Hello Saeed and fellow members,

I guess many of you guys have seen the letter below but for those who haven't I'd like to share. We really need to take this seriously.



January 27, 2009

Barbara Crown, Editor
The Hunting Report
9200 S. Dadeland Blvd., Suite 523
Miami, FL 33156, USA

To the Editor:

John Jackson’s recent call for assistance on lion conservation has increased awareness of the need for hunter-conservationists to be involved in this issue. Safari Club International Foundation (SCIF) thought it appropriate to update you and your readership on the history and current status of this issue

In 2004, the conservation status of the African lion was brought to prominence at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Fauna and Flora in Thailand. It was Kenya who proposed listing the African lion as an “endangered,” or “Appendix I” species, which would have banned commercial international trade in lions. Kenya withdrew its proposal after it was generally agreed that commercial international trade was not the problem for lion conservation and a group of African lion range states proposed to host a series of workshops to develop regional strategies for lion conservation and management. After the lion listing proposal was dropped, the southern African countries asked the IUCN (International Union for the Conservation of Nature) to help produce the workshops. The SCIF was instrumental in developing and promoting the workshop strategy and became a major private funder of the workshops.

Two workshops were held to develop regional conservation strategies for the African lion. The first workshop brought together 14 West and Central African lion range states to a workshop in Douala, Cameroon, in October, 2005. The second workshop brought together 15 lion range states from Eastern and Southern Africa to a workshop that took place in Johannesburg, South Africa in January, 2006. As you can see by examining the documents in the attached links (http://www.catsg.org/catsgportal/bulletin-board/05_strategies/Lion%20Conserv%20Strat%20E&S%20Africa%202006.pdf, and http://www.catsg.org/catsgport...20Afric_2006_E.pdf), many organizations have contributed to the development of final regional plans.

The regional strategies included objectives formulated to address the leading threats to lions and a number of specific actions were recommended. The chief of these actions was to develop a “stepped-down” strategy to the national level for each lion range state. Once each range state had a tangible plan to conserve and manage lions, they would focus on implementing the plan with their available resources.

The SCIF has an extensive history and commitment in wildlife conservation in southern Africa and considers the development and implementation of the national lion management plans in all range states a top priority. Although some countries have management plans that include lions, such as Botswana, several countries do not. Since the conclusion of the regional workshops, SCIF has sponsored meetings in Zimbabwe and Namibia for the production of national-level lion management plans, and Zambia recently held their own workshop. SCIF has secured funding to assist Mozambique, Tanzania, and Malawi in holding workshops to develop their national plans. In addition, SCIF has funded a lion survey in Mozambique this year. SCIF has supported Dr. Paula White in her efforts to provide the necessary scientific research about the physical characteristics of lions in Zambia (nose color, mane development, etc) related to age to refine the sustainable use of this species. Finally, the past November SCIF co-hosted our 7thAfrican Wildlife Consultative Forum in Namibia, a meeting where lion conservation and human-lion conflict were the two dominant topics.

Funding is essential to assist the range states completion and implementation of their national lion plans. We commend the Conservation Force initiative in central and western Africa, and SCIF plans to continue our work in the Southern Africa (SADC) region to build a scientific basis for lion management.

Since inception, Safari Club International (SCI) has become a significant global organization. Our approximately 190 chapters provide us with a way to make and gather with friends, our Convention is a place to celebrate and enjoy our hunting heritage, and our Foundation is recognized as a world leader in wildlife conservation and education programs. SCI has provided nearly $300 million USD on hunter advocacy and wildlife conservation since inception. Since 2000, the SCIF has provided $47 million USD on conservation, wildlife education, and humanitarian programs around the world.

Sincerely,
Joseph H. Hosmer
Vice President, Safari Club International & Safari Club International Foundation
Chairman – SCI Foundation Conservation Committee

Vaughan, how could you post this. It appears that SCI is very involved in this problem.

quote:

SCI has provided nearly $300 million USD on hunter advocacy and wildlife conservation since inception. Since 2000, the SCIF has provided $47 million USD on conservation, wildlife education, and humanitarian programs around the world.

Very interesting indeed.

Dave

Would someone PLEASE give us a link to where all that money goes?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Would someone PLEASE give us a link to where all that money goes?

Saeed,

Why don't you write to SCI and ask them? I'm sure they have it all recorded, and I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem sharing that info.

Dave

Saeed,

I would think it would be of more interest to you to have detail knowledge of your countries financial situation.

I would like to know why foreign nationals cannot stay in your country and live off the governnment like here, you know the country that gave the world Pres Bush, long shall he live in comfort.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Saeed,

I would think it would be of more interest to you to have detail knowledge of your countries financial situation.

I would like to know why foreign nationals cannot stay in your country and live off the governnment like here, you know the country that gave the world Pres Bush, long shall he live in comfort.

I can guarantee you, if we have taken the money SCI takes from the African hunting community, we would be more than glad to tell you precisely what we do with it.

Why is SCI keeping it all secret?

What have they got to hide?

I know, they claim to have spent X amount "around the world".

Not good enough.

We are asking what they have spent in Africa.

Most of the money they get from their auctions is probably comes from African concerns.

So, cough up the facts. No need to be shy about all the great things SCI does.

We would all like to share in their pride. After all, they claim to represent all of us.

I second Saeed in wondering why on earth You feel obliged to fund SCI.

I was asked to join SCI and I refused. Here in France, SCI is almost non-existent.

For helping African hunting we count on lobbies which are fairly efficient. French speaking PHs are members of the A.C.P. (French speaking PH association) which include Europeans PHs mostly. This organisation (similar to IPHA or PHASA) is in first line to detect and gauge problems in Africa. When an action is needed the ACP clears the deck for action. And they call for taxidermists, agents, Air France, and especially prominent clients linked with high ranking politicians or heads of different countries like former President d’Estaing, president of senate, King of Spain, Marocco, Prince Philip, Presidents of African countries, ….King Abdallah perhaps. These people have plenty of cloud and don’t need to be founded.

For local action, an association is created and specific hunters are targeted. For example for the creation of an elephant reserve in the CAR, the Doli association asked me a contribution as I have hunted twice in the CAR and know the problem. These sorts of association for clearing troubles are headed by retired PHs.

But there is no sucking of money from every hunter in France or in Europe. Problems are solved without average Joe hunter knowing a trouble has occurred.

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
Saeed,

Why don't you write to SCI and ask them? I'm sure they have it all recorded, and I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem sharing that info.

Dave

I agree, Saeed you are a life member of SCI as you have stated, and between your hunting activities and sponsorship of this board I would say a person of some importance/influence within the hunting community. I should see no reason why they would not respond to you with the information and possibly put an end to all this bickering. Who knows, the facts may even come as a pleasant surprise, then again it may validate your argument completely. Never know without asking though.

I find it suprising that anyone should have to contact them for that kind of information. I understood they were a registered charity and would have thought that kind of information would or at least, should, be freely available in the public domain.

But apparently not.

Incidentally, my apologies to Vaughan for the way this thread has been hijacked. All this SCI stuff has been discussed repeatedly, nothing has changed and probably nothing will change..... wouldn't it be nice if we could get back to the Lion thing and maybe actually pull together and try to get something achieved.

There is NO charity or non-profit that has their detailed records available to the public on the net. Governments are of the people (well the US is) and you can't find detailed info about their finances. Steve it is like I ask you before "did you stop beating your wife", just a simple yes or no will sufice. I don't need a long and lenghty answer.

And like I replied to you, I don't understand that question at all. I've never raised my hand to a woman in my life!

The US charities might not have a requirement to publish their accounts but many countries including the UK do.

quote:

Since 2000, the SCIF has provided $47 million USD on conservation, wildlife education, and humanitarian programs around the world.

That all sounds very impressive, but in the same period of time I have spent $48M on "conservation, wildlife education, and humanitarian programs around the world".
Just don't ask me to prove it, or show you the records.... After all, I'm just a private citizen, nobody has the right to see my records.

On the other hand, If I expect people to take my claim seriously....

Good Hunting,

Bill

Steve I knew you weren't the sharpest pencil in the box, that is why I ask the question. There is no answer that is not condeming of the person answering the question. Now maybe you can understand that there is no answer to your question without YOU going directly to SCI. The information you are requesting is too extensive to be published in a document that one could pickup and carry and if it was loaded on a web site you would never wait long enough for it to down load. I understand you are a farmer (of sorts) and don't understand the requirements and volume of the records you are asking to see. If SCI would post we spent $540,000 on project X in Zambia, then you would say prove it!

Me not the sharpest pencil in the box....... damn, that's rich coming from you.

I think you need to seek professional psychiatric help bwana.

The bickering solves nothing and it pointless.

I am not an SCI defender. However DOJ is correct. No one would ever have that kind of detail posted on the web. Nor would audited financial statements show that kind of detail.

Having said that, it does seem the SCI should respond to inquiries from any member. Has any one actually asked? If they have inquired and got no response, that would be very bothersome to me.

Why can't they publish something like the link below which covers all charitable donations made by just one organisation since about 1981, consists of about 11 pages and only took a few seconds to download.

Here's the link: http://www.grandcharity.org/da...ing_1982__feb_09.pdf

Well Steve, I have been sharp enough to have afforded more than a few hunts in africa, put 2 kids thru college with out any help from the government, mtg paid in full and can still afford a hunt this fall (with the market decline) in Africa, but I will admit my parents provided me with a college education. I started my practice with $500 in the bank. Need psychiatric help - maybe, but I call a spade a spade. I don't pussy foot around because I don'r care if people like me or not. I don't believe life is a personality contest.

I clicked that link and it sure as hell didn't show me much 250,000 pounds to X Univ over 5 yrs. get a life that is not very informative.

How is it not informative? It states how much was given, when it was given and who it was given to......... what else is required?

If SCI could provide the same information either online or to it's defenders, these ridiculous debates wouldn't roll on and on.

Hell, I've even proved it can be done and given an example of how it can be done, all someone has to do is provide the SCI version. Until they can, I fail to see how they can win the debate.

-DOJ sticks up for SCI.

-Shakari disagrees with DOJ, agrees with Saeed and is against SCI so he posts some links to his website as usual.

-Saeed is against SCI wants proof where the money goes.

SAME SHIT DIFFERENT DAY.
Every other thread seem to turn into some stupid ass argument about where the money SCI gets is, and the content and meaning of the thread is ignored. Why dont you guys make a special thread where you can go back and fourth like a bunch of old nags about this SCI junk and quit filling other peoples threads full of the same old shit???? It's getting old.

Pauly,

Not against SCI, just don't agree with the donation system and have doubts about some claims of 'helping Africa'.

It wasn't my site I posted a link to, it was a site that publishes it's donations and I posted it to prove it's perfectly possible to to publish figures.

When I post links to my site, it's to give info that'll help people FOC, not to gain any benefit for myself. However, I'm sure you'll agree it's a helluva comprehensive and informative site though!

BTW, if you re-read the thread, you'll find it wasn't me that raised the subject of SCI. I even tried to get the thread back on track and commented on the hijack..........

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

Incidentally, my apologies to Vaughan for the way this thread has been hijacked. All this SCI stuff has been discussed repeatedly, nothing has changed and probably nothing will change..... wouldn't it be nice if we could get back to the Lion thing and maybe actually pull together and try to get something achieved.

Then you continued the argument after this. Heres an idea take your own comments and lead by example.




p.s. your site is very informative and comprehensive. Not trying to take anything away from that

You're right, I've already twice made an offer of a not inconsiderable sum of sponsorship but no-one has even taken the trouble to reply to me..........

Ah well, that's life.

I'm sure as hell not gonna start another thread on the same subject!