So many tourist- or why qualified Guides are needed

28 March 2007, 23:52

quote:
Originally posted by PWN375:
I second the nomination and move that the board approve the motion.

Perry

All in favor say "Aye!"

28 March 2007, 23:54

JudgeG

Aye!

28 March 2007, 23:58

Allout

Aye! Is that enough to approve the motion?

Brian

29 March 2007, 00:02

218 Bee

Aye, by all means, aye! Well and truly done, Jorge!

Mark

29 March 2007, 00:58

JPK

Record my AYE vote please.

JPK

29 March 2007, 01:02

465H&H

I vote "NO" but will change my vote if the result isn't unanimous!

465H&H

29 March 2007, 02:14

jorge

Thanks gentlemen for the kind words. Now it begs the question; Will the "object of my affection" understand it? My bet is he'll vote "aye" as well.

jorge

29 March 2007, 03:20

shootaway

jorge,I think you've been up in the clouds for too long.You keep dreaming! Who cares what YOU think,fly brain.

29 March 2007, 04:10

prof242

Uh, Jorge, I think you may have touched a nerve. My thought is "is that enough?" My vote is AYE.

29 March 2007, 04:22

jorge

quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
jorge,I think you've been up in the clouds for too long.You keep dreaming! Who cares what YOU think,fly brain.

ouch, boy you sure gave me "what fer!" jorge

29 March 2007, 04:42

shootaway

jorge,if you keep on taking your flintstone vitamins you will also be able to shoot straight and not be jelous.

29 March 2007, 05:11

jstevens

jelous

I thought you were an eighth-grader, but you don't spell well enough.

29 March 2007, 06:22

shootaway

oops,sorry Mr Spelling Bee.

29 March 2007, 07:49

500grains

shootaway,

This is the phenomena that jorge was trying to explain to you:

29 March 2007, 08:52

shootaway

I see,you guys must subscribe to the American Journal of Savage Medecine or the Scientific American comic book series.

29 March 2007, 11:02

shootaway

quote:
Originally posted by mrlexma:
As more info comes out, it seems as though Ganyana's initial thought may be right. The PH perhaps should have shot sooner but didn't.

The elephant was first seen from 60 yards out, then mock attacked with several bluff charges, then steadily closed in until he was 15 paces away.

This was not a case of the PH being caught entirely off guard.

If the bull was in musth, which is a fairly obvious condition, the PH had to have noticed that, too.

As for whether the elephant was wounded, I wonder how that info came to light?

In any case, there seems to have been plenty of reason for the PH to shoot.

One has to think that he probably would have if he hadn't been worried about the effect on his employer's business of having to kill an elephant to save his guests, the inevitable backlash from enviro-eco-idiots, the effect on the PH's ability to get a job as a "tour guide" given his obvious bloodthirstiness, the certain to occur governmental grilling and second-guessing and the yards of red tape.

My point exactly.I guess he probably didn't bother with a scope or did not maintain his rifle and shooting skills.I suggest that the entire shooting community review their PH certification process.This issue should be looked as in the same way as a plane crash.

29 March 2007, 12:05

NitroX

quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
My point exactly.I guess he probably didn't bother with a scope or did not maintain his rifle and shooting skills.I suggest that the entire shooting community review their PH certification process.This issue should be looked as in the same way as a plane crash.

Getting pretty close to slander without any evidence on a PH whom seemingly had a very good reputation.

***

As for the motion, AYE for me too, but only for the month. I expect plenty more nominated posts from the same source.

PS Shootaway, if you are just a kid, please tell us, as no doubt you would then get more leeway from members here.

29 March 2007, 12:39

surestrike

One more in AYE column.

29 March 2007, 16:24

surestrike

quote:
My point exactly.I guess he probably didn't bother with a scope or did not maintain his rifle and shooting skills.I suggest that the entire shooting community review their PH certification process.This issue should be looked as in the same way as a plane crash.

Shootaway,

How would a scope have helped in a close range elephant charge situation?

Have you ever tried to make a frontal brain shot on a charging elephant?

I think that you may be confused on the whole accident investigation thing. When the term jumbo is used in aviation it refers to a jet that seats more than 250 passengers.

That kind of jumbo has CVR's (cockpit voice recorders) FDR's (flight data recorders) ATC recordings radar traces, crushable structures, maintenance history, AD's, SB's ETC. The pilots that fly them do so under strict SOP's and use CRM and are highly trained and must complete a PT a PC and AME every 6 months.

An African jumbo doesn't have any of that stuff making an aviation style accident investigation kind of tough.

Of course maybe the Canadian Board of Hunter Accident Investigation (CBHAI) will get their act together in light of this tragedy a start requiring all jumbos not just the jets to be GPWS, TCAS, RVSM, CVR, FDR & MNPS equipped by the end of the year.

I think you are just the guy to push it through parliament. Good luck and godspeed.

29 March 2007, 16:34

Ganyana

Aye

Having gone to the effort of explaining, and then having everything either ignored or twisted he gets a nomination along with our dear Bob for the ZOT of the month award as well (ZOT = Zimbabwe Oxygen Thief)

29 March 2007, 18:50

jorge

quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
I see,you guys must subscribe to the American Journal of Savage Medecine or the Scientific American comic book series.

No, we don't but you obviously haven't figured out the "spell check" option, let alone conceptualize cogent thought.

Not even osmosis can help you absorb knowledge. How many times has the fact that a scope is not a wise idea when shooting elephant up close been posted here by those in the know and with significant elephant hunting experience?

Please heed my advice of a few days ago and auto-castrate. The world has enough microcephalics. jorge

30 March 2007, 11:05

jbderunz

Aye

This Jorge is in an unique category of his own.

30 March 2007, 19:31

Steve Malinverni

Aye,
and I'm with jorge

30 March 2007, 22:15

bearhunter762

all in favour? approved.

30 March 2007, 23:13

ChrisTroskie

Aye indeed

31 March 2007, 00:00

Mikelravy

These incidents are somewhat predictable given the dire and unpredictable response from the authorities for shooting an animal. No doubt many on this board have heard about phs losing their licenses after being second guessed by someone in authority.

02 April 2007, 09:14

shootaway

Mike,better have balls and confront the situation than be stomped on.Forget about this political correctness when you are being charged by a mean-joe-green.If you did your shooting homework you would plant both legs flat on the ground open and at one o'clock with respect to the charging ele.The left upper arm should should fall flat on your chest so that it provides a rest for the rifles forearm.The safety should alway be off and never be used in ones lifetime.The scope should automatically align with the target as you have conditioned this to happen.Croosshairs will be between the eyes and trigger pressure is nearly complete then boom,surprise the ele drops and its over.

02 April 2007, 09:49

RIP

The "ayes" have it.

02 April 2007, 09:49

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
shootaway,

This is the phenomena that jorge was trying to explain to you:

02 April 2007, 09:51

Jim Manion

Shootaway

You have been given more slack than just about anyone here. It is because people know you're just a kid, and they would rather encourage you than discourage you from participating.

But you have crossed the line once too often. It is one thing to post your fantasies of your big game experience here. Yes I am sure you shot a tiger - one from your stuffed animal collection with your Red Ryder BB gun. Set 'em up and knock 'em down.

But it is an entirely different matter to attack those who have experienced big game hunting live and in person with such ridiculous claims. It is obvious to anyone that you are well out of your depth of knowledge, even in the shallow end of the experience pool.

I do not know of one PH in Africa who uses a scope for close encounters with dangerous game. A scope is great but not at close range. Your sight picture will be one mass of grey, black or fawn color. And it will take you LONGER to acquire your target area than with iron sights.

With statements like this:

quote:
The safety should alway be off and never be used in ones lifetime.

You have crossed the line of safe hunting. And safe shooting. That kind of thinking demonstrates an unconscionable degree of recklessness.

If you want to learn, read and listen. Ask questions. All your posts do is to certify to the world that you do not have a clue as to what you are talking about. The moronic attacks are more than a little old.

02 April 2007, 10:15

shootaway

Jim Manion,if you want to stay alive then listen to what I have to say. Why in the world would anyone plan on a close encounter to the point of not having a scope on his rifle. A close encounter is not something to look forward to or is it a safe style of hunting. I would never put myself within 50yds of any wild dangerous game. I will do all my shooting beyond this zone and therefore find a scope a life saving tool in that it will allow for a well placed shot the first time.If he charges from 75 yds then I will stand firm and shoot with my scope while he gains distance.If for some reason you have your safety on while you are being charged you will be a goner.I think there should be a law passed in africa to ban the use of a safety while African hunting.This is not to say that I am not a safety concerned hunter.I also feel that anyone who has a habit of pointing a rifle at another,loaded or not, should not be allowed to own a rifle or should retake his firearms course at 1000 times the cost.

02 April 2007, 10:44

shootaway

Will,next time I break open my piggy bank I think I might buy your book.It's been a long time since I read a book and there has just got to be something interesting in yours.I think I'll do a search through the AR pages and see if I can come up with a review.Right now I'am waiting for a AR cap I ordered.

02 April 2007, 10:49

JPK

1st. Dangerous game isn't dangerous at 50 yds. The thrill of the approach is what makes DG worth hunting. If you prefer to pot shoot your DG at distance, and some do, just remember that you are depriving yourself of most of the hunt. This is especially so with elephants.

2nd. A good portion of the time you won't even see the animal through the brush at 50yds.

3rd. Your safety should remain on until you shoulder your rifle and it should be a natural and unthinking act to disengage the safety while you mount your rifle. If it isn't, you haven't done enough shooting.

The thing about a safety is that you will never know how many times it has saved you or a companion. Ideally, none, but you can never be sure that is the case.

4th. What Jim Manion says regarding a scope at close range is true. Two here have tried it and found it a mistake. Others may prefer or even need a scope due to failing eyesight. But a scope at close range, especially on elephants, where your peripheral vision may save your butt, is a third best choice ofter an apperature or express sight. IIRC, Zimbabwe records reveal that it is generally not the elephant being hunted that kills, but another unseen elephant.

JPK

02 April 2007, 10:59

ChrisTroskie

Mon PÃ¨re m'a enseignÃ© : "restez plutÃ´t silencieux et Ãªtre pensÃ© comme ... idiot qu'ouvert votre bouche ... et enlever tout le doute...

02 April 2007, 11:03

shootaway

JPK,I will not hunt the homebred DG game many people choose to hunt.You know,the type you can get really close to without fearing.Try getting to within 15yds of that lion that greeted those tourists on that protected safari vehicule and then come tell me about depriving oneself.That guy charged the truck from a couple of hundred yards out and left his marks engraved all over the steal of the trucks body.

02 April 2007, 11:27

shootaway

Chris,votre pere avez raison!

02 April 2007, 11:32

RIP

quote:
Originally posted by ChrisTroskie:
Mon PÃ¨re m'a enseignÃ© : "restez plutÃ´t silencieux et Ãªtre pensÃ© comme ... idiot qu'ouvert votre bouche ... et enlever tout le doute...

You'd think shootaway would understand French. English is not his primary language or he is even younger than we think. What is he doing up so late, or early? What would mommy think if she caught him playing on the 'puter at such an hour in Montreal?.

Or is this a troll?

Scott is that you?

This has been unreal for way too long.

You'd think in over 4 years, shootaway could learn something.

02 April 2007, 11:37

NitroX

RIP

Are we "permitted" to question trolls on AR again, or is it still a "banning offence" to question whether someone is a troll?

02 April 2007, 11:39

JPK

Shootaway,

You are again proving Chris Troskie's point.

I have been within 30 yards of lion, on foot.

In the bush, you must have the grace of a D9.

If you are so fightened that you loose your (limited) ability to reason, better not hunt dangerous game.

Et vous avez un grand raison de ne parlez pas.

JPK

02 April 2007, 11:41

shootaway

RIP and NitroX,who cares what YOU think! NitroX,have you ever shot that double in your picture or is it just for looks?