Just got word from KarlS that he indeed does have my leopard permit - so I am good to go...

What a relief...I knew Karl was organized and all buttoned up, but this really reconfirms. Only 12 days to wait...

Good for you! Good work Karl!

Best of hunters' luck with your actual hunt!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Best of luck, I can feel your relief

Tim - Good luck man, we are all looking forward to the pics! I sent you a message regarding the Antelope hunts too!

Aaron

Good luck Tim! Great to hear that everything is in line.

Great news, will try to meet up before you fly out after the hunt.

congrats! I hoped you would get it alright. Go get an 8 footer!

Tim,

GREAT relief! Now you can REALLY get on with the pre-Safari excitement.

Gave a GREAT time, and the best of good hunting luck!

That's good news Tim. Sounds like Karl is one of the good outfitters in that when someone books a leopard hunt he gets the permit.

There was never any doubt! Not with Karl at the helm!

Tim-The timing of your dates would indicate that I will be following right behind you.Hang plenty of baits and keep them fresh so all will be set when I move in to take over the turf

Seriously ,if you are still in town the night I arrive I would love to meet you for supper and possibly an adult beverage so you can give me the lay of the land....mike

Mike,

Would love to meet up for dinner and a few drinks if possible. I fly out on July 22. I am sure there will be plenty of baits out! If we are lucky enough to get a kitty before the last day, all the PG hunting will be a very relaxed affair, and we will be very flexible with time. When do you arrive?

good luck Tim!!
I hope you nail big tom

Tim have a great hunt and Karl is a stand up guy...

Mike

I just got back from Namibia. I was in-country when the permits were "pulled." Disccussed the issue at length with members of the Namibian Professional Hunters Association, including members of its ethics committee, as well as one of the larger taxidermists. Lots of politics going on. The larger outfitters are already working to squeeze out the little guys. What you'll see is that the bigger guys will simply take out a leopard permit for ALL their future clients, regardless of whether they book for leopard or not. Then they'll be some backdoor deals to "transfer" permits among clients. And in the end, only a few will control ALL the permits. And the prices? Take a guess.

This is not good for Namibian leopard hunting. These developments will only insure increased corruption in the Namibian leopard trade, which at the moment is second only to that of South Africa.

It'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

quote:

Then they'll be some backdoor deals to "transfer" permits among clients.

TWL, that would be highly illigal, as well as contradicting what CITES stand for. I believe that there should be a minimum charged for leopard, that only big game PH's should be allowed to hunt them, or at a minimum only PH's, NO hunting guides. Also, that there should be a penalty if a female is shot that was not a problem animal. I do not know who you talked to while in Namibia, but saying that the big guys will take over and push out the little guys, I guess they where referring more to a specific SOUTH AFRICAN outfitter that now hangs around here as if he owns the place. You are right though, there is lots of politics, corruption and especially jealousy in the leopard hunting arena.

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:
TWL, that would be highly illigal, as well as contradicting what CITES stand for.

MY understanding is that the practice of only buying permits once the hunt has been successful is also illegal. Isn't that what caused this problem?

quote:

MY understanding is that the practice of only buying permits once the hunt has been successful is also illegal. Isn't that what caused this problem?

dla69, that is definately illigal, as you must have the trophy hunting permit in your possession when hunting. I do not think that is what caused the problem, I think the easy way permits are issued, drawed too many worms out of the woodwork. I know of at least 3 SA companies that operate here, and the worst is our (current) law allows them. In the new draft lwas, I think they should put in a clause that a Namibian Safari company/ gueat farm/ hunting farm should be majority Namibian owned.

I won't be arriving until a week after you leave. I guess Karl may have a few days off. I will have to watch for your report so Pleeeease, get something up as soon as you get back.

Best of luck.I hope you get a great TOM.

Eyedoc,

If there is a week in between, I will definitely have a report done and up. May take a day or two, but I won't drag it out. I might even take the laptop and work on it on the ride home. Sorry I will miss you, but you can feel free to call me that week and we can chat.

Karl:

You are corrrect, it's illegal, but attempts to "corner the market" and also to somehow transfer clients' names will, in fact, take place. Hopefully the industry can police itself.

I think you'll agree also that the games played with leopard hunts in RSA are becoming more and more common in Namibia, with some very big names involved. I was given a pretty complete briefing and was extremely disappointed to hear about some of the stuff that goes on.

It's going to be up to the good guys to properly police the bad ones.

Regards.....

I am also just back and understand that much of the controversy surrounds unlicensed/unregulated houndsmen who have rapidly absorbed quota while the traditional bait/blind hunters see their opportunities reduced. As said, lots of politics and the promise for new regulation of the houndsmen.

Roger that.
The Namibian leopard hunting industry is to be watched----closely.
Best to all......TWL.

Way to go Tim. Good luck with Mr. Spots.

quote:

I think you'll agree also that the games played with leopard hunts in RSA are becoming more and more common in Namibia, with some very big names involved. I was given a pretty complete briefing and was extremely disappointed to hear about some of the stuff that goes on.

TWL,

Can you fill us in or start a new thread under the topic of "Leopard Games"? I'm interested in what you've learned.

My recent trip to Namibia included a brief by a member of the Namibian PH association regarding the increase in problems associated with leopard hunting in both RSA and Namibia.

I will not name names because there are investigations underway, and there have been cases previously brought to the attention of the association, although it's fair to say no one has been disciplined to any degree. Some very well known names in the industry have been involved.

In short, there are increasing incidents of leopards being trapped and drugged and/or otherwise abused, and then released in conjunction with the use of dogs. Leopards have been shot in the paw with 22's, and some have had 22 shorts fired up their rectum. The leopard is then released within a very short distance from where the dogs are, with obvious and predictable results. Most are simply drugged.

I also recieved information from a reliable source regarding a case involving the staff of a large taxidermy. Almost all the staff recently became ill at the same time and with the same symptoms. Turns out they all ate the same leopard delivered by a PH on behalf of a client. The supposition is that the leopard was drugged when it was killed. Emphasis on supposition.

At any rate, such practices have been going on in RSA for some, and in Zimbabwe to some extent since the use of dogs became legal. There is a core group of ethical and honest Namibian outfitters and PH's becoming increasingly concerned that such practices are on the rise in Namibia.

Namibian PH's and outfitters can weigh in here and explain the protocol for photographing dead leopards taken by clients. If I am correct, the leopard's face, mouth, gums and teeth must be photo'd. Leopards that have been trapped will abuse themselves in the cage. The purpose of the photos is to attempt to identify such cases.

With exportable leopard quota now at issue in Namibia, there will be increased activity by the dishonest to do whatever is necessary to first secure as many permits as possible, and then to insure the greatest success rate possible.

The above represents what I have been told by reliable sources within the Namibian PH association. These sources are hopeful the association will be able to police itself, as it is unlikely the government has the will or the resources to do so.

Prospective leopard clients booking in Namibia are encouraged to exercise due dilligence in the investigation of their outfitter(s).

quote:

Namibian PH's and outfitters can weigh in here and explain the protocol for photographing dead leopards taken by clients. If I am correct, the leopard's face, mouth, gums and teeth must be photo'd. Leopards that have been trapped will abuse themselves in the cage. The purpose of the photos is to attempt to identify such cases.

TWL, you are correct as to the photographs, and propably with regards to some people using drugs as well. It may be time to hand in a tissue sample of the cat as well...

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:

quote:

Namibian PH's and outfitters can weigh in here and explain the protocol for photographing dead leopards taken by clients. If I am correct, the leopard's face, mouth, gums and teeth must be photo'd. Leopards that have been trapped will abuse themselves in the cage. The purpose of the photos is to attempt to identify such cases.

TWL, you are correct as to the photographs, and propably with regards to some people using drugs as well. It may be time to hand in a tissue sample of the cat as well...

So if your lion's face looks too pretty or your leopard's face looks too rough......

My question is - can you book a leopard For 2010 and be guaranteed a cites permit ???????

Nothing is a sure bet in Africa, but talk to Karl. He should be finished with Tim's hunt.
David