South African Parliament Approves Gay Marriages


By SHARON LaFRANIERE

JOHANNESBURG, Nov. 14 — South Africa’s Parliament overwhelmingly voted today to legalize same-sex marriages, making the nation the first in Africa and the fifth in the world to remove legal barriers to gay and lesbian unions, according to activists.


The legislature voted after the nation’s highest court ruled that South Africa’s marriages statutes violated the constitution’s guarantee of equal rights. The court gave the government a year to amend the legal definition of marriage. That deadline expires in two weeks.

Melanie Judge, program manager for OUT, a gay rights advocacy group, noted that the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain and Canada were the only other countries to allow same-sex marriages nationwide. In most African nations, she said, homosexuality is still treated as a crime. Some penalties are stiffer than those for rape or murder..

Ms. Judge credited South Africa’s liberal constitution with forcing change.

“This has been a litmus test of our constitutional values,†she said in a telephone interview. “What does equality really mean? What does it look like? Equality does not exist on a sliding scale.â€

Religious groups and traditional leaders strenuously opposed the measure, arguing that if necessary the constitution should be amended to outlaw same-sex unions. But the ruling African National Congress virtually demanded that lawmakers support the bill.

Despite deep divisions within the party, the measure passed 230 to 41. It must now be approved by the Council of Provinces, a quasi-federal chamber, and be signed the president to become law.

Vytjie Mentor, the party’s caucus chairman, told the South African newspaper The Sunday Independent earlier this month that he expected legislators belonging to the African National Congress to vote for the measure, regardless of their personal views.

There is “no such thing as a free vote or a vote of conscience,†he said. “How do you give someone permission to discriminate in the name of the A.N.C.? How do you allow for someone to vote against the constitution and the policies of the A.N.C., which is antidiscrimination?â€

The new law allows both heterosexual and same-sex couples to register their unions either as marriages or civil partnerships. But in a concession to critics, it also allows civil officers to refuse to marry same-sex couples on the basis on conscience. Ms. Judge, the gay rights advocate, predicted that provision will be challenged in court.

“We can’t be in the situation where civil officers can decide who they want to marry and who they don’t want to marry,†she said. “They aren’t able to refuse to marry a black person and a white person. This is unconstitutional.â€

Hell, maybe it'll accelerate the AIDS epidemic and the animals might just have a chance jorge

This is a sad development.

jorge,

The same thought that immediately entered my twisted mind...

This post has nothing to do with African hunting and might be better suited to the political forum.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
This post has nothing to do with African hunting and might be better suited to the political forum.

465H&H

agreed

This affects African Hunting how???? And who gives a F..k!!!!!

quote:

His affects African Hunting how???? And who gives a F..k!!!!!

I'll second that....

Of course it affects it. Not nessesarily the subject of the article, but the general state of incompetence and chaos that the continent (for the most part) is sliding into. No one here can argue that the overall state of african game and ecology was in much better shape before. jorge

This would then assume that Canada is also sliding into the shitter due to gay marriage laws?

I'm willing to wager you'll have it within a decade in the states....there were already thousands on these 'unions' in SA, just as there are tens of thousands already in the US - just not state sanctioned (only sanctioned by the 'Mark Foley foundation').

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Of course it affects it. Not nessesarily the subject of the article, but the general state of incompetence and chaos that the continent (for the most part) is sliding into. No one here can argue that the overall state of african game and ecology was in much better shape before. jorge

Same must be said of Britian then, when they legalised it earlier this year, and Elton John could not wait to show the world how married he is to be gay!!

kayaker,

we stopped worrying about Canada as a world player about 1756. The post does belong on the political forum, I agree with 465H&H on that. That said...

The sad part about this, is that it does signal a further decline in moral values; and that is bad for the world. Talk as you will, a world where anything is allowed and no one is responsible for anything is too sad a scenario to contemplate. Civilization cannot long survive an environment where there is no RIGHT and no WRONG; a place where you have rights but no responsibilities to exercise those rights in a responsible manner. IE, you have the right to vote, but the responsibility to pick and choose the best person available. Do not blindly vote along party lines. Society is defined as a place in space and time where the inhabitants give up a certain minimum amount of personal freedom in exchange for security. Look at the Ten Commandments as the basic guidelines for living in a chaotic world. Don't murder, don't steal, don't covet others property or families, mind your own business, be responsible. Africa is such a mess today because the black majority has no concept of how to provide security and economic opportunities for the population. Our church is involved in Project Eden in Ethiopia, for about five years now. The people there cut trees down for firewood. The rains come, and the topsoil is washed away. The seasonal droughts come, and they starve. We started a program with the government to plant trees, build dams, and try and control erosion. It is an everyday struggle to keep the people from cutting the small trees down. The african seems to have no concept of tomorrow. Assisted living in the bush countries is setting grandma or grandpa outside the thorn bomas for the lions and hyenas to eat.

Enough on the soapbox here...
there is a chinese curse: "...may you live in interesting times...".

Rich

This sad situation has nothing to with hunting and belongs in the Political Forum.

Kayaker: Agreed, but I think you & Infinito missed my point. jorge

Ok, since we've all agreed that this is a political football, I'll take my turn punting this thing.

The government (everywhere) needs to get out of the marriage business. There is no way that anyone can make me believe that the stroke of a pen by a civil servant can bestow sanctity on a relationship. There needs to be two functions: one a civil function that is the legal joining of the affairs of two individuals and another religious function called marriage. The two are and should be completely separate. Gays should be entitled to the first function. The second function is at the discretion of the religious body in question.

The first function is to satisfy legal authority; the second is to satisfy you conscience.

Broke-Back Mountain in South Africa?

"That shit just ain't right!"

Idaho Sharpshooter...very well said. South Africa's slide into equilibrium with the rest of sub-Saharan Africa continues...

Sounds like South Africa might soon be buggered as a location ................

Jorge: Either you have some sort of humour (which I doubt) or you´re as dumb as your comments (which you seem to verify time and time again).

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Kayaker: Agreed, but I think you & Infinito missed my point. jorge

Got your point buddy, just wanted to say that shite is going on all over the place, and who gives a monkeys....there are more pressing issues, like the new "hunting act" that will get voted on in a couple of months. Now THAT is something I am interested in, not the poofs.....


Maybe we will have more gay clients come hunting now

quote:

I'm willing to wager you'll have it within a decade in the states....there were already thousands on these 'unions' in SA, just as there are tens of thousands already in the US - just not state sanctioned

Right you are. Only with the recent political victory of our "liberal party" (democrats) everywhere but the White House my guess is it'll be sooner than 10 years. Philosophically I couldn't care less is Bill wants to marry Bob. The problem will be costs such as health care suddenly jump when hundreds of thousands of "spouses" are entitled to benefits! Anyone from the insurance industry care to comment?

quote:

Originally posted by cewe:
Jorge: Either you have some sort of humour (which I doubt) or you´re as dumb as your comments (which you seem to verify time and time again).

Cewe: Sure, the last thing I need to worry about is an cheap-shot insult from a socialist blockhead like you real brave with the insults from so far away. I once again overestimated your ability to comprehend what are patently obvious tongue-in-cheek comments.

I just find it amazing how do-gooders like you ignore the obvious facts. Years ago, when the ANC was first coming on the world stage, Time magazine, a publication that I'm sure you love just as much as you did Pravda, published a photo of an ANC rally with Mandela leading the way.

Along with the ANC banner there was one just as prominent beside it, it was red and had a hammer & sickle and the ubiquitous photo of Che Guevara.

Infinito: I don't even know you,"buddy" and yes you do have much bigger issues than gay marriage, which was my point in the first place. jorge

edited

Wow, you did put me in place there, Sir...

Gay maraiges might be legal, but during the public hearings before it was accepted, all the churches and most of the black people was against it. Most of South Africans, black and white detest gays.

We have more urgent things on the agenda, as Infinito said, we can also add our fight for our firearms.

Didn't mean to {sic} put you in your place, just agreeing with your view that there are other issues to ponder, begginning with the ANC and their socialist agenda. Firearm confiscation is just one step among many all of which have a deliterious effect on many aspects and if some don't think anti-hunting is one of them, they should think again. jorge