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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Suggestions for DG rifle, please...Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I`m in the planning phase of buying/ordering a new DG rifle. My first actually. I have set the following criterias: - classic bolt action (Mauser, Winchester or CZ) - L.O.P at 16", which means custom stock, I guess. Not many factory rifles that can be delivered like this as I`ve heard. Anyone who knows. Because that would make a big difference for me in the future.   - .40 cal. + (.416, .404 or similar) - ghost sight, plus traditional african irons - hopefully not more than 2000USD I know there are many knowledgeable persons on this forum. Now, please get to work..   Anders Hunting and fishing DVDs from Mossing & Stubberud Media: www.jaktogfiskedvd.no ..and my blog at: http://andersmossing.blogspot.com | ||
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you could always take a winchester m70 and rebarrel it to 470 capstick 500 grain 470 nitro bullets at 2400 fps can be done for under 2k easy. or why not try cz new 505 gibbs. listing price was about 1800$. | |||
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I think I would go with a 416 Rem Mag for component availability and fatory ammo in a pinch and I would go with a Win mdoel 70 becuase a custom stock might be easiest there. Tou can get a custom fitted fiberglass stock from several places for about $550-$650. I suspect a custome wood stock for that caliber is going to be more... Althought I think you can get a seregenti stock for about $800-900 fitted and bed to a gun with cross bolts. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Anders, The only thing you mentioned that is of any concern at all is lengthening the stock. This can easily be accomplished with spacers and a good recoil pad. Your $2000.00 budget should easily cover tweaking a factory Mod 70 any way you would like it including sights, bedding, trigger job, slicking the feeding and lengthening your stock. Good luck, Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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The exchange rate is working for you now if you get a Winchester although the CZ might be more available. CZ has their classic safaris and the Americans in 4 or 5 different .40+ caliber rifles. Add a ghost ring rear sight, a crossbolt or two and a spacer for the LOP and you'd be under $2,000 US. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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My only cocncern about the spacers would be the size...with recoil pad most guns are nominally 13 1/2. The typical factory pad is probably inch and 1/4 on DGR....so that means the wood stock is actually 12 1/4 which means you are going to have 3.75 inches of spacers and pad...might look a little ugly... and we all know how important style points are... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike, I agree that many spacers would be ugly but I'm kind of a function first guy. If I could keep it in Ander's $2000.00 budget I would get a new synthetic stock. Anders, You must be one long tall Viking if you need a 16" LOP. I like 14"-14.25" and most people think my guns are way too long. I do think though that Europeans do have the right idea with longer LOP's and most of us Americans tend to shoot rifles that could be longer. Regards, Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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The new CZ-USA might be worth checking out as they are supposed to offer a degree of customising and might be able to do the length of pull you want and are $1800US to start with so might fit your budget. But 16 inchs is a long length of pull. Not your type of rifle, but Weatherby will go to a 16.5" length of pull but you have to do Build a Custom Gun with them and your $2000US budget will disappear rather quickly But the reason I mention Wby is that on those real long lenghth of pulls they have extended cheek piece, so perhaps that is something to keep in mind when getting a very long length of pull. Mike | |||
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anders, I don't know about the used gun market in Norway. But in Sweden you will find a used nice Brno ZKK in .375, .416 or .458 for under $1000. Look at sites like: www.torsbohandels.com or www.jaktia.se Husky | |||
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Anders, I see in the latest "Jakt" magazine that a Brno 602 in 375H&H is for sale for 5000 NOK (about US$800). You could then maybe build from this by changing barrels etc. | |||
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I would build up a Mauser 98 in 416 rem with a Brockman laminated stock with barrel band front sight, swivel and use a Receiver sight, thats an easy do for $2000 to $2500 if you don't get too fancy.. You can also get a extra thick recoil pad from jeffs outfitters..it is 1.5 inch thick...regular pads are 7/8 and 1 inch... FN action or M-70 action: $400-$500 Doug Barrel installed with sights etc. $350-$400 Laminated stock finished $400 Williams Peep sight $35.00 Blue $100 labor and cutting rails to feed $400 OR Buy a CZ for $650. and have Brockman install his laminated stock with a 16 inch pull for $250..Get the smooth finish.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I bought a CZ barreled action in 416 Rigby and then bought a stock from MacMillan for just over 400 USD if you like a synthetic stock. I don't know if they will go all the way to 16" on the length of pull (I asked for less) but it also included a Pachmayr Decelerator in that 400 USD price. This was for a drop-in stock. If you send them the action they will pillar bed it I believe. Since CZ is now chambering the 404 Jeffery, the 450 Rigby and the 505 Gibbs, you have a lot of good DG caliber options going this route. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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The market for custom-guns like this is not very big in Norway. It can easily be done, but often pretty expensive. In USA I think the choices are better, and easier availabel. I have had custom wooden stocks made back here earlier and was charged like 1500USD, only for the stock-work. And I did ask one of the most well-known gunmakers in Norway about L.O.P on syntethic stocks instead, and he told me the only way to go was to use spacers. I have contacted Bell & Carlson and MacMillan directly, and they can make longer L.O.P for a little extra. But I had to order through a norwegian dealer. And for MacMillan that was the guy who suggested spacers.. I know such a L.O.P is difficult, but I rather pay a little extra to get a well-fitting stock. But it is certainly a shame when it narrows down my choices. It can`t actually be to difficult for any factory to change such a measure. And Mark, I`m a 2 meter tall Viking.. 15 3/4" L.O.P is actually enough. Had made the conversion wrong.. I must say that a wooden stock is my first choice. But a laminated or syntethic is ok if they`re cheaper on L.O.P-adjustments.. 1 1/2" recoil pad This recoil pad looks good. The only one in 1 1/2" that I have ever seen. Have used spacers before, but only 1/2-1". That`s ok, but I must agree that 3 3/4 might look strange. Mauser, CZ or M70 will probably be my choice. Just depends on what kind of action I`ll run into, I guess. I have thought of 416 rem, but always liked the classic 416 rigby better. Lower pressure as well, right? Or are the pressure-problems with the rem, non-existing..? That`s probably not a big problem anyway. I guess I won`t be able to hunt elephant and buffalo every day, so.. And probably not in a long time. I just wants to get the rifle and start practising. I`m not a big fan of recoil actually..  Anders Hunting and fishing DVDs from Mossing & Stubberud Media: www.jaktogfiskedvd.no ..and my blog at: http://andersmossing.blogspot.com | |||
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I saw it as well. But what do you need to consider when deciding upon an action for a caliber. Action lenght I guess, but how to know how much pressure it can stand.. Might be a stupid question, but I`m not an gunsmithing expert. And husky, I`ll look into those sites. Even if it`s probably better for me to buy from a private owner in Sweden, to avoid the fee`s.. Anders Hunting and fishing DVDs from Mossing & Stubberud Media: www.jaktogfiskedvd.no ..and my blog at: http://andersmossing.blogspot.com | |||
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 It's a little pricey, but man what a dangerous game rifle. Makes my mouth water every time I see it. A Well's .458 Lott is on my Christmas list for sure, in fact, I think I'll go rummage around my gun safe and see if I can't find some weaponry I'm not currently using! On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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Ray, no offense intended, but those Brockman guns are ugly as hell. A guy is a lot better off with the factory rig. | |||
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500Grains That is a very pretty action. Must have cost a pretty penny. As far as the stocks go, no matter what you are going to have to get somebody to make you a stock, unless you do not mind the look of the spacers. If you could find a barreled action or used rifle for under a grand, then you have money to have a stock made. If you do not like the Brockman's then Serengeti has laminated stocks that are made from nice walnut, not birch, and the laminates are thick so you can't really see them unless you look at the stock from the top or bottom. They even have grades of wood up to special select(all for a price of course) | |||
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500 Grains, That action looks like the stock on a Weatherby Crown Custom And it looks like a Mauser with the back of a Model 70 bolt grafted on to it Mike | |||
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The best choice is the Ruger 77 Magnum in 416 Rigby or 458 Lott. The rifle comes 99 % ready to go. All it needs is trigger work........JJ " venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae " | |||
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JJ: I beg to differ a bit on the Ruger. I have one in 416 and I'm very happy with it....now. The gun was always accurate and fed/extracted well and the trigger was ok from the factory. However, the bolt had a nasty habit of hanging up -hard- at the last 1/4" of travel, or right before you would lower the handle. A trip to Mark Penrod fixed the problem, but had I left it unattended it could have produced bad results afield. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Oh yes, the Ruger, I forgot that one. Sure looks like a fine rifle. I will make contact with CZ, Ruger and Winchester and see if any of them can offer me a custom L.O.P.. If any feedback is positive, I`ll go for it, and rather make other improvements later.. Anders Hunting and fishing DVDs from Mossing & Stubberud Media: www.jaktogfiskedvd.no ..and my blog at: http://andersmossing.blogspot.com | |||
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How much extra work a DGR takes after purchase is a big question. It is also personal preference. I have not handled any of the current crop of CZ's in 404, 458, 505. I do have two CZ's in 416 and 404. Both have been tricked out, restocked tuned a bit and had things like firing springs replaced. You just can't tell when you walk out of the store what you have with an "off shelf" rifle. You will have to shoot it a bunch and carry it a bunch to figure out what you have/ how much else has to be done to it before facing down the big and dangerous. Unless you got deep pockets and can go the full custom route by a trusted smith, a bit of tinkering may be expected. How much tinkering is an individual thing for each rifle and hunter. On average I think the Rugers come with a bit less tinkering than Model 70's or CZ's. I have all mentioned brands and all have been modified. Your milage may vary. Have fun shopping and hunting. By the way you will just have to hunt some smaller non-DG stuff just to see if it works. Tough job but someone will have to do it Although cartridge selection is important there is nothing that will substitute for proper first shot placement. Good hunting, "D" | |||
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Jorge, thats what I ment, that 1 % of something that needs fixed. But its always something small like a burr on the receiver (yours) or trigger (mine). All the major work is done though.....................JJ " venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae " | |||
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I have a 585 for sale $2900 firm a great deal on an increadable rifle.. ps It does recoil a bit....DD If your parents didn't have any children chances are you won't either. | |||
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