the range.

Sporting Clays is a great way to practice getting the firearm to the shoulder quickly and consistantly (a proper shoulder/cheek weld) and all shots are from a standing position. I think many cases of someone getting whacked by their scope come from not practicing this and not getting the rifle firmly into the cheek and shoulder before aiming and firing. Sporting Clays is unforgiving in this respect and by its nature you repeat it hundreds of times. It also helps you in understanding the technique of leading and swinging through the target on moving targets (like wounded animals running away).

At the rifle range I set my target at 150 meters. I can load the magazine, shoot two shoots standing and then jog fifty meters while topping up the magazine and then shoot two more shots, jog another fifty meters and then shoot two more shots. I shoot from whatever position I want, but none are from the bench. It's a great way to practice different shooting positions, forces you to replenish the magazine when in movement and allows you to see how the scope setting affects your shooting. Do this a few times and you'll start using lower powers on your scope because you'll see that get target acquisition faster.


_________________________________

AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim.
 
Posts: 7046 | Location: Rambouillet, France | Registered: 25 June 2004Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Shooting off the bench is good and I do a lot of bench rest shooting, testing loads, getting my trigger pull down pat, testing rifles for function and accuracy,adjusting to recoil and a lot of other functions that all play a part in my shooting ability.

If you can shoot well off the bench then you will shoot well enough in Africa, and bench shooters shoot a lot and that really counts..

That said, never do a bench session without finishing it up with 10 or 15 off hand shots..Off hand shooting is almost a thing of the past, overlooked and disregarded, but it is the single most important practice you can do. If you can shoot off hand then you can shoot from any position and you can shoot quick and accurately.

I watch the hunting shows on TV from time to time and watch those silly nerds pass up shot after shot waiting for the animal to turn broadside, In Africa they would lose more animals than they would shoot, its such a staged hunt on the best hunting ranches in the world where good opertunities are a dime a dozen..Not so everywhere the average hunters get to hunt, they may get only one fleeting chance, and they better be prepared to make the shot under adverse circumstances, then and only then can they call themselves "hunter".

You be prepared to take going away shots, running shots, be able to take advantage of any window of opertunity and you will be much more successful..some of my best trophies were made with difficult shots and my years of off hand practice made them good.

While your at it learn to shoot with both open iron sights, receiver sights and scopes..That also will pay dividends. So many folks today cannot shoot irons, and that is a shame.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 42320 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Here's another vote for trigger control and manipulation skills. After load development and zeroing, use the bench to really, really, learn the trigger. Then move to various field-related positions and work to develop an even more "intimate" relationship with your trigger.


114-R10David
 
Posts: 1753 | Location: Prescott, Az | Registered: 30 January 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Blacktailer
posted Hide Post
What helped me the most in my hunting shooting was shooting High Power rifle. When you really learn position shooting- standing, sitting, prone- (kneeling helps also), ALL of your shooting will improve. The fact that somebody is next to you firing and throwing brass all over you does wonders for your ability to concentrate also Eeker


Have gun- Will travel
The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark
 
Posts: 3831 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
You have gotten very good advise. I would add that shots at dangerous game need to be deliberately fast while those at longer ranges need to be deliberately slow. In every case, you need to be ready to light up the target when your ph says, "now."

Get a routine: get a good shooting position; scope covers open; acquire the target (make sure you and the ph are on the same animal); asked the range to the target and wind; aim based on that info;(keep communicating with the ph about the animal and where it is and what it is doing by describing its movements back to the ph) ask to go hot (safety off); oxygenate your blood and get ready for slow, deep breaths; communicate - "I''m ready when you say fire") focus yourself and listen for the fire command. Practice with a friend id-ing a particular target by location and color at 100 yds and shooting it. You'll begin to see how difficult this is and how important target identification is.

Shooting the same size paper targets from 25yds to 300yds is also good and teaches you a great deal about the trajectory of the loads you use and windage. Start out shooting dead on from a bench, and see how far your shoots drop at each distance. Once you learn a load, then practice hitting dead on using hold off for distance and windage.

Use a variable scope that is 1.5-5 or a fixed 4 (maybe a 6x on a plains game hunt). Keep you rifle on lowest power all the time. If the animal is far enough away to require more magnification, you'll have time to make the adjustment. When you take the round out of the chamber after a shot/kill; check the scope setting.

Try to get by on a plains game hunt with one load. On a dangerous game hunt, you may need a solid and a soft point. Use two loads that will shoot to roughly the same point under 100 yds. Match solid to soft and zero the soft at 200yds or 225yds. This will put it about 2"-2.5" high at 100yds. Kudude
 
Posts: 1473 | Location: Tallahassee, Florida | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of JohnCrighton
posted Hide Post
Thank you all for the excellent advise. My ammo budget will have to go up, and I'm going to have to get into reloading very soon!

I just wish my range wasn't 1 hour away - I got so spoiled when I lived in Oak Ridge, TN and had an awesome range (which included a 1000 yard high power range) and it was only 8 minutes from my house and almost always deserted when I went there during the week - sigh.

Would you suggest both the full size and mini guide (The African Perfect Shot)?

I am by nature an extremely enthusiastic person - hell, I can't stop thinking about this trip and it is 18 months away! I've not been sleeping right, either - I go to bed thinking about it and wake up thinking about it. My wife thinks I'm crazy - LOL.


quote:
Originally posted by Rikkie:
The quality of the advice you've received above is absolutely first class. You and your rifle / load are obviously a mean combination over the bench. Now it's time to get away from the bench, and do a whole lot of shooting over sticks / sitting / kneeling, and even offhand.

I enjoy putting up targets (bricks, Coke cans, whatever comes to hand - I like 12ga cases at 25m). I then proceed to blast away at them (with my hunting rifle / loads) over sticks (50, 75 and 100m), and offhand over 25 and 50m, later pushing that to 75 and 100.

There comes a time (shortly before insolvency) when the whole system comes together very nicely, and an unbelievable level of confidence begins to emerge. Don't ever disregard the value in the field of that confidence.

Put the icing and the cherry on the cake by reading (studying) Kevin Robertson's 'The Perfect Shot', and if you miss or wound anything, I'll pay half the trophy fee. You see that ridiculous confidence coming through? Big Grin

Your enthusiasm, dedication and general attitude is the stuff PH's dream of. Keep it up and you'll 'cream it' when the day comes.


_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. - Theodore Roosevelt
 
Posts: 555 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: 09 November 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
John,

The full size edition of 'The Perfect Shot' just has a lot more info on the animals. If you're only going to get one, go for the full size one. You can make colour copies of the animals on your 'wish list', and have those encapsulated, for very handy quick reference 'cards'.
 
Posts: 408 | Location: Johannesburg, RSA | Registered: 28 February 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Andrew McLaren
posted Hide Post
John,

By the time I had read most of the replies here I thought had about what additional good advice I can give. The I saw what kudude had to say. He is dead right! Do try to PRACTICE communication back and forth with a buddy acting as a PH while shooting. Even if you start doing it from a bench or with easy 25 yards targers! All PH's know how extremely frustrating it is when you have to pick a particular trophy from a herd, like oryx, for a client. You ask:" See the one scratching it's head with the hind foot?" Reply: Heavy breathing. Wait for reply. [By now the one to the left of the real 41" bull has stopped scratching it's head, and moved so it is in front of the trophy.], "No, I don't see one scratching it's head. " So you confirm to the client that there is indeed no more head scratching and look how else you can describe which one is the trophy. Then follows
Scenario 1: BANG, the pregnant cow that was now scratching her head dies on the spot. Later; "But you told me the one scratching it's head!"
Scenario 2: You clearly see the trophy 3rd from right and tell the client in a calm manner:? "The one standing clear at third from right is a very good bull. Shoot it." Wait with binos focused on bull to see the hit. Wait some more. You glance and see the client pointing his rifle way out to the left. "What are you looking at? The trophy is 3rd from RIGHT, it is a bit quartering away, allow for that on aiming. Shoot as soon as youre ready!" Wait with binos focused on bull. Wait a bit more. Say very softly to yourself: "Don't ever rush a client. He'll blame you for chasing him on." Pregnant cow walks from left directly behind trophy. You say: "Wait a bi." Then you say, "OK he's clear now. Take him!" Wait. The client whispers. "Is it the one fourth from right?" Reply, "Yes. Take him." From the corner of your eye you see the client lowering his rifle to set the magnification lower, and raising rifle again. But by now the restless animals have moved again, and the trophy is not standing clear. .......

I can go on and on describing how important two things are: 1. The client must PRACTICE to communicate with his PH while actually sighting through the scope, back and forth. Two way communication. In one scenario, after a long wait a client may reply "Yes I saw the one scratching her head, but I think that is a cow!" Whereas if he just immediately said, while she was still scratching "Yes" the PH could just say "The one immediately to her right/left. Take him!"

Sorry for the long story, but I just have to explain why I endorse kudude's advice to PRACTICE communicating about identifying the target and communicating to the PH that youre ready.

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren.


Andrew McLaren
Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974.

http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa!
Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com


After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that:

One can cure:

Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it.


One cannot cure:

Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules!


My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt!



 
Posts: 1799 | Location: Soutpan, Free State, South Africa | Registered: 19 January 2004Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I grew up shooting whitetails and coyotes, so learned to shoot offhand and to shoot running game. There are times I go 5 years in a row, every deer will be on the move, it's either that or nothing. Any shooting, even bench shooting is better than sitting inside watching TV and bullshitting about shooting. I like to shoot offhand, and usually can hit 3 for 4 on clay pigeons at 100 yards, as can my son. I have seen some at the local range who are amazed by this, but it isn't really that hard with a rifle with a good trigger.


A shot not taken is always a miss
 
Posts: 2788 | Location: gallatin, mo usa | Registered: 10 March 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
John good shooting.

Once you get your rifle sighted in start practicing off hand.

Put your scope on low power and start shooting at 25 yards.

Move farther back as you get better.

Saeed is correct, you need 2 different trigger pulls, one when you are steady shooting from some kind of support and another when shooting from positions not quite as steady.

The off hand trigger "pull" is a rapid press to the rear, with out moving any other muscles that cause the rifle to move from its point of aim.

After a little practice get out into the field and do some "plinking".

In the off season I like to walk around my deer lease shooting at rocks, cactus, turtles, skunks, etc. [Safely of course]

I did this with my doubles for several years before I went to Africa.

This "field work" is the best practice you can get IMHO.


DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
 
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of JohnCrighton
posted Hide Post
Great advice so far, guys.

Communication is very important, I would guess, between PH and client. Thought I must make sure to understand what they would mean i they said "Third from right" - do they mean the third one over going to the right? Or the third one over to the left of the farthest animal on the right? LOL - see, I'm already confused!


_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. - Theodore Roosevelt
 
Posts: 555 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: 09 November 2007Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  African Big Game Hunting    Do you believe bench shooting can hurt you on a safari?

Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia