The antis are claiming victory for convincing Toronto and Saskatoon hotels not to host African Hunting Events but the funny/ironic thing is that the events are still going ahead at new venues and these petitions and their results gave loads of free publicity to the African Hunting Events. I'm not really sure what they think they won. There's a similar one to shut down the SCI Convention in Vegas right now....I'm sure SCI loves the free publicity too.

https://www.change.org/p/holid...OySM3mVDXsCbc0T5M%3D

https://www.change.org/p/manda...paign=fb_send_dialog

There is another side of the coin to look at.

The anti's may be stupid, but they DID get two places to turn down hosting the events.

If you have not figured it out, that is how it starts.

For any place to cave in, it just makes it that much easier to get others to follow suit.

At the end of the day, the hotels, at least the one is Saskatoon will be the biggest loser. They did a pile of business with outfitters, hunters and hunting groups. It's all gone. At some point these businesses will learn that antis have a lot of time to play on the internet while hunters are busy working to make disposable income to spend or not spend at their establishments. If you read the links I posted the antis are claiming they shut the events down. They did no such thing. They just gave a ton of free publicity to African Hunting Events and I suspect the new venues will also reap the rewards. The antis won nothing. They just helped point out what businesses we should boycott! Hunters spending their money with a social conscience is how it begins!

I have stayed at the Saskatoon Inn in transit to bear hunts and fishing trips to Canada. It won't happen again and I told them so in an e mail.

Everything you say is true, but, you would think the folks running those places would have taken such things into consideration, evidently they didn't.

As far as the long term effects, only time will tell.

Antis are so stupid. Tell us something we don't know.
Cal

Cal & Sheep,

Unfortunately, they aren't stupid. They are ignorant, misguided, and a whole lot of other adjectives I could use, but they are conniving little bastards, not stupid. That's why they are such a challenge.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
The antis are claiming victory for convincing Toronto and Saskatoon hotels not to host African Hunting Events but the funny/ironic thing is that the events are still going ahead at new venues and these petitions and their results gave loads of free publicity to the African Hunting Events. I'm not really sure what they think they won. There's a similar one to shut down the SCI Convention in Vegas right now....I'm sure SCI loves the free publicity too.

They should just run it right here on Accurate Reloading.

For such a stupid lot they sure seem to be doing a good job of kicking our asses on a regular basis.

[/QUOTE] They should just run it right here on Accurate Reloading.[/QUOTE]

Haha...a lot of truth there!

Yes they are misguided. And they make a lot of claims. On everything.

But I disagree that they are kicking anything.

Making noise sure. Stopping hunting - not even close. I say it all the time now - there is something like 20 MILLION hunters in the US. Then add in the rest of the world. It will take a lot more antis to really make a dent in that. Those are guys and gals making and taking real action. Not keyboarding and Facebooking.

Sure there is the lion thing. And rhino. But there is a heck of a lot more hunting than lions and rhinos. Other than guys on AR, I dont think I know more than a handful of guys that are all that up in arms. And some of them do a lot of hunting. They don't post on the internet much, but they hunt a lot.

Sure there are Africa issues. Has there ever been a time when there is not some kind of issue in Africa? It goes with it. When I first went in the 1980s there was issues even then. But African hunting has boomed since. Make no mistake about that !

We just need to keep doing our part, going hunting, adding hunters, and working on conservation both directly and in channels and it will work out. Maybe not perfectly but it will work out.

I was just re-reading Warren Pages book.

Mr Page writes that we need more hunters, more young guys, more conservation, and to take the lead in conservation and politics. He writes in his Foreward of the antis who don't want hunting and want you to go in to their just dull gray blob. And of course he recognizes that a LOT of the anti movement is about GUNS ! And the idea that THEY don't want YOU to have guns. That is significantly larger and a real agenda today that we too frequently want to act like isn't there. It is.

He also goes in to that there are over 20 million hunters. More than at any time in modern history and more SPORT hunters than at any time EVER.

Warren wrote that in 1969.

So in the nearly 50 years since he wrote that we have even more species and even more worldwide hunting. So hunters aren't doing bad overall guys. We sure don't have to hang up our guns and lick our wounds yet.

I think you are being a tad naive. With all due respect, it is not just the lion issue. It is the elephant trophy importation issue, it is the airlines refusing to carry trophies as cargo, it is attempting to change the requirements for carrying firearms outside the country, it is hotels refusing to host hunting-related events, it is Facebook shutting down certain hunting-related accounts . . . it is a growing list of issues some large and some small. I think the battle is far from lost -- although there are many on AR who feel with conviction just the opposite -- but let's not deceive ourselves, the antis have been winning far more battles than we have for some time now.

They are not kicking our asses, they fuck up other stupid people businesses
Hunting will always go on
Those two butt fuck hotels just shot themselves in the head
Serves them right

It is either true or it isn't. That isn't naive at all.

Are there issues - yes. Have there ALWAYS been issues - Yes. Will there still be issues - Yes.

Now lets recognize the FACT again that very recently ( whether that is this year or last or a year before matters not) there is (was) more sport hunting done in Africa than at any time ever before in the history of sport and safari hunting .

Is that true or not?

In just pure numbers of hunters picking up a rifle and going hunting. Not the per capita, or per percent of increase, or any other statistic other than just the number of actual boots on the ground.

The answer is yes it is true.

DSC set a record. And I bet SCI did too. So with that, and with the actual hunting, in the US, in Africa, in Asia, in S America, we have won a lot of battles. To not acknowledge that is only a personal decision.

Of course there are issues. Hell this whole country (USA) is completely divided on EVERY issue. You can turn on the TV and see the root of a lot of it on any night from the White House. Does anybody expect there not to be some isses in hunting - especially given that it has guns and individual rights associated with it. These guys have a real agenda and hunting is just a part of it. Is this political. You bet. And to not recognize as such is indeed naive. This same division applies in other countries as well.

I see and hear this all the time in sports cars. My other affliction.

Guys wish for the "good old days" before antis and before government and insurance rules and all of that. Are you even kidding me?

My wife's sedan out there will smoke most of the cars from the good old days. Heck you can buy a Hyundai with 350 hp. Apparently no one really remembers the 190 hp Corvettes.

And today you can walk down to a dealer with a few more dollars and buy a factory production car that will push nearly 200 mph. And hold approaching 1.5 g's through a corner. With a license plate on it! All you have to do besides learn how to drive it, and pay for it, is to put the key in it.

These are the good old days right now. In hunting too. There are similar parallels in hunting to the cars too.

Of course we should continue to be diligent and to be active and pro active and to fight for our causes and sport(s) too. When considering the overall sport, while we are under pressure that has been there before too , I don't think we are losing.

Oh and before I forget - thats the way to go to all you Canadian guys. For changing the hotel and going on with the show. Great job guys and I hope you sell it out and fill it up.

The vast majority of anti's are women. Specifically 18-34 unmarried women.

quote:

Originally posted by TGDjr:
The vast majority of anti's are women. Specifically 18-34 unmarried women.

With an average of 4.6 cats.

quote:

Originally posted by TGDjr:
The vast majority of anti's are women. Specifically 18-34 unmarried women.

Hmmmmm . . you would think that hunting guys might be interested in that lol.

I know what you mean though. Heck right here, as I have said a bunch in the past few months here on AR, I have run into that with my younger buddies wives or girlfriends. But at the same time ew have converted a few and brought a few more in the fold too. One of them was a really good convert. Heck she wouldn't let him have a gun or hunt or even hear of any of it. Now she is going to the Safari Show and giving lunches with trophies having on the wall lol. Hey I did have to butter her up but some are worth it. But there are others too.

In the past 8 years since a lot of this got even bigger I have probably got more gals as gun owners and a few as hunters, and more as ok with it, than I ever remember before in the same period of time anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
They are not kicking our asses, they fuck up other stupid people businesses
Hunting will always go on
Those two butt fuck hotels just shot themselves in the head
Serves them right

You must have been a Marine or Sailor in a previous life.

I agree serves the cunts right, anti idiots don't book big hotels for conventions with billion dollar sales. Eventually someone will figure that out. They rarely can be bothered to get parks permits for their gatherings of weirdos.

We are the money, as it is a business. We need to figure out a way to stop them from fucking over the government with lawsuits without hurting ourselves.

Create a law that makes it illegal to sue the Federal Fish and Wildlife Service for financial gain. That would fuck those bastards.

Tex:
You left a major item out of your list.
You need to find a road open enough to fire those things up on without going to jail or running over others.

George

Very true.

As a guy who spent way too much time racing, trying to race, or thinking about racing, and money of course lol, I tell all the younger guys to find their way to the race track. When they aren't in hunting season of course.

We can all agree that as far as we are concerned the majority of the antis are generally stupid but the bottom line being that this mass of fervently misguided, ignorant, sentimental, conniving, etc. humanity is so aptly manipulated by a handful of the smarter ones who have a well calculated agenda on their minds.

These brainwashed supporters are comparable to members of a cult who would do anything for their leader and that's the problem when petitions are put forward as they will sign blindly.

The two hotels hotels that bowed to the antis and turned down the African Hunting Events will not have lost as much business as some claim; most hunters going to that part of the world will continue to make use of their facilities and hospitality which is being paid for just as they would pay in any other hotel or are we talking in terms of cutting off one's nose to spite his face?

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

The two hotels hotels that bowed to the antis and turned down the African Hunting Events will not have lost as much business as some claim; most hunters going to that part of the world will continue to make use of their facilities and hospitality which is being paid for just as they would pay in any other hotel or are we talking in terms of cutting off one's nose to spite his face?

The hotel In Saskatoon will lose a lot of hunting business. Count on it! This was the favoured hotel for outfitters to house clients and for hunting groups to hold banquets. It is no longer. There are other options. Until hunters start to talk with their wallets nothing will change.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

The two hotels hotels that bowed to the antis and turned down the African Hunting Events will not have lost as much business as some claim; most hunters going to that part of the world will continue to make use of their facilities and hospitality which is being paid for just as they would pay in any other hotel or are we talking in terms of cutting off one's nose to spite his face?

The hotel In Saskatoon will lose a lot of hunting business. Count on it! This was the favoured hotel for outfitters to house clients and for hunting groups to hold banquets. It is no longer. There are other options. Until hunters start to talk with their wallets nothing will change.

Well , I would hope so. Supporting that Hotels biggest competition in town would be great. Let them know every time you book into another hotel or use their facilities.

quote:

Originally posted by TGDjr:
The vast majority of anti's are women. Specifically 18-34 unmarried women.

In my experience (and I, unfortunately, have a fair bit with antis), they are women 40-60 who are divorced and either childless or empty-nesters with sufficient disposable income to fulfil their fantasies of saving everything that breaths (ie. they did well in the divorce). And they have zero conscience when it comes to destroying any business that doesn't cowtow to them.

The 18-34 crowd are too busy getting drunk and fucked and trying to establish a career. They may hit "like" on Facebook a lot but they aren't out pounding the pavement like the older broads.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:

The hotel In Saskatoon will lose a lot of hunting business. Count on it! This was the favoured hotel for outfitters to house clients and for hunting groups to hold banquets. It is no longer. There are other options. Until hunters start to talk with their wallets nothing will change.

Instead of bitching and moaning here what everybody in the hunting community should do is write a letter to every hotel who backs out of a deal with a hunting related gathering stating that the thousands of hunters will no longer utilize their facility for any reason, regardless whether it has anything to do with hunting or not. Then send the same letters to every news media in the world.

This will only cost you a few minutes of your time, and a couple of postage stamps!
................................................................................................................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:

The hotel In Saskatoon will lose a lot of hunting business. Count on it! This was the favoured hotel for outfitters to house clients and for hunting groups to hold banquets. It is no longer. There are other options. Until hunters start to talk with their wallets nothing will change.

Instead of bitching and moaning here what everybody in the hunting community should do is write a letter to every hotel who backs out of a deal with a hunting related gathering stating that the thousands of hunters will no longer utilize their facility for any reason, regardless whether it has anything to do with hunting or not. Then send the same letters to every news media in the world.

This will only cost you a few minutes of your time, and a couple of postage stamps!
................................................................................................................................................................

SCI spearheaded an email campaign that ended up crashing the hotel server and many businesses have released statements that they will no longer patronize the hotels...particularly the Saskatoon Inn. People have cancelled weddings at the hotel.

Lol, I was teasing my wife about women voting and how the men who gave that power away were utter morons. To my chagrin she completely agreed, saying "yes that WAS stupid, only an idiot gives power away".

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
SCI spearheaded an email campaign that ended up crashing the hotel server and many businesses have released statements that they will no longer patronize the hotels...particularly the Saskatoon Inn. People have cancelled weddings at the hotel.

How many emails did SCI members send?

BWW, just a foot soldier in military with distinction of being discharged at the end of my duty as a private.
For simple reasons of always arguing with anybody with rank and fighting anyone that thought they were superior to me...

quote:

Originally posted by jeff32:

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
SCI spearheaded an email campaign that ended up crashing the hotel server and many businesses have released statements that they will no longer patronize the hotels...particularly the Saskatoon Inn. People have cancelled weddings at the hotel.

How many emails did SCI members send?

No idea...just know it was lots.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

The two hotels hotels that bowed to the antis and turned down the African Hunting Events will not have lost as much business as some claim; most hunters going to that part of the world will continue to make use of their facilities and hospitality which is being paid for just as they would pay in any other hotel or are we talking in terms of cutting off one's nose to spite his face?

The hotel In Saskatoon will lose a lot of hunting business. Count on it! This was the favoured hotel for outfitters to house clients and for hunting groups to hold banquets. It is no longer. There are other options. Until hunters start to talk with their wallets nothing will change.

So, how do we ensure that the fishing and hunting outfitters operating in the area (along with their clients) are aware of the Saskatoon Inn's recent cancelling of the African Hunting Events? Most deer, bear, and waterfowl hunters are probably unaware of this ongoing issue. Hopefully, the hunting and fishing magazines that cater to these hunters/fishermen will advise their readers of the cancellation and the hotel's anti-hunting mentality.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:

quote:

Originally posted by jeff32:

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
SCI spearheaded an email campaign that ended up crashing the hotel server and many businesses have released statements that they will no longer patronize the hotels...particularly the Saskatoon Inn. People have cancelled weddings at the hotel.

How many emails did SCI members send?

No idea...just know it was lots.

As of December 21, there were more signatures on the anti-hunters' petition than letters that had been submitted by hunters. That is one reason the anti-hunters are winning . . . hunter apathy and indifference.

Want to send a letter, here is the link. Takes less than 30 seconds.

Thanks Mike
Sent one in

TJ.......... you should do a short commentary on one of your hunting episodes. I do no know if that can be done, but it would sure get the message out there to the thousands of hunters who do not belong to SCI, never go on AR, and don't even belong to their provincial fish and game associations.

Just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by Cajun1956:

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

The two hotels hotels that bowed to the antis and turned down the African Hunting Events will not have lost as much business as some claim; most hunters going to that part of the world will continue to make use of their facilities and hospitality which is being paid for just as they would pay in any other hotel or are we talking in terms of cutting off one's nose to spite his face?

The hotel In Saskatoon will lose a lot of hunting business. Count on it! This was the favoured hotel for outfitters to house clients and for hunting groups to hold banquets. It is no longer. There are other options. Until hunters start to talk with their wallets nothing will change.

So, how do we ensure that the fishing and hunting outfitters operating in the area (along with their clients) are aware of the Saskatoon Inn's recent cancelling of the African Hunting Events? Most deer, bear, and waterfowl hunters are probably unaware of this ongoing issue. Hopefully, the hunting and fishing magazines that cater to these hunters/fishermen will advise their readers of the cancellation and the hotel's anti-hunting mentality.

Hunters are making them them aware!

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:
TJ.......... you should do a short commentary on one of your hunting episodes. I do no know if that can be done, but it would sure get the message out there to the thousands of hunters who do not belong to SCI, never go on AR, and don't even belong to their provincial fish and game associations.

Just a thought.

Our shows are shot too far a head of time but I just wrote an article on the exact subject.

They run circles around us, not because they are stupid but because they are smart.

What do we do? I see that on this blog there is a lot of name calling and trash talking that makes us look even worse. It deminishes us. It's embarrasing.

We should put our best foot forward, like they do, and market ourselves better.
We should behave better and not talk like ignorant people.

Now, just watch all the ignorant and defensive shit that rolls back on this post making us look even stupider. We make it too easy for them. Brian

So, you think the anti-hunters are not getting their points noticed and can't make a dent in the hunting world? Next time you are at an event or attend a hunting club or hunting camp..just look around and see what the old hunter to young hunter ratio is....maybe THAT will open your eyes a bit. The decline in NEW hunters is what is going to have the greatest negative impact. In twenty years there will be 30% less hunters and in 50 years 60% less. Who will be left to pick up the fight? A hunting camp I go to has 25 members, the ages range from 58 to 78....you getting the picture now? Most of the members have children and grandchildren of hunting age..but darn few hunt and those that show any interest never show up. If the children are not in it..it is going to die. The anti-hunters play a big role in persuading young people that hunting is bad....oh, thats right - they are stupid!

Woodrow S, I am with you!

Where are all the youngsters? You are one of the few people that has ever mentioned that vital fact. Good eye! Brian