I have been having a hard time recently trusting outfitters and booking agents any of you have the same type of feeling once you got burnt the first time.

Boy, have you ever picked a duzie of a subject!

If you hunt long enough you will have issues with your outfitter, your agent, or both. There are many, many reasons for this from bad conditions outside their control to "overselling." One can only do so much due diligence and things can change so fast in Africa one season to another you can have issues. Therefore, it is going to happen. Can you afford it??

If the outfitter and agent are first tier, they are going to do all they can to make you happy. They want happy customers. Having said that, there is nothing they can do to give you back the time and the expense of travel. Everything after that is negotiation, and you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Even though it may be expensive to you, for real bargain hunts, there isn't the profit necessary to absorb a really bad hunt.

There was a thread here about a successful hunt, and some of the comments there would be appropriate to review. What the outfitter agrees to provide is an opportunity to shoot specified species for a client who is assumed to be a reasonable shot and reasonably capable of getting themselves around. Are you fully prepared for the hunt: physically fit, at one with your rifle, and your boots and gear broken in? Do you know what you want and have your priorities straight and clearly communicated to your ph?

A common misconception is that one can take multiple animals while on certain hunts, i.e., elephant and cat hunts. While it is done, the ph and hunter must concentrate on the primary task at hand. If it is cats, the need for baits will provide some opportunity for taking other animals, but the focus is going to be on cats. It is worse with elephants because you don't need baits!

The hunter must consider whether he can afford this kind of hunting and those limitations. If he cannot, he should put off elephant and lion until he can afford the prospect of not getting a lesser kudu or Grants, as well as not getting a lion or elephant.

The alternative to not trusting again, is not going and that doesn't get you very far. I have had incredibly successful trips that were disappointing until I reflected on our success and realized that my expectations were out of line.

Would you really enjoy a hunt in which you "hunted" three animals a day and were successful? Such a hunt would devolve into a shooting trip and it would not be very rewarding.

It is the "hunting" that makes the success memorable, and the harder the hunting, the more memorable. Sometimes, it is so hard, you don't succeed. Was it a good hunt? Were there signs and was the game afoot? Did you work hard and miss because of fickle wind? Did you enjoy the fire and the wee dram at the end of the day? If so, you had a good hunt, and got your money's worth even if you did not get your animal. It will make it all the sweeter when you do connect. Kudude

Well said Kudude!!!

Book directly with the PH and eliminate one possible source of problems.

But make sure you know who the PH is operating through! In Zim, the operator is responsible for getting your trophies out, not the PH.

quote:

Originally posted by TJ:
Book directly with the PH and eliminate one possible source of problems.

True.

But if you use an agent, try to correspond or speak to the outfitter and PH as well.

The message doesn't always get through
ie client -> agent -> outfitter -> PH
and back the other way too.

Yeah, so don't use Cabelas Outdoor Adventures. Never. Never. Never.

My 1st trip to Zimbabwe for leoaprd and plains game was a minor disaster. The booking agent assured me, and it was in the contract, that I would hunt with the ranch owner who was a PH and had an outstanding record on leopard and his property seemed, per recent references, to be over-run with large kudu.

When I got there he was off with a different group of clients that had booked at the last minute and I got a PH who, as it turned out, picked up odd hunts here and there. I wasn't a happy camper but wasn't much I could do except do the hunt or go back to the airport and fly home so I decided to make the best of it.

The 1st day he wanted me to take a shot that was at least 500 yards up-hill at a large kudu which I declined. I shot a couple of impala and we hung baits (didn't do any drags of entrails just hung them on a limb) and in 4 days we had no hits so he decided we should go to another property near Vic Falls to hunt sable and leopard ---- a lost day for travel.
We were there about a week --- no leopards on bait, we saw a small herd of sable with nothing but cows and young bulls. We saw several small kudu and I did manage to shoot a modest watebuck. During the week we lost most of one day as he got the vehicle stuck 3 times crossing and recrossing the same stream bed. We also lost most of a day while the staff tried to hack a "road" to another part of the property -- so two more days lost.

About half way home that night we ran out of gas (fuel leak) and we spent the night along side the road from Vic Falls to Bulawayo and then all of the next day getting a ride into town and getting his vehicle fixed. We make it back to the ranch and again try our luck on kudu and leopard actually sitting in the blind most of the night hoping a leopard would hit it...none had been hit so far but we did see tracks.

I did manage to shoot a respectable eland and a couple of nice impala to go with the waterbuck. When I mentioned the lack of decent size kudu one of the trackers told me that the group before me (4 hunters from Spain) had taken 8 kudu of which the smallest was 54" and two were right at 60".

On the 12 or 13th day of my hunt the owner finally showed up with the other clients and his basic attitude was "sorry about that but I couldn't turn down a big booking" and if I liked I could hunt 2 extra days "free". He continued to guide the other group while me and the pick-up PH continued to strike out.

The pick-up PH was lazy and it was a chore to get him out of camp in the afternoon. He had a small hand-drawn map to get him around the property (first time he hunted the property) and i think he was actually afraid to hunt leopards.

When I got home I complained to the Booking Agent and bascially all I got was "that's suprising as everyone loves him" and they did say if I wanted to book with him the next year they would waive theri fee --- no way.

After that trip it was hard to trust a Booking Agent. I talked to quite a few and the one who impressed me the most was Adam Clements (Safari Trackr's) who was just getting started --- I decided to take a chance and it was literally the trip of a life time.....took leopard, buffalo, kudu, sable, impala, warthog, a couple of baboons and had a great time in a beautiful camp with a hard working young PH.

The only suprise I had was it was 150% better than he told me and 200% better than I expected.
If Adam told me it was raining soup I'd go outside with a bowl and spoon.

DB Bill:

I'm glad to hear you say that about Adam and the boys. I am looking closely about booking with them for Zim or Zambia in '08. Mark Young has been very responsive to my inquiries.

Like anything in life, there are the good, the bad and the ugly. Just be sure to do the research and go with your gut....it's not often that it's wrong.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer

Not about Africa but Atcheson's booked me in Alaska on a boat based brown bear hunt this past spring with a fat lazy slob who didn't want to get off the boat to go hunt, threw the ships garbage overboard, and as it turns out, hunted us illegally a couple of days in an area that wasn't his to hunt. I got the same story as DB Bill on his bad hunt but I won't hunt with that guide again or book thru Atcheson's either.

quote:

Originally posted by DB Bill:
My 1st trip to Zimbabwe for leoaprd and plains game was a minor disaster. The booking agent assured me, and it was in the contract, that I would hunt with the ranch owner who was a PH and had an outstanding record on leopard and his property seemed, per recent references, to be over-run with large kudu.

When I got there he was off with a different group of clients that had booked at the last minute and I got a PH who, as it turned out, picked up odd hunts here and there. I wasn't a happy camper but wasn't much I could do except do the hunt or go back to the airport and fly home so I decided to make the best of it.
....

When I got home I complained to the Booking Agent and bascially all I got was "that's suprising as everyone loves him" and they did say if I wanted to book with him the next year they would waive theri fee --- no way.

Bill

It would be nice if you named the agent, outfitter and PH so we all learn and prosper as well from your unfortunate experience.

Posting just the good guys as you did helps the lesser ones from having to "modify" if they want to stay in business.

NitroX --- we may have spoken about him in the past as I know he handles a lot of Australian and New Zealander clients.

I contracted for a 14-day leopard, sable & plainsgame hunt and the PH was supposed to be Charlie Stanton owner of Mbalabala Safaris.

The name of the "pick-up" PH was Pat Hales. I don't remember the name of the booking agency (can't find my notes) and I think they are out of business. When I find my notes I'll post the name.

I should re-state that every single reference I checked (and I checked more than a dozen) had nothing but glowing comments about both Charlie and his son who was a learner PH and maybe if I would have hunted with Charlie I would also have had glowing comments to make.

My problems were (1) I contracted to hunt with Charlie because of his rep with leopards and he basically dumped me on someone he picked up at the last moment who didn't have a clue how to hunt the properties we used, (2) the PH expected me to take long-range shots rather than stalk closer, (3) Hales wanted to hunt from the vehicle and was miffed when I refused to shoot from the vehicle, (5) I had trouble getting him out of camp in the afternoon and then all we did was blast around the roads, (6) Stanton over-shot his ranch. Allowing the hunter's before me to take 2 large kudu each was unbelievable, and (7) taking his group of European hunters to another concession to hunt was, upon reflection, a pretty clear indication he didn't expect much sucess on his home grounds....and losing days we should have been hunting to unexpected travel and equipment break-down and poor judgement by the PH was just icing on the cake.

The only thing I can add is be specific about your expectations for the hunt at a detailed level. Verify your expectations with the broker,outfitter,PH and references. Also, ask what happens if those expectations aren't met. The response to that dialogue should tell you alot about the deal.

IMO, references are almost useless. Only the ones who will give a positive outlook will be given.

quote:

Originally posted by DennisHP:
Not about Africa but Atcheson's booked me in Alaska on a boat based brown bear hunt this past spring with a fat lazy slob who didn't want to get off the boat to go hunt, threw the ships garbage overboard, and as it turns out, hunted us illegally a couple of days in an area that wasn't his to hunt. I got the same story as DB Bill on his bad hunt but I won't hunt with that guide again or book thru Atcheson's either.

Did the Atcheson's do anything to compensate you or provide something else? (I assume these are the Atcheson's in Montana and not Ray Atkinson - correct?)

Go to SCI and meet everyone firsthand. If you book with a quality safari company, a booking agent is not needed and can result in miscommunications as others have pointed out. If you use a booking agent, use a small one with an unblemished reputation. A small one can spend the time to make sure that your needs are addressd, while the larger ones process clients like cattle.

quote:

Originally posted by DB Bill:
NitroX --- we may have spoken about him in the past as I know he handles a lot of Australian and New Zealander clients.

Thanks Bill. Sorry I forgot all about it.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by DennisHP:
Not about Africa but Atcheson's booked me in Alaska on a boat based brown bear hunt this past spring with a fat lazy slob who didn't want to get off the boat to go hunt, threw the ships garbage overboard, and as it turns out, hunted us illegally a couple of days in an area that wasn't his to hunt. I got the same story as DB Bill on his bad hunt but I won't hunt with that guide again or book thru Atcheson's either.

Did the Atcheson's do anything to compensate you or provide something else? (I assume these are the Atcheson's in Montana and not Ray Atkinson - correct?)

Yes, it's the Atcheson's of Montana. Keith Atcheson would not speak to me direct because I started a thread here in the Alaska forum. He implied that what I posted could possibly be used against me if my complaint went to court. They did put me on a list to receive offers of cancelled hunts and I did receive several such offers.

Book direct and go on reccomendations you get on this site you will be better off. STAY AWAY FROM CABELLAS!!

Dennis,

I am sorry to hear that the agent would not even talk to you about it. Repeatedly I am amazed that some agents choose to slam the door in a client's face and tell the client to go stuff it. Now I have seen it 3 times here on AR. Sad stuff.