See CMS is promoting the hunting of hard bossed buffalo and I applaud this decision.

However what is the definition of hard bossed?

Or indeed is hard boss that important for your first buffalo hunting experience?

This is a Buffalo we took a few days ago and the hunter turned down some very wide spread 'soft' buffalo for this fine old fellow.

Andrew please excuse my ignorance...
But what is the difference between a HARD boss and SOFT boss bull?...Does it have to do with age only or how thick the boss?

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
Andrew please excuse my ignorance...
But what is the difference between a HARD boss and SOFT boss bull?...Does it have to do with age only or how thick the boss?

It has to do with age. Soft is when the taxidermist has to fill the boss with cement as it has boiled away. However I believe that many 'soft bossed' animals are of age and representative of the specie.

Try and apply the theory to Impala.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
Andrew please excuse my ignorance...
But what is the difference between a HARD boss and SOFT boss bull?...Does it have to do with age only or how thick the boss?

It has to do with age. Soft is when the taxidermist has to fill the boss with cement as it has boiled away. However I believe that many 'soft bossed' animals are of age and representative of the specie.

Try and apply the theory to Impala.

Thanks

A bull can be mature but still has some hair or a slightly soft boss.

I have shot so many buffalo, ranging in size from a 49 inches with broken horns, to several in 44-45 range.

On the past few hunts, I have purposely passed on bulls with a wider spread and have taken smaller, mature ones instead.

I leave the larger bulls for those who want a trophy, as I normally just take the skin now.

I do the same with other animals too.

Hair between the horns is not good.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
However I believe that many 'soft bossed' animals are of age and representative of the specie.

Agree. I think its the matter of genes how wide and how thick is boss.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I leave the larger bulls for those who want a trophy, as I normally just take the skin now.

I also took full skins of buffs. Can you give some ideas what to do with buffalo skins?

Andrew,

My personal feeling on this when I am hunting is the older the better, I have shot a bunch of Buffalo and have not personally broken the 40” mark.

I have turned down buffalo of over 45” that were soft and not fully mature for what I have wanted to harvest, and all of these being in free range reserves not High fence farmed buffalo,

With the Buffalo breeders in South Africa growing at the pace they are, many cheap soft top buffalo are pumped into the market for clients to hunt,

you see this creating a market for the outfitters who have a client who can’t spend 10k on a buffalo but is willing to spend 5k to just shoot a buffalo.

If you read any of the hunting magazines you are shocked at the amount of young buffalo that are shown in the trophy galleries

The next place is Zimbabwe where you do see many trophy photos of buffalo that are not even close to being of age to hunt, I do not know if it’s a situation of an area being hit to hard or just a PH letting his client shoot the first bull they find.

I would rather hunt an old Buffalo Cow out of a wild herd for a few thousand dollars that shoot a young soft bull,

JK

quote:

Originally posted by jkhunter:


The next place is Zimbabwe where you do see many trophy photos of buffalo that are not even close to being of age to hunt, I do not know if it’s a situation of an area being hit to hard or just a PH letting his client shoot the first bull they find.



JK

Probably has a lot to do with all the South African 'PHs' we've had 'hunting' in Zimbabwe in recent times.

quote:

Probably has a lot to do with all the South African 'PHs' we've had 'hunting' in Zimbabwe in recent times.

Touche'

I was a little confused on this my self. You see some buffalo that the boss has completely grown together. Others have a big gap in between but are obviously very old bulls.
My PH asked me what type of buffalo I was looking for. I told him I wanted to hunt Dagga boys. The older the better. His reply was a big grin!!

Jkhunter,
Id like to know your experience with two features. Worn (not broken) down tips and white faced. Are these 2 positive indicators of an old bull?

I've shot a couple bulls that had a gap that had not filled in but they where not young animals as far as I could make out.
They just seem to grow different horn shapes but young soft bulls certainly do stand out.

Hi David

I am sure to a degree you are correct, but it’s not limited to them. I have seen enough soft boss buffalo in Zimbo Trophy galaxies, and even on this forum.

JK

quote:

Originally posted by jkhunter:
Hi David

I am sure to a degree you are correct, but it’s not limited to them. I have seen enough soft boss buffalo in Zimbo Trophy galaxies, and even on this forum.

JK

Hi JK,

No doubt you have - we have some really shoddy 'outfitters/PHs' running around these days. The only reason I bothered responding to your comment is because it is a generalization. Be assured that if I posted the buffalo trophy galleries of Zim operators of my choice, everyone would have plenty of hard bossed buffalo to look at. I could also generalize and say, for example, that all hunting in SA is on little game farms, couldn't I? But I wouldn't, because I know you could prove me wrong, by posting photos of trophies taken in one of the few SA areas that are not little game farms...

Let's get specific shall we? Have you looked at any buffalo trophies taken this year, last year, the year before that, or any time at all by any of these operators: CMS, Zambezi Hunters, Roger Whittall Safaris, Mokore Safaris, Save Safaris, Bvekenya Safaris, Watson/Walker, Shangaan Hunters...the list goes on. Maybe you should have done that before taking a general dig at Zim operators/PH's? We have enough real problems to deal with, and quite honestly don't appreciate misinformation being bandied about. Maybe stick to opining about what you know, south of the Limpopo?

Cheers, David

It is typically the excrement from a farm animal.

That bull had a big heavy boss which to me is more important than a really wide spread and a small boss which quite often the wide spreaders have.

Dave seems I hit a nerve with you, no need to get your panties in a knot,

Read my post, I did not generalise, and I see many soft boss buffalo out of Zimbabwe and South Africa,

As for generalising your comment on SA hunters in Zim is just as bad, I have hunted with some Zim Ph’s and have turned down buffalo they would have shot.

And as for your South of the Limpopo comment, I hunt more North - East and West of the Limpopo than most of you Zimboes so don’t try tell me where to get my info from,

o and last thing Dave, you should have checked some of those names you put down as well, as there are some absolutly magnifacent buffalo on there trophy gallaries but also some i would never even consider to pull the trigger on because of age nothing else,

You didn't hit a nerve at all - don't give yourself too much credit. I spend a fair amount of time (too much) dealing with greenies online and they also generalize so am used to it.

If you think this is not a generalization, then you need to research the meaning of the word.

'The next place is Zimbabwe where you do see many trophy photos of buffalo that are not even close to being of age to hunt'

You are right, I am also guilty of generalizing re the SA hunters in Zim, at least I admit it. However, if you can find me an SA PH hunting in Zim who has not engaged in skullduggery, I will give you a lollipop. Okay, you personally haven't, I'll take your word - one lollipop coming your way.

I don't care if you hunt on the moon, when you pop up on a public forum and make a sweeping, negative statement about the standard of trophies taken by Africa's finest PH's, many of whom I have worked with, don't expect me to buckle my beak.

I don't need to 'check' any of the names I mentioned, I stand by them all, but thanks for the advice pops.

These are mature: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/9881042391

I want a real ugly old sod with scars and character. Just one buffalo that I can call mine - Euro mount

I believe a Buffalo becomes sexually mature at the age of only 6, becoming of age to bread doesn't mean the buffalo is trophy mature. Harry Selby said it best " I don't think there's anything less attractive than shooting a soft bossed bull no matter how wide the spread''.

Having a taxidermist add cement to fill in the boss seems to me silly? After all, doctoring up a trophy to look good might mean the trophy really isn't.....

Great bull Andrew, proper.

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:
Great bull Andrew, proper.

As you know mate it is not all about the size of the ship but more about the motion of the Ocean.

You chaps promoted age before beauty, the quality of the safari, and nowadays I only advertise the hunting of aged bulls.

Even my wife tells me that a couple of inches does not matter.

Really good buff I took last year.

Andrew.. That is a really good Buffalo!

Yep, a pretty good head and of the kind whose hooks are the worst for whoever is on the receiving end!

This one was mature I think..

I've never shot a buff over 40". And I've never shot a soft bull either. I have to admit that
I'd really like to just once have the opportunity on a big, wide, deep, mature bull in the mid 40's or better.

Who wouldn't?

Great daggaboy Surestrike.

Excellent buffalo, Andrew!