quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I don't think your price structure is realistic but if you can make it happen I think there will be some amount of market. I've been a booking agent in the past and have definitely run into hunters desiring to hunt African game but under no circumstances are they adventurous enough to leave their comfort zone and get on a plane to the "Dark Continent". Those folks would probably be your target market, but something makes me think those folks will not be able to pay the prices necessary to sustain such an enterprise.

Good luck to you however.

Basically, someone would have to buy the property as a long-term investment.....as well as purchase the initial seed-stock with the same idea.

No one could actually buy a piece of land and turn a profit on this type of operation (which is true of any hunting ranch in the state nowadays).....it would really only have to be for entertainment purposes (like having a multi-million dollar yacht).

quote:

Originally posted by Scottyboy:
Ah shucks, Wade, you convinced me.. sign me up. I'll take lesser kudu, gerenuk, bongo, roan and Angolan sable. Any chance to add polar bear and maybe a Sulaimen markhor and Altai argali to the mix?

I'll go ahead and pay with good ol AR traveler's checks. I'm good for it.

SOUNDS GREAT!! Meet me at the local space-port....I'll be charging up the rocket ship.....we're huntin' them critters on MARS BABY!!

Beam me up "Scottyboy"....

I don't have a problem with the fence. I hunted in RSA with the fence and had a good time.
10,000 acres is 15.6 square miles, 3X5 miles. In parts of Texas that is small. I have been on a fenced ranch in TX that had deer (not hunting, just for the ride and the guide was taking pictures for his website) and they were as wild as deer anywhere. If they are not fed and the only time they see people and trucks is when some one is shooting at them they will be on alert.
I understand #7; if you can get it priced like that I will try and be there.

I have heard there was some ranch in TX that does have Cape Buffalo. No facts just voices on the wind.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I voted yes simply for species like addax and scimitar, Asian species like blackbuck, nilgai, etc that are not available in their native range.

I would not hunt species like kudu, zebra, wildebeest, impala, warthog, ect, etc, etc in Texas.

I agree mostly with AspinHill! That is the other condition that should have been in the poll for vote! Animals that are available no where in their natural range!

I disagree with the not hunting the other animals that she mentioned! I would hunt them as well, but only in culling to reduce over population for the habatat, for meat and hides not for trophy quality animals.! I have participated in herd reduction of over populated Eland on a couple of ranches for the meat, and hides! I see absolutely nothing wrong in that practice as long as all the other restrictions are heeded.

Others may do as it suits!

I would love to hunt/ visit Texas. Part of the enjoyment of travel for me is the experience of meeting and listening to the conversations of the "Locals," whether its North Dakota, Africa, or Texas. I enjoy learning about the native flora and fauna and their relation to each other.

I voted No because I'd pay to have the African hunting experience in Africa with Africans. I would not be interested in hunting in Africa with a Texan or hunting african game in Texas. In kind, I'd not pay to hunt Texas game in Africa.

Given the fact that the USG won't let us import any meat from a hunt in Africa, I think if the prices got down to "comparable" with RSA hunting, I might do some just to give my family members some of the meat. No one believes me here when I say Eland is better than any beef, or elk for that matter.

Really to me, if the price is comparable, I will hunt the game in Africa as far as trophy hunting. It would have to be substantially cheaper for me to consider hunting non native species on a trophy basis. Obviously, that means things like Scimitar horned Oryx would be considered here, but Springbok? Naw.

I would love to hunt Oryx in the New Mexico desert. So also ibex.

ES,

Have you hunted in Africa? "Africa" is the hunt. As some have stated above, it is the total experience that makes it.

Bob

I voted yes and good luck if you choose to take on this venture. Every hunt is what you make of it based on the conditions and standards presented as well as your own personal standards.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
I would love to hunt/ visit Texas. Part of the enjoyment of travel for me is the experience of meeting and listening to the conversations of the "Locals," whether its North Dakota, Africa, or Texas. I enjoy learning about the native flora and fauna and their relation to each other.

I voted No because I'd pay to have the African hunting experience in Africa with Africans. I would not be interested in hunting in Africa with a Texan or hunting african game in Texas. In kind, I'd not pay to hunt Texas game in Africa.

Perfect. Come on down to Texas. We hunt pronghorn, whitetail and mule deer in the fall. Turkeys in the spring. Then we FLY TO AFRICA to hunt zebras, gemsbok, kudu, etc. over the summer.

No for me. But I don't sleep with blow up dolls either.

Just sayin...

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bob in TX:
ES,

Have you hunted in Africa? "Africa" is the hunt. As some have stated above, it is the total experience that makes it.

Bob

That would be a negative. He has posted several times that he has never hunted outside TX.

quote:

Originally posted by Flags:

quote:

Originally posted by Bob in TX:
ES,

Have you hunted in Africa? "Africa" is the hunt. As some have stated above, it is the total experience that makes it.

Bob

That would be a negative. He has posted several times that he has never hunted outside TX.

Flags is correct, I have not hunted in Africa (although I plan to very soon). The vast majority of my hunting has been here in Texas....but I have hunted a little bit in Louisiana (waterfowl and predators).

I have said this several times already, but I will say it again....this was not meant to sound like a "substitute" for hunting in Africa. It would be a hunting opportunity IN ADDITION to hunting Africa.

On a small 10 000 acre area my vote it no. I do not consider this tobe a large area at all. I'm not a fan of any fenced hunts. I watch enough of that kind of stuff on t.v with the feeders and minerals and introduced gene pools. It is not for me.

Although I am not a fan I do see a need for it in places like the U.S in some areas. There is not enough public land around and I think it would appeal to a lot of people if the price was right.

I voted no. The primary reason is the stipulation that the cost would rival the cost of hunting the same species in Africa. If I have to pay enough to go to Africa, I'm going to go Africa.

I enjoy a fair chase hunt, no matter what the specie is. I voted yes. I like to hunt, I like to hunt these animals. I have taken them in Africa, so it is not like I am trying to add them to my trophy room without "having" to go to Africa.

It does not replace Africa, and it is by no means a substitute for hunting in Africa. But I have no problem hunting exotic species here.

Nothing can replace Africa. Nothing can replace that experience. The smells, the sounds, the bush. You can not recreate that here no matter how hard you try.

I voted yes, but with some qualifiers.

Price = I can't see paying as much for an animal that I can drive 2 to 4 hours or so, and if I am not picky, shoot that same day or at most spend 2 days killing, that I might not even get a chance at during a 7 day hunt. As others have stated it is the TOTAL experience.

No matter how much parts of Texas are similar to Africa, it still is not Africa.

I wish you luck in your experiment.

Wade

As you know I've hunted all over and fun is fun no matter where you hunt. On any hunt you get out what you put into it

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Price = I can't see paying as much for an animal that I can drive 2 to 4 hours or so

I place a pretty high value on game meat, so the fact that you could bring home the meat from one of these hunts would really add to the value(for me).

But I still can't see doing one of these Texas exotic hunts as a "trophy hunt".

I being a poor man am interested in Grants,Roberts and Thompsand Gazelles.
Anywhere but Tanzania

I voted no because of the animals you have listed.

If you would have listed animals that cannot be hunter in Africa anymore I would have voted yes under the right circumstances.

That being said, there is no where in Texas that will compare to Africa on any level.

Well as of right now 120 people have voted....40% "yes" and 60% "no". It's actually more "yes" than I expected.

Thanks for participating guys....

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Wade,

The total "Experience" involved in hunting the above mentioned animals is equally as important to me as shooting the animals. That experience cannot be offered in TX regardless of how many condition you place on the hunt. I voted emphatically NO!

Mark

Mark,

I absolutely agree with you 100%....

This was not meant to sound like it would be a substitute for going to Africa. Not at all....

I just wanted to see what peoples' opinions were regarding the idea as a valid hunting opportunity.

There's no reason someone couldn't hunt a Kudu in Africa one year, and this place the next year. They would be two separate experiences, both unique in their own way.

there is nothing unique about shooting anything on a Texas game ranch- other than the sticker shock- and seeing bongo and gemsbok in the same pasture.

The point of going to Africa is not just for the animals you can take. The point is, it's Africa and there's nowhere else on earth that can equal the "African experiance"

Just my 2 cents worth.

Unfortunately, the African experience may not last - most (if not all) of the African countries with abundant game are run by corrupt governments and have massively growing populations usurping habitat. This combination seriously threatens the wildlife.

Thus, it is critical that we support game ranches, not only in Africa, but also in this country, which may paradoxically end up the last bastion for African wildlife.

I've done the "real deal" in Mozambique and game ranches in South Africa - I didn't notice significant differences in the behaviors of the free-ranging game animals. Both venues offered equivalent challenging hunts.

Regards, AIU

AI User and DHSinger - you both said a mouthfull. That's exactly how I feel. Hunting African game animals in any other location just cannot equal the real African experience. Also, unless you'd rather see a shanty town built on every piece of SA property that is now a game ranch, hunters need to support the game ranches in SA. I don't have an elitist attitude toward hunting in SA like some guys do. I've hunted properties there that are big enough to get lost on, and it was definitely fair-chase. I have many PH friends in SA who provide a high quality safari experience. I'm also not one of those fisherman who will only flyfish, because casting a spinner or plug is somehow beneath them. In other words, I don't put as many mental limitations on myself about where I'll hunt, or what method I use to catch fish, like some guys do.

Glen

I think this would work as a business plan. As strange as it sounds, there appears to be a large number of American hunters who prioritize killing this or that animal and are secondarily concerned with cost. Way down on their list is "experience" or the adventure of going far away from home and comfort. Who am I to object? I don't begrudge your desire to separate these hunters from their money.
I saw this very thing one year at SCI. I had just bit the bullet on a Bongo hunt in Cameroon and was going through the excitement and buyers remorse when I stumbled on a booth full of Texans selling Bongo hunts in Texas.
Cameroon was the right choice for me, but I realize most people don't think like me which might well be a good thing.
Take their money.

I would have no qualms about hunting under those conditions but price would be the determining factor for me. I can no longer afford to go to Africa because of finances so it would have to be cheaper to hunt in the US to attract me. In 8 safaris to Zimbabwe only one really stands out as 'an adventurous experience' and that was for elephant in the Doma area. The camp was quite remote and primitive and the Lions were numerous and vocal in the evening hours. Large flocks of Trumpeter Hornbills and Meyer's Parrots. While this experience could not be reproduced in Texas any of my other 7 experiences (except for some game animals such as Elephant) could easily be duplicated there. Camps and habitat is easily duplicated. Again for me it would strictly be a price thing.

I guess the hunting would be about the same but will everyone in Texas have their hand sticking out for some tip money like they do in Africa... I'd really hate to miss that.

quote:

I being a poor man am interested in Grants,Roberts and Thompsand Gazelles.
Anywhere but Tanzania

+1

It's funny, I always said I have no interest in hunting high fence outfits in Africa, because I could basically do the same thing in Texas.

I have no issue with folks who want to do such a hunt. I think the price point would need to be significantly lower than an African hunt to make it an attractive alternative.

Just for kicks, I checked the CURRENT prices for many of the critters you had listed with those of the outfit I hunted with in SA in 2003.

Here's how they shake out, with yours first:

Daily Fees:

$300/day per hunter (meals, lodging, guide) - $400 + 14% VAT
$100/day per non-hunter - 200

Trophy Fees:

Impala - $1,500 - $340
Blesbok - $1,500 - $325
Springbok - $1,500 - $290
Gemsbok - $2,000 - $1,090
Kudu - $5,000 - $1,160
Blue Wildebeest - $2,000 - $1,060
Zebra - $2,000 - $1,390
Nyala - $5,000 - $2,540

These are animals I hunted that you hadn't listed:

Black Wildebeest ??? - $1,090
Warthog - ???? - $365
Bushbuck ???? - $580

In 2003, most were cheaper, with $850 for both wildebeests, $1,100 for zebra, $1,700 for nyala, etc. etc.

I paid $4,995 for the basic 10-day hunt that included a kudu, gemsbok, springbok, impala, blesbok, warthog AND the daily rates, including all deluxe lodging, meals and an OPEN bar. We had access to approximately 3 MILLION acres spread all over eastern SA. No doubt the package would be higher today.

I added a 2nd springbok for a rug, blue & black wildebeests, bushbuck, zebra and nyala for just about $5,000 in trophy fees only; no additional daily fees.

Thus, for $10,000, I shot 12 critters. Misc. expenses for trophy prep, shipping, etc. came to about $1,500 and my plane fare was $2,100.

I'll let you do the math to see what the total on your "ranch" might be, but just the nyala and kudu at $5K per and the zebra and gemsbok at $2K per would pretty much eat the budget for EVERYTHING I spent except the taxidermy costs here at home.

In short, unless someone is really pressed for time, a trip to SA for plains game is the best fiscal option.

I am a bit confused. Since there is no way to cash flow such a business, and it is a multi-multi millionaire's pet project, why ask? Just do it.

Heck, if I was worth 200 million, I would do it. Testing out a new bullet on a zebra on the back 40 would be fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Now obviously people who plan on shooting one of everything get MUCH more "bang for their buck" in Africa (i.e.-shooting 10-15 animals)

But for someone who plans on taking 3 or 4 nice animals, there wouldn't be much of a difference at all.

Tony,

Please read the above quote from my earlier post....

Reading this subject I keep seeing African game, and African experience. Well, what about the black buck and Nigai, or the Dhama gazelle. One guy I know who's a big time big game hunter (is heading back to the Cameroon shortly), said, I don't mind shooting stuff in texas that I can't shoot, where it came from, any longer. I feel the same way. Why shoot a Gemsbok in Texas when you can go to Africa and be in Africa and do it. Two years ago I did a cull hunt in Namibia and took 7 Gemsbok, so sure wouldn't want to take one in Texas at 5k or some such silly thing. But I would like to take a black buck IF it actually had to be hunted. As for the African experience. I'm not sure what everyone else has experienced. But I've not been able to do a full tented hunt, somewhere like Zim or Tanzania, so haven't had the experience of setting around the campfire and BSing and such. The 4 hunts I done were on ranches, and after supper, MIGHT be a bit of banter, but otherwise, we went to our room and they went to theirs, so no different than going to some hunting or fishing facility here as far as I'm concerned. I'd LIKE to do a full DG hunt, etc. in Zim so I could have the experience of setting around in the evening BSing. but haven't yet.

Another thing. just because the African/Indian animals seem less concerned with people than whitetails, doesn't mean they aren't wild. I saw the same reaction in Africa.. they're used to people and don't always "run" just because people around, whereas white tails and Elk for some reason, oriented that way.. also, doesn't mean the African stuff can't be hard to approach if they determine you're up to not good by them.. I shot my Zebra in Zim at 25 yards, maybe, and my Impala at 50 feet, there. On my recent hunt, shot an Impala at 35-40 yards. So not all African game shot at 100s of yards (this last hunt was the first one I'd shot anything over a 100 yds). I've never shot a Whitetail at over 50 yds. I personally would not want to hunt African game at exhorbitant prices in texas, if I could go to where it is in Africa and hunt it there. Just like, when going to Africa, I don't want to hunt something there, that's "introduced" to the area, either. And high fenced farms there sure not unheard of. Indeed, more evdience of canned hunts in Africa than here.

Anyway, one day, may go to Texas to shoot a Blackbuck, which I've heard you do have to hunt. But don't think I'd want anything else.

I realize the Dhama gazelle intially from Africa, so didn't mean to imply, perhaps, that it isn't. But would want to hunt it in N.M.

I voted no reluctantly. A 10,000 ac place is reasonably sized but not near big enough to offer the species listed. If you were on one of the 100,000 ac or larger places in the trans Pecos area or south Texas - maybe.

I prefer the wildness of Africa personally.

Now, would I go and try this place? - maybe but would hope the "trophy" fees would be less. Further, trackers cannot be the same and I would not hunt from a box blind over a feeder or waterhole. Spot and stalk only but would miss having the trackers.

There are a few of these places in TX already so I would sure check my costs/prices etc, before offering this.

Also, you need to go to Namibia or RSA to see how this really works.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Now obviously people who plan on shooting one of everything get MUCH more "bang for their buck" in Africa (i.e.-shooting 10-15 animals)

But for someone who plans on taking 3 or 4 nice animals, there wouldn't be much of a difference at all.


Tony,

Please read the above quote from my earlier post....

Yeah, and that was one of the reasons I did the comparison because the quoted comments make little sense.

In short, why the heck would someone pay $14K for four critters when they could hunt 11 or 12 for the same amount of money and actually hunt then in Africa?

While you see not "much of a difference at all," I see a HUGE difference with the additional trophy fees for eight more animals, especially if the hunter later decided to kill them in Texas, as well.

As I said, the ONLY reason would be a very limited time schedule and/or very little common sense used.

Not only yes but hell yes!

The experience in Africa is hard to beat, bon fire, drinks, meals, stories, and the absolute numbers and varieties of wildlife. Then again, hunting there is easier than anything I ever experienced. And I enjoyed it. But with airfare, time, and additional costs,political turmoil, Texas would be nice substitute!

The majority of hunters on here are serious about what they're doing and don't mind the extra preparation and time to go to Africa. The majority of hunters in general are not and would take advantage of this I think without a doubt.