Am going to Botswana in August for eland, kudu, gemsbok, zebra, wildebeest. Will be primarily using my 35 Whelen and will back up with a 30-06. Thinking of using North Forks in both, as they seem to shoot OK so far.

My question is what weight is best in the 35 cal. North Fork's website suggests the 270 grain for African game, but might the 250 gr work as well?

Booked at hunt at Clive Eaton's place through Wendell and I'm tuunderstand that shots won't be at that much of a distance.

I've seen references of the heavier bullet used in 358 STA, but wonder how it would do in a Whelen. Pros and cons of each bullet weight appreciated.

Thanks all.

As originally designed, the 270 was intended for the 358 Norma, 358 STA, and 358 G&H improved (about the same thing as the STA). IMO, it cannot be launched from the Whelen at a high enough velocity to obtain the full benefit of the bullet. Some were used from the Whelen as defensive round, intended for under 100 yds but, in general, it is not the best choice for that capacity of cartridge. The 250 will do everything that needs done.

Thanks for the information.

I've had good success with 250 gr nosler partitions

I considered Partitions due to their long-lived reputation, but am thinking the North Forks would penetrate better on angled shots, particularly on the eland.

But, then, I've not done this before.

BB

I think you'll find the Nosler Partitions to penetrate exceedingly well. My bet would be that they would out penetrate the North Forks and most any other premium bullet other than the mono metals. I think on the plains game you have described that the NP's will give you surprisingly quick kills with all the pentration you could ever need.

Mark

Bob,

I used the NF .358 250grain on a lot of the same game from my 35 Whelen in RSA in 2004. The PH was very impressed as to how hard the game seemed to getting hit with the combo and let me take a less than desirable frontal chest shot on a big blue wildebeest after seeing me shoot a couple of animals. The blue dropped like lightning. I took a zebra at 60 yards with a heart shot that broke one leg and fully penetrated. An impala quatering on at 40 yards that fully penetrated. A warthog in the ass that was under the skin of the neck. A big eland on a quatering away running shot at 40 yards that I cut from under the hide in front of the opposite shoulder. Attached is a photo of the ones I recovered. I was shooting them at just over 2500 fps with Reloader 15 and Fed. LR primers in Remington brass.

unfired, gembok from paunch,warthog,blue wildebeest from paunch after penetrating spine, eland from underskin after going through a bout 5 feet of eland and penetrating shoulder

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
BB

I think you'll find the Nosler Partitions to penetrate exceedingly well. My bet would be that they would out penetrate the North Forks and most any other premium bullet other than the mono metals. I think on the plains game you have described that the NP's will give you surprisingly quick kills with all the pentration you could ever need.

Mark

I am curious how many animals you have taken with the North Fork softs to form the basis for your conclusion that the Partition will out-penetrate them?

I used the NF 250 in my 35 Whelen last year in Namibia. No issues at all. Ranges varied from 50 to 150 meters. When I did my part, we had dead animals everywhere. I recovered only three bullets, and they look just like the ones on the NF web site. I did not have to shoot through bush so I can't comment on the bullets ability to perform under such circumstances. Overall, I was very pleased. Will be using them again in Namibia in June.

I've got to disagree with Mark on this one.

While I have no experience with NorthForks, I have a very little experience with Nosler Partitions. But it was rather poor, especially on the raking or severe angled shot.

I started my first safari with factory loaded Federal ammo loaded with Nosler Partitions, in my .338 WinMag. After succesful use on Black Wildebeest [broadside] a Blesbuck kept running after a poorly placed first shot, after two shots from the PH, my final shot at it running away [a severe angle], the bullet clearly exploded upon contact with the skin leaving an entry wound the size of a softball [16" Chicago style] the shotgunlike effect of the "parts" did knock it down though, where it was finished with the trackers knife.

I quickly switched to my back up handloaded Barnes X bullets and the remainder of the hunt went well [when I shot well]. I see no reason to try them again, certainly when any blood means you pay the trophy fee!

A premium bullet should be the choice. Barnes X is one, I dont think anyone would say that Nosler Partition is one.

Les

[PS I corrected the ammo brand above, as my wise-cracking hunting partner pointed out that I must be in the early stages of "old timers" disease]

Post Script:

My load was similar to Kevin's. I used Rem brass, Fed 210M primers, and the max load of 57grs of RL15 as found in the Barnes #3 manual.
Chrono'd my loads at an average of 2550 fps.

My rifle is an Improved chambering but I get the best accuracy with standard loadings. Hence, the load I selected.

I think the 35 Whelen with the NF's is a great combination for PG.

Thanks, all. My only "experience" is what I've read, and most opinions point to the North Fork (or TSX, A Frame, etc. ) as being better for the quartering shots than a Partition would be.

Intersting how one days Wonderbullet falls into the category of "also ran" isn't it?

Borealis Bob ----- I have shot the .358 North Fork bullets extensively over the years with my two .358 STA's. My son and I shot the 270 grainer for years at Elk until about five years ago. He shot a Bull through the shoulders at 125 yards with it, it continued on and penetrated a cows head another 25 yards beyond that was bedded under a cedar tree unsighted too him. We recovered the bullet with still over 90% of it's original weight, embedded in the far side of the cranium. We concluded that was to much penetration and have backed off to the 250 and 225 grainers since. For me the 270 grainer was perfect for plains game in the Selous, where toughness and accuracy is a must. If I were using the 35 Whelen I would for sure use the 225 or 250 grain bullets. In my opinion there is no better bullet produced on this side of the pond. NF Mike gave you first hand advice, he designed-tested-sold them for years. Good shooting.

IMHO, when you ask a question about 2 different weight bullets, of the same make, and THE designer/maker gives you advice on which one to use in a particular cartridge/situation, then you have your answer.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
IMHO, when you ask a question about 2 different weight bullets, of the same make, and THE designer/maker gives you advice on which one to use in a particular cartridge/situation, then you have your answer.

I wish there were ballistic coefficients for Norhtforks, even if they were just calculated. At least I would have some kind of idea of trajectory. If there were I would buy some.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum Hunter1:
I wish there were ballistic coefficients for Norhtforks, even if they were just calculated. At least I would have some kind of idea of trajectory. If there were I would buy some.

Doug,

What is your application that requires a BC ..??

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum Hunter1:
I wish there were ballistic coefficients for Norhtforks, even if they were just calculated. At least I would have some kind of idea of trajectory. If there were I would buy some.

I believe it can be calculated if you get the right chrono readings.

Magnum Hunter, to find the "real field" BC of any bullet is very easy.

Sight in your rifle at 100 yards. Shoot it at 300 and at 600 yards.

You then know how your gun shoots with your loads.

As hunting bullets go, the North Fork's have all the BC they need.

Noslers may be viewed as the father of all "modern" bullets. When they came out in 1948, they were far better than anything before.

Nosler partitions are not bonded and the front will often separate from the base. The base weight is about 2/3 the weight of the bullet and will often keep penetrating. Ultimately, this penetration may be limited by loss in sectional density of the base alone.

A beautifully mushrooming bullet WILL suffer in penetration but cause more damage to the tissue it does penetrate. There are no free lunches.

My personal preference is for monometal expanding bullets such as X or GS. They give an excellent compromise.

As regards plains game with a 35 Whelen, either Noslers or NF will do just fine. The issue of terminal bullet performance here is not as significant as it is with DG. If the Noslers are accurate in your rifle, use them with confidence.

I can shoot to 300yds but not 600. I would just like to know, if even vaguely, the trajectory to 450yds. I can chrono them but would like some idea of BC. While I am sure they have enough BC for practical use, I would like to know what the BC is.

True BC is an estimate anyway, it changes with atmospheric conditions and elevation.

Charles and Les,

What I said was "my BET would be that the NP's would out penetrate the North Forks......." I've shot exactly 3 animals with the North Forks that of course does not make me an expert and although the animals died I never got an exit. The North Forks ball up similiarly to a SAF and work very well but a large frontal area has to retard penetration.

I have a good bit more experience with Nosler Partitions and probably have killed more than half of the soft skinned game I've taken with them. They work very well and almost always exit even on big animals. Because the desigh has a litle dust on it does not make it obsolete nor does the fact that the bullet routinely looses 1/3 of its weigh effect how it kills. Actually the front portion exploding is what makes the NP work as well as it does.

Not being on Les's hunt I can't comment on what happened. If there was a "failure" I could easily chalk it up to an anomalie after seeing so many spectacular kills with the NP's.

Mark

quote:

the bullet clearly exploded upon contact with the skin leaving an entry wound the size of a softball [16" Chicago style] the shotgunlike effect of the "parts" did knock it down though, where it was finished with the trackers knife.

I have to doubt the bullet exploded. A ballistic tip? yeah. Partition? not a chance. I've seen someone take the same mostly quatering shot described with a Barnes TSX and have the bullet skip off an animal though, leaving a divot on the flank. I don't know if this is what happened, but I've shot over 100 animals with NPs, and I've NEVER had a bullet failure. I've had no exit wound in 5 or less, only 2 that I can remember. I don't know anything about North Forks, but I DO know that NPs are good for anything besides dangerous game. And who knows, they might be okay for body shots on them. Anyone tried them on buffalo?

quote:

A premium bullet should be the choice. Barnes X is one, I dont think anyone would say that Nosler Partition is one.

I would call the NP a premium bullet.

Les, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attacking you, I'm not. But a handful of shots with a bullet, with admittedly poor shooting does not prove the bullet is subpar, and doesn't warrant warning someone not to use it.

I have shot many many feral hogs with a 95gr partition in a 243 win. Up to 250lbs. Right through the "tough" shoulder plates. Like a hot knife through butter.
There may be better options out there but everything I have ever shot with Nosler NP's dies quickly. (up the 375)
I have never seen the need to change or spend more money.
Stem to stern through Alaskan Moose (250 NP at 2920 FPS out of a 340 Weatherby at 50 yards) is a pretty good test. In the brisket and out the hip. That is a pretty violent impact at 50 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
IMHO, when you ask a question about 2 different weight bullets, of the same make, and THE designer/maker gives you advice on which one to use in a particular cartridge/situation, then you have your answer.

That's what I figure, also. Very glad he took the time to answer my question...much appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by Futrdoc:

I have to doubt the bullet exploded. A ballistic tip? yeah. Partition? not a chance.

quote:

A premium bullet should be the choice. Barnes X is one, I dont think anyone would say that Nosler Partition is one.

I would call the NP a premium bullet.

Les, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attacking you, I'm not. But a handful of shots with a bullet, with admittedly poor shooting does not prove the bullet is subpar, and doesn't warrant warning someone not to use it.

Futrdoc,

SAYING you are not attacking me does not obsure the fact that you were.

First you imply that I am either lying or very mistaken, as what I observed to have happened, could not have happened.

Then you indicate that my OPINION does not count nearly as much as your does.

Thank you for correcting my post. [I had however, very clearly described the circumstances, and my opinions as such. And, forgive me, there IS someone who thinks the NP is a premium.]]

We all take the information we receive and process it in our decision making. I will NEVER use Nosler Partions again. There is simply no reason to take that risk with trophy fees, there are too many premium bullets available.
You have decided otherwise, I wish you the best of luck!

Les

Fair enough Les, but I was trying to assert that your experience with the bullet was admittedly limited and had lots of other variables which you described, whereas my experience has been with more shots, and without as many of those variables. The bullet is a great bullet, not just a premium bullet.

If it were me, I would leave the Partitions at home. A-frames or TSX I consider slightly better bullets than the Nosler partition on larger game.

I do use Noslers exclusively in my '06. 180 grains of NP is deadly in the 06 on pigs and deer, Impala, Springbuck, Warthog, Bushbuck, etc. ...

When you jump up to Eland, Wildebeest, Gemsbuck and Zebra, I like a tougher bullet. 95% of the time it won't make a difference ... but I seem to find myself in that 5% about 50% of the time.

To be quite honest, comparing all the premium bullets is really splitting hairs at this point.

Bob

Sight in your rifle at 100 yards. Then shoot it at 200 and 300 with your 100 yard zero.

Then compare your velocity and drop figures with those in a good loading book. You can then get a fairly good estimate of your drop at longer ranges.