According to my booking agent, he has received word from SCI that the new RSA gun import law has been changed. They are supposedly now willing to accept our form 4457 as an import permit. Doesn't make sense to me but that is what I am being told.

The RSA firearms laws change on June 1st. If you're coming in after that I would suggest you use Air 2000 in JIA.

You might also like to check recent posts by me or Kathi that have dealt extensively with this issue.

According to my booking agent who just got the info from SCI, all we need to do is show our Form 4457 on June 1 and thereafter.

Your booking agent is very wrong!..... if you follow his advice you'll regret it.

RSA now require 21 days notice of granting a temporary inport licence and a few other things. If you would like me to send you a copy of the new act just drop me an e-mail and I'll send it to you. I would also advise you to consider using the services of Air 2000 to speed up the process........ I might also advise you to use an agent who actually knows what he's doing next time

shakari-what about hunters who are in-transit, such as those continuing on to Namibia?

Spoke to my agent yesterday, she indicated the hunters that arrived 2 days ago only needed the 4457 and SAP311. Not sure about after June 1st. I leave in 8 days and will report back to the forum my experience.

Shakari,

I am going to Namibia via J'Burg on May 18th and returning the 28th. Obviously, this is before the June 1st changes. Is it still your reccommendation to use air 2000?

SBT:

I just got back from Namibia last night.

You do not need Air2000 in joberg for travel to Namibia under two conditions:

1) You are remaining in transit to Windhoek and are NOT overnighting in Joberg.

2) Your luggage is tagged to go directly to Windhoek. You should request this specifically at your initial point of departure! Failure to insist on this could see your luggage needing to be checked back in at Joberg. This will cause you problems.

Your travel agent or outfitter should send you a permit issued by the Namibian police to fill out ahead of time simply to save time in Windhoek. I made it through the police check much faster than I made it back through Canada customs on my return.

You should talk to email NAPHA for definitive answers to questions, but as far as I am aware, Namibia will not require all the crap that RSA wants.

Good luck!

Sheldon,

Thank you very much. Now, tell us about your hunt. Details man, I'm in need of a fix!

I'm just in the midst of transferring my diary to electronic form. Unfortunately a problem with power kept me from being able to use my laptop. Photos and details coming soon. First day back at work tomorrow! Slept most of today.

The new act is being applied from 1st June and the cops say there will be NO exceptions whatsoever after that date, and this will effect passengers transferring through as well as just coming to RSA.

Air 2000 charge US$70 per passenger with firearms and IMO it's gotta be well worth it just to make sure you don't lose your firearms.

What will actually happen to those people who simply do't have 21 days between now and their arrival date I have no idea......but sure as shootin' someone's gonna find themselves with no rifles for their hunt.

The top-cop in charge of the firearms unit at JIA is an Inspector Conroy who can be called on his cell-phone at +27827872906 .......but as he's the last guy in the world you want to piss off on this, I suggest you remember the time difference.

Guys, I've also gotta say that your agent & outfitter should have been up to speed on this some time ago. If they're not, then you should be asking yourselves why not.

This industry is full of people that don't know the meaning of the word professionalism but it's no excuse for the client to tolerate it...... If they can't offer you the most basic of customer service then you should be booking elsewhere next time.

South African Airlines is meeting with the South African Police regarding the in-transit permit today in JNB.

I will post the outcome.


Kathi


kathi@wldtravel.com

shakari

You got a link to Air 2000?

Their website is www.air-2000.com. You could not ask for anyone nicer or more responsive than Anne. She is absolutely wonderful.



Shannon

gotogirl3



P.S. Didn't mean to horn in on someone else's thread!

Steve,



Why should a visiting sports man need to pay a private company just to get their firearms through customs?



Surely it can't be that difficult? As of July 1st, what rules will the visior actually have to follow?



Being from the UK, I can't imagine an other country with more red tape than us!



Regards,



Pete

You know, if they start making it too much trouble I can just take my unappreciated tourist dollars and hunt in a different country. There are lots of other destinations besides RSA. That also means not transiting through RSA as well. I can always borrow a gun when there and avoid the hassle but it will become the principle of the thing. Lets see what they think if they start loosing hard currency. I love South Africa dont get me wrong. However if it becomes too inconvenient I think a lot of people will just look elswhere.

I leave for RSA in July. I thought I had just finished doing all my dances for my guns but it looks like I still have more to do, and I dont even know what it is yet. How am I supposed to give them a 21 day notice?? I guarantee that if I have a bad experience I will never go back no matter how much I might like it. Theres many other places willing to take my money with much less hassles....

Guys, SA is not the only country that requires firearms importation to be arranged in advance. Botswana is another, and believe me, the hunters haven't boycotted that country. It would not be an exaggeration to say that Botswana is one of the most desirable Safari destinations in Africa today. The only thing that is somewhat unsettling is the contradictory information, but that's Africa. And I believe most of the confusion is created by self-appointed experts who haven't read the new regulations, that are there in black and white for all to see. Anyone tried to get a firearm into Spain, for example? Just as much red tape. Not to mention the UK, and the USA for that matter (anyone heard of form 6???)

My advice: figure out the requirements, fill out the forms, and don't get your knickers in a knot.

Pete E,



I'm not trying to promote them at all and nobody should feel pressured to use them and in fact all you guys who are coming here or transitting through should have been told of all this by your agent/outfitter. (after all, that's what you pay them for) We as a company knew changes were coming, and as soon as we knew what they were, we told all our clients who were affected all about it.....and absorbed the additional cost. It's only the guys who are using ineffecient second rate agents and outfitters who are still unaware of the changes.....so in some ways I'm doing their jobs for them and getting my opposition out of trouble.



My company is anticipating (as it's Africa) that there will be lots of confusion and delays (critical with tight transit times etc) So we are using Air2K services to efficiently ease our clients passage.....what amazes me, is that I am being buried in e-mails from the agents & outfitters who are supposed to know the business and obviously don't.....perhaps this is an example of those guys who hunt Africa twice and then set up as an 'instant expert agent'....... and then leave their clients floundering in an African airport not knowing what to do.

Indeed you are, Steve, and many of us, myself included, are grateful and will keep it in mind that you have been so far ahead of the curve on this.

I have already contacted Anne and am making arrangements to have Air 2000 assist me in July with my RSA "In Transit" permits. US$70 is short money for the kind of personal assistance they offer.

Thanks.

Shakari,
I really appreciate what you do. Thanks.
All this has made me confused of what to do. I have talked to Anne at Air2000 and she was very kind and helpfull. But I told her that I needed to speak to my PH about this before making any desicions. I have send an e-mail to my PH who I am going to hunt with in Zimbabwe from May 19. - June 3. He is based in RSA.
Then yesterday I talked to him. He was on a promotiontour in Scandinavia now. And when he departed from Johannesburg Int. Airport he went to customs and talked to them about this subject. He asked them whether there were any new rules or regulations regarding hunters from Europe comming through RSA in transit to Zimbabwe with rifles. And they said "NO - everything is as it always has been as long as you are in transit only"
So he suggested that I do as originally planned: Check inn my rifle and luggage directly from Denmark to Victoria Falls in Zimbabwe and not worry about it.

But I do still worry, because I read all these posts on this forum. And now I really vannot make up my mind regarding what to do

I just recomend what Shakari says; Call Inspector Conroy and hear some very good news!

Obviously this is a decision that is up to each individual and is probably somewhat based on travel experience, etc., but I am one of those people that tries to compare the situations and then make a decision. So, spend $70 and have Air2000 do their thing and it be overkill or decide that because of all the confusion it is probably unnecessary and be the one person whose guns get "detained" for the entire trip. If the price was $700, I could see really thinking it over, but for a trip of a lifetime I don't think $70 is that big a deal.

JMO,
Shannon
gotogirl3

To all,

I just spoke to Inspector Conroy at Johannesburg Int. Airport who as Shakari wrote "is the top-cop in charge of the firearms unit at JIA".
That was interesting indeed. He was a nice guy, and he confirmed, that there are NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER. It is all just a rumor and things are the way they always have been regarding hunters in transit with rifles. He told me, that I could check inn my rifle from Denmark directly to Victoria Falls, and that I would experience no problems regarding this in JIA.

So that is what I am going to do !

4-21-2004 at 4:56 am Chicago time.

I spoke with South Africa Police about the meeting yesterday with South African Airlines and the In-Transit form WILL NOT be required if going through South Africa onto another country.

You would check your baggage to your final destination.

If you overnight in South Africa, you would fill out the importation form as is currently being done.


Kathi

kathi@wldtravel.com

UH

I understand that the chap you spoke to was a very nice man and he said no problem, and I dont doubt him for one moment, but just remember that everything is verbal and just say when you get to Jo-burg that he is not there at that time and you get someone else who knows nothing !!!

I dont want to be confusing just to point out that a telephone call is not a written confirmation taht is all

Good luck anyhow, if the rules have not changed you should be fine

Peter

Peter,
I agree with you. But I will take that chance.

I posted this on your other thread, so be patient with me.

Kathi, as usual you're right on top of things, which I really like. Any chance anyone is going to put this little tidbit in any official document that can be presented if anyone at the airports is confused?

Thanks,

Shannon

Thanks so much for that. As I'm sure everybody can appreciate, traveling with firearms can be a very worrysome thing in these days. But, just to be sure, I am hunting in S.A. in July. So, everything is still the same for me?? Thats the way I am reading this. This so called new law was supposidly just for people traveling thru S.A.?? Thanks again for putting my mind more at ease....

Dear Travel Partner,

We have received the following from the Manager of AviationSecurity at JNB:

"Passengers traveling on the services of SAA from any destination outside the borders of South Africa and who transit in Johannesburg to a third destination in Africa do NOT require a "Transit" permit. The baggage/firearm can be through-checked to the final destination."

The only time when such a permit is required is when the passenger wants to leave the transfer area and enter South Africa. The transit permit can then be obtained from the South African Police Services at the airport in terminal 2.

We are told that this is definitive, and should end all rumors regarding this procedure. If you hear anything to the contrary, please let me know. Should there be any changes, we will inform you immediately.



Best regards,

Brian Hurta
Sales Development Manager - Central
South African Airways
Houston, TX




Kathi

kathi@wldtravel.com

I was just about to post the above, as I recieved exactly the same message. So I guess I second the statement. Seems to be on key.

Kathi's information is correct regarding the "In-Transit" permit not being required, provided you connect from and to a South African Airways flights. If you are arriving on South African Airways and departing on another airline then, at this stage, you would be required to obtain the "In-Transit" permit.

In response to Steve Shakari Robinsons post about having to obtain a permit 21 days in advance is correct, however the specific regulation he is referring to does continue on to th effect that it may be obtained on arrival. Below is an excerpt from the new South African gun regulations, Chapter 6, which states that it may be obtained on arrival.

(4) Non-resident: Temporary import and export permit of a firearm not licensed in terms of the Act

(a) An application by a person who is a non-resident and not the holder of a permanent resident permit for a temporary import permit and the subsequent export permit or multiple import and export permit in respect of any firearm or ammunition not licensed under the Act, may be submitted either to the Head: Central Firearms Register directly or to the Designated Firearms Officer at the place designated as a port of entry in terms of the Immigration Act, 2002 (Act No. 13 of 2002) where the applicant will enter into the Republic of South Africa. (b) An application submitted directly to the Head: Central Firearms Register in terms of subparagraph (a) must be lodged at least 21 days prior to the arrival of the applicant in the Republic of South Africa and the applicant must supply an address outside the borders of the Republic of South Africa whereto the permit will be posted.
(c) The permit in respect of an application submitted to the Designated Firearms Officer on the arrival of the applicant at the port of entry contemplated in subparagraph (a), may be issued by the Designated Firearms Officer who receive the application only if the Designated Firearms Officer concerned is delegated thereto.

Hope this helps

Steve Turner
Gracy Travel International,Inc
steve@gracytravel.com

OK--So if I want to stay in S.A. to hunt then I need this permit? Does this mean that I dont get it for 21 days? Does this pertain to me at all? Will I be able to get off the plane and register with the police and then go hunting>>I guess thats the easiest way to say it so I can understand it...sorry I'm not normally this thick...really

Hi Axter

If you are hunting in South Africa then you would check your baggage to Johannesburg and obtain the firearms permit on arrival. You do not need to apply for it in advance. Ensure you have Customs Form 4457 "Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad" stamped by US Customs with all your firearms details. For the South African Police this like a Certificate of Ownership or license.

Hope this helps.

Further to my posting regarding the "In Transit" permit, it appears from sources in Johannesburg that it will not be required, no matter what airline you arrive on into Johannesburg and connect with. No official ruling in black and white yet but we hope to get it.

Steve
steve@gracytravel.com

Steve is the best...I am glad to see him online with us.

Urdubob

Thanks Steve. Yes I have all my forms ready. I also made copies of my passport. Whew--its getting close and I was starting to worry...thanks again.

Steve (Shakari)


I understand the reason why you value the service of Air2K in your situation, and please believe me when I say it’s not the money here, it’s the principle.

I have heard many horror stories about travelers pitching up in the UK with their firearms and having a very hard time with HM C&E.

When you talk to some of these folks, it obvious they don't have a clue about our firearm laws and instead get all indignant that things are not like back home.

When I travel to JIB, I want to arrive informed and knowledgeable about the laws and what to expect. It is only then do I know if I am being taken for a ride by Officialdom. Africa being Africa there will always be an element of confusion and change, but tell me the rules and I will play the game.

This is not a crack at you and I appreciate you and the other pros here taking the time and trouble to post information for us especially when it might be doing the oppositions job!


Regards,

Pete

Hi Pete,

Thanks for your kind comments......don't think I'm trying to promote Air 2K in any way, and as you say the principle of having to use them is galling to say the least!

I've had personal experience of UK Customs & Irritations. I'm a Brit myself and often travel on my UK Firearms Certificate......I'm also one of the very few who are still licenced in the UK to posess a handgun (and always will be) and the last time I flew in with it the bastards called the cops and had me arrested for travelling with a weapon of war!......honestly what a crock of shit. Eventually I got a full apology from the cops..... but never from customs & Irritations!

This new act is a complete stuff up and it's going from bad to worse at the moment.....not even the cops or PHASA have got a handle on it, so how can they expect us poor bloody outfitters to understand it.