Hi Guys & Gals,

I have hunted Buffalo twice with a 404J and I used a 400gr.Swift A-Frame, SD of 319.

I am thinking of trying the 430gr.North Fork (SS), SD of 343.

These are both softs of course.

I do not use a scope, and this a dedicated Buffalo rifle only. I always take a scoped medium bore for PG.

If you could pick either one, Buffalo only, no scope, which one would you choose?

Thanks for your opinion.

Both are super bullets, and I've killed buffalo with both. If pressed, I'd go with the NF's-my last 2 dagga boys were both one shot kills with them.

While I am sure the Swift's are great bullet's and have and will continue to be used with great success, the NorthForks will not disappoint. For an open sighted big gun at close range an extra 30 grain's cant hurt anything. I am going to use the Nf's soft's and solid's on Buffalo this fall in my 416 Rem, haven't done any load development yet so I dont' know what weight.

I reread your original post and noticed you are quoting the sectional density of the two choices. I wouldn't be to concerned at any range with the NF's, they have a much lower Standard Deviation in velocity than any other bullet I have tried, maybe contributing the superior accuracy I have with them in the 375. Maybe my gun just liked them but they worked like a charm. They also have excellent weight retention on heavy game.

More than likely we overthink the great bullet selection available today. Most all of them if placed in the right spot will relieve the blood pressure on anything walking on earth. Load development and shooting new guns is part of the fun for me.

good luck and take care

Surefire,

It's just a toss up. I've used both bullets with great success. As Gale said since you're using open sights and therefore I expect your shots to be fairly close range the extra 30 grains can't hurt.

Mark

I am presently building up a guide gun in 404J for the use with open sights on Australian Water Buffalo and will have the sights regulated for the hard hitting 450grn Woodleighs.
So in your case,for an open sighted 404 for use generally within 90m I would go the Northforks .

430gr NF

I plan on using 400gr TSX's next year for buffalo in my 404J.

If for some reason the TSX's do not shoot, I was contemplating the 430gr NF or 450gr Woodleigh.

I plan on taking my 9.3x64 for back up and plains game.

Sounds like the heavier 430 gr. NF gets the nod.

Matches my thinking for a short distance, no scope rifle.

It has just about the same SD as a 458Lott 500 gr. bullet.

Seemed like a good idea, and you guys have just confirmed it.

Thanks for your opinions!

Go for the 430 NF for sure.
Saw one this weight used on buff from a .416 Rigby. A 400 grn TSX was also used from the same rifle on another buff. I recovered both bullets.
430 NF expanded to a final diameter of .837" while the TSX's final diameter was .625". This is a 30% difference. When one realizes that the size of the permanent wound channel is three times a bullet's final expanded diameter it should be obvious which is the better performing bullet. The bigger the hole through the heart and the lungs the more effective the shot - simple as that. Heavier for caliber bullets have more momentum and this compensates for the greater frontal surface area of the fully expanded bullet. For this reason penetration depth is similar - but with a bigger hole left behind by the 430. Bit of a no-brainer really.

I bet no buffalo will know the difference!

But, we like to nitpick and have fun.

Open sights? Toffs! I can't see past my nose, I have to have a scope.

Interesting reading though, thank you all!

Ive used both the Swift and the 400 gr. North forks, not the .430, but Im sure both will work fine on Buffalo..

I also am a avid fan of the 450 gr. Woodlieh RN or PP, both are outstanding Cape Buffalo bullets and I had the pleasure of field testing the 450 Woodleigh softs and solids for Geoff and testing the 400 gr. NO. Forks for the original owner before they were put on the market...I used the 400 gr. Swift on only two buffalo, but they worked perfectly, in fact they worked better on Buffalo than on PG..

Of the bullets you mentioned, have no fear they will work..As to solids, the North Fork flat nose or the GS custom FN, very similar bullets are great and I still like the Woodleigh RN solids as well. Never over look the wonderful North Fork Cup Points, they expand a bit, drive straight, penetrate like the devil and kill like a soft.

If I was regulated to one bullet for all hunting with the .404 it would be the cup point., it does it all, its basically an expanding solid..The cup expands just a tad, only enough to form an expanding bubble that displaces a lot of innards!

Good luck on your hunt..

I'm in the process of getting a 404 Jeffery and also looking at the most appropriate round.
I like the concept of the Woodleigh Hydro bullets and only carrying one type of round rather than softs and solids.
Has anyone had experience with these and/or any tips to pass on ?
I've been told they need to be driven a little faster than the old traditional loading for this calibre .
They will mainly be used on Buffalo but could be called upon for any situation.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed:
I bet no buffalo will know the difference. [QUOTE]

You're probably right Saeed. But if I get a little more penetration, why not, eh? A guys 'gotta pick one or the other. Can't shoot both with one pull of the trigger.

I've always wondered which bullet will penetrate more: a slightly lighter bullet with a little more velocity, or a slightly heavier bullet with a little less velocity? I think I prefer the latter.

But that is why I posed the question to the intelligentsia of the forum like yourself.

I apprecite everyone's opinions. Thank you everybody.