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Editor’s Note (G. Damm): Ronnie Rowland is a past president of the Professional Hunters’ Association (PHASA), recipient of the PHASA Wildlife Utilization Award in 2000 and recipient of the Coenraad Vermaak Trophy in 2005. Today Ronnie Rowland lives and hunts professionally in Namibia. Following the PHASA decision to adopt the SA predator breeders’ association stand on “hunting” of captive bred lions, Rowland wrote to the Executive Committee of PHASA in March 2014. African Indaba obtained permission to let you have Rowland’s thoughts in an authorized, edited version: Aldo Leopold concluded in his contemplation on ethics, that ethical behavior defines itself by doing the right thing in the absence of witnesses – even if it`s legal to do the wrong thing! Ortega y Gasset, in turn, observed in his masterful essay “Meditation on Hunting”, that the essence of hunting in our modern day and age has changed its character from hunting and gathering for survival to sport hunting with the principle of fair chase at its core. This change was prompted by hunters in order to negate the emerging imbalance between hunters and hunted through the development of modern day weapons and technological aids. By doing this, hunters strive to preserve the true essence of hunting and not to transgress certain boundaries which would reduce it to merely become an act of wanton killing or execution. To preserve the true essence of hunting in today’s world one also has to consider that animals should be naturally wild with natural inborn instincts, as opposed to those that have been linebred, domesticated and/or habituated. Both Leopold and Ortega impressed upon us to adhere to certain self-imposed principles, norms and standards should we want to safeguard our natural heritage as true hunters. At the core of this is our conscience. Many years ago I wrote in the PHASA Newsletter that morality and prudence are two sides of the same coin. The two concepts are often confused with one another. I suggested as difference that fair chase hunting based on morality is killing with a conscience, whereas the killing of animals based on prudence alone, entails an act of execution without a conscience. For clarity sake compare any true fair chase hunt of a wild animal with the shooting of a captive bred lion. Once we allow hunting to become amoral, i.e. without a conscience, we are transgressing the self-imposed boundary between hunters and hunted, ultimately destroying the essence of hunting. Once we allow rationality especially material gain to supersede our moral values, our world in general and hunting in particular, is doomed. Decisions based on prudence alone, will kill hunting! As a PHASA Past President and Honorary Life Member I would like the leadership of PHASA as well as the members to take note that I do not only disagree, but also distance myself totally from the direction taken and also from the ending of the liaison with the CIC Captive-bred lion shooting and the non-definitive positioning of PHASA regarding line breeding of mutants and recessive gene color variants of wild animals transgresses the boundaries of fair chase hunting, endangers the essence of hunting and at the same time allows the erosion of our moral foundations. In my opinion our greatest challenge is convincing the general public as well as governments that the wise and sustainable utilization of our natural wildlife through hunting is indispensable. The CIC is the only European based organization that has stood up for our cause with distinction. No other organization has a better and broader respected standing with IUCN and governments worldwide! So why did PHASA decide terminating membership in the CIC? Obviously, if the reason for the breakdown in relationships concerns the captive-bred lion issue and/or line-breeding, massive obstacles have to be overcome. It is fair and well to comment that the lion issue was debated extensively at the last two PHASA AGMs and that a majority decision by PHASA members led to the present direction taken, i.e. to accept captive bred lion shooting as a reality. However, the lion issue had already been properly debated and thoroughly contemplated since the middle 90s resulting in a PHASA policy statement against captive bred lion shooting in the late 1990`s This position and the policy were reconfirmed again in 2006. The PHASA leadership in those days refused to accept “canned lion hunting” as a form of hunting, defining it to be the mere execution of captive bred lion, hence the phrase “captive bred lion shooting”, like in target shooting. In both cases the policy was accepted with an overwhelming majority by the members at the AGMs concerned. Question: What in actual fact has changed? None of the arguments, contemplations deliberations and facts of yesteryear, based on ethical reasoning with a moral foundation, have changed. The only thing to my mind that has changed is the leadership and the overwhelming commercialization of hunting which allows the “Dollar God” to reign supreme! The PHASA Code of Conduct underwrites the concept of fair chase. Has anyone realized that the acceptance of captive bred lion shooting also requires a change in this Code of Conduct since fair chase hunting is in total contradiction with the acceptance of captive bred lion shooting. [I will] have no choice but to resign as an honorary life member should the principle of fair chase hunting be disregarded in favor of the lion debacle and there are many like-minded members who will also be put before this choice! [Once] we allow hunting to become amoral we are transgressing the self-imposed boundary between man and wild animals which stops hunting to be hunting. Once we allow material gain to supersede moral values, our world in general and hunting in particular is doomed. Prudent decisions alone, e.g. captive bred lion execution and line breeding of mutants, will kill hunting! Our only chance to safeguard hunting as a noble tradition and way of life is to convince the majority of the populace that our activities have a moral foundation. The breeding of lions in captivity as well as the line breeding of mutants and recessive genes for execution has and will never have a place in the sphere of true fair chase hunting. It has no moral base, no conscience and is purely based on materialistic considerations. Author: Ronnie Rowland (edited by Gerhard R Damm) | ||
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Cannot agree more! Unfortunately the "Dollar God" certainly rules. Canned lion shooting is despicable in any guise and the colour mutant craze is unnatural. True hunting is becoming hard and harder to come by... | |||
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Ronnie Rowland has it dead right! The PHASA vote that he refers to was a surprise motion from the floor and (if the figures I was quoted are correct) it was passed by less than 5% of the total membership because the meeting was so badly attended...... To me at least, that is undemocratic in the extreme and it should have gone to a postal ballot so that every member had the opportunity to vote. | |||
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I'd say Rowland has it spot on. Considering the proliferation of the high fenced hunting in the US for exotics, why not just have a few outfits raising captive bred lions in Texas. Can kick them out in the big exotic ranches and track em down. Save the flight costs. ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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I agree, but like it or not, canned hunting of lions keeps a healthy population alive. Economics and ethics are going to have to learn to accommodate each other. STAY IN THE FIGHT! | |||
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For what purpose? As I see it, they're only bred for money and the self glorification of trophy room decorators and they make no contribution to the conservation of the wild population because the wild population are on quota. The best thing that could happen from our point of view is for the breeding of lions to be banned throughout the continent and if I had my way, that'd happen with immediate effect. | |||
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And like it or not……… eventually the optics of this practice will bring about its demise. The general public and the other 98% of hunters around the world who do not view this as hunting and fair chase, ethical………. whatever terms you want to use…………….. will have it shut down. Just the USFWS shutting the doors on lion imports will have a huge impact on this practice. As for 'healthy' population. If all of the captive lion breeders are following a stiff protocol for breeding practices to ensure they are raising healthy, genetically robust animals they will be the first. Man has never 'improved' anything with their breeding programs. They may manipulate for certain traits that are commercially or aesthetically desirable, but they do not improve or enhance or even manage to maintain the status quo. I see pictures constantly of white lions and other such mutants that are deliberately being bred for collectors to harvest. These are not animals being bred to ensure the availability of healthy, genetically sound lions for re-introduction into wild areas………. they are lion bling produced by breeding for specific traits to sell for monetary gain. In our quest to promote hunting as the sustainable use of wildlife and a tool of conservation we do need to remember the optics of what we do and how it is perceived by the masses. As I said, most hunters do not approve of this practice that is carried out by a tiny fraction of one percent of the 'hunters' out there, and they most assuredly will not defend it. As is usually the case the staunch proponents are those who offer the services or partake of it. At some point hunting begins to blur and it becomes all about killing. ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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You are sure what are saying !!! Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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I disagree. If we are going to ignore ethics for the sake of economics why don't we wipe out whole bunch of labor laws in regards to child labor, sweat shops, etc., etc.. I remember at the SCI show some RSA outfits were selling 3 day Lion hunts for 18-25K a pop. That is a livestock shoot, not hunting. One of them sold over a dozen in one day. At 50% profit that is a decent amount of cash so I understand the economic incentive. Let me add one other thing. What happens when governments say you have your canned hunting, so we will ban all wildlife hunting in order to preserve the animals in the wild? If I was in one of the anti-hunting groups that would be the argument I'd go for to convince the governments to "preserve" wildlife. Give hunters the livestock option, and take away hunting in the wild. | |||
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I told my self I wouldn't but what the F*ck. I don't see the difference between the lion breeding and the "new" color phase of springbok, I think it is called copper and the new color phase of gemsbok don't know what they are calling the new color. I do see the pricing of the "new" color phases are higher. Is it not just about money. Why not great outrage against ANY animal raised to be shot by the tourist "hunter". Of course that would play Hell with the RSA hunting industry. | |||
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Well, for one thing, it is illegal in Texas to do so. Exotic grazers are one thing, critters with teeth and fangs are another all together! H. Cole Stage III, FRGS ISC(PJ), USN (Ret) "You do not have a right to an opinion. An opinion should be the result of careful thought, not an excuse for it." Harlan Ellison " War is God's way to teach Americans geography." Ambrose Bierce | |||
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Sorry mate...... I don't understand your comment? But if you mean am I sure I'd like to see all captive lion breeding banned? - Yes I would. I believe it only does harm to the hunting industry & community & also that it gives ammo to the anti hunting crowd to use against us & that they will use it to try to ban both captive bred lion shooting & also ALL real hunting in Africa........ and in fact, that's already happening. | |||
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As soon as the bred lion hunting stopped, the antis will start on ALL captive bred animal hunting. And you are dead right Ed, where would the SA hunting industry be then? | |||
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I fully support Ronnie, the captive bred Lion shooting is all about greed, there are no ethics, morals and no fair chase only a money making industry to fulfil the dreams of a trophy collector with no respect for the animal that is shot. This cannot be called hunting in no terms. Life is how you spend the time between hunting trips. Through Responsible Sustainable hunting we serve Conservation. Outfitter permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/73984 PH permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/81197 Jaco Human SA Hunting Experience jacohu@mweb.co.za www.sahuntexp.com | |||
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I look at it this way I can't afford to hunt wild lion, but I'll be damned if Id lower myself to hunt it in small enclosure, knowing its a sure thing. I can see if some of these SA operators would keep lion population on big ranches wild, but I can't see it happening. So thanks but no lion in my book as I have no need for " collection " " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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I have to agree with these guys. As it has been said before this condemnation of captive lion shooting is just another way we as hunters are putting ourselves in opposing camps to the benefit of the antis. I do not want to shoot a captive lion nor do I market these hunts but it does not offend me that people go on these hunts. What's next on the condemnation list? How about any animal behind any kind of a fence? Baiting for any animal? Hunting with dogs? This is a slippery slope if we go down it. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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captive- bred is the hunting of the future. | |||
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I believe that the shooting of captive bred lions will be one of the major contributory factors to the banning of all sport trophy hunting in Africa in the future. Hopefully not in my lifetime though. I should say, I think a lot of people confuse captive bred as happens with many lions in southern Africa with bred in a fenced area such as a game farm as happens with antelope & the difference between the two is massive. | |||
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Divided we fall! The "captive bred" thing is just an excuse and an easy mark for the antis. I can think of a few sound reasons to hunt captive bred lions. 1) Take "some" pressure of of wild lions. 2) More lions in the gene pool. 3) "Game Farming" for hunting has brought many species back from the brink of danger. Blesbok, black wildebeest, scimitar and addax...... Stand together orrrrr....uh....fall apart. . | |||
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The best thing for wild lions is the captive/canned hunting in south africa. It supplies lion bones at sub $100 a pound to the asian market. The whole show of cattle raiding lions and all seems like a scam or maybe is part of show that the client knows and is in on - makes him feel good. For all the wild lion hunting seeing number of permits issued, hunts sold, success rates would be interesting to say the least. Mike | |||
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I guess what I should have additionally written earlier was that I don't like these outdoor shows where a lion is shot in what is obviously a canned situation and there is no mention of this. It scares me to think that the uneducated on lion hunting may very think that this is how a real lion hunt is conducted and basically all we do is ride out and shoot "Old Frank". Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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dont know why I ever bothered to post on this thread since it is the same old silly argument | |||
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I was being sarcastic. I can remember years ago seeing a huge uproar over Texas exotic ranchers and such releasing lions and tigers from cages and 'hunters' shooting them. It was a hot topic on the news and drew a lot of negative publicity. I don't know for sure, but perhaps that had something to do with the ban on things with teeth and claws? ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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I agree with Mark as well Each to their own, if some guys wanna shoot one of those, more power to them. But I can't do it, it actually turns me off I have watched couple of them shows and it's downright ridiculous " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Steve - most countries are irrelevant. Sweden, Denmark or Trinidad or most other countries view does not matter. China's does. If the Chinese want to consume african animal products they are going to consume it. Trying to change culture and recently acquired (much more correct term is re acquired) economic wealth is near impossible in the short term. An occasional Chinese public figure like Jack Ma might take a stand against say shark fin soup. But nothing is going to really stop the Chinese demand for african animal product. Even if 1/100,000 Chinese consume or desire to consume lion bone or rhino horn - it is tens of thousands of consumers. Anyone going to China or Hong Kong can see shop after shop, some very high end, of Chinese herbal medicine. I think for Africa's wild animals we are better off farming them and creating a legal market in their products. I have no insight in what to do with elephants - as they are long lived and ivory is only harvestable once. Mike | |||
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I agree. Although I would never buy a canned lion hunt, these hunts give lions value; and, if they have value, they will survive on this planet dominated by humans, whom decide what lives and what dies. Who knows, maybe these bred lions - or their offspring - will make it back to the wild where they belong. But, lions will not make it back to the wild, if they are extinct; and, we are in the midst of a mass wildlife extinction caused by human over population. Did you know that humans comprise ~40% of all the biomass of living animals - sans bacteria - on the planet earth? Ants comprise another ~40%, and all other animals comprise the remaining ~20% - that is how many humans their are on this planet. Non-human mammals, birds, reptiles, and the like are in serious danger. AIU | |||
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We live in an international, online world and all countries are relevant, especially those that are signatories to CITES (and other organisations) and not many are not. You'll excuse me for saying so, but your assumption that other countries are not relevant is somewhat typically American. (No offence to Americans in general!  ) | |||
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To me, the principle is one's own choice. I would not shoot a lion in South Africa, the same way that I would not shoot a rhino there either. It is my own personal choice. If others wish to do so, that is entirely up to them, and I will be damned if I would support the antis who are standing against them. How about all the put-and-take plains game animals in South Africa that is being hunted? Are we going to support the antis when they start going after those too? My ONLY objection to shooting farm grown lions is the lies associated with them. Don't make it that they are free range lions. | |||
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I'm not so much worried bout the antis celebrating their success at stop[ping captive bred lion shooting by then moving on to a "next" species of captive bred "trophy" animals - be it a big horned buffalo or a copper springbok! What I'm really concerned about is the anti hunting idiots latching on to the argument: You have captive bred lions in good and seemingly inexhaustible supply to hunt to your heart's content: So why not help us stop the hunting of real wild lions? Now that would be a real disaster! In good hunting. Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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I'm not one to normally be drawn into the lion hunting debate, but there are just a couple thoughts on my mind. First, I have to echo the comments that even if you don't agree with captive bred lion hunting, it is a form of hunting in the public's eye and needs to be supported. The voting demographic be it for lion hunting, large capacity magazines, back-ground checks on rifle purchases or any regulations regarding guns and hunting is not solely decided upon by pro-hunting folks. Even if it's not to your fancy, you should have some facts (like it doesn't take away from wild populations) that you can hand out to the crowd who is undecided to help sway them in favor of hunting. We can bicker among ourselves, but when it comes to us versus the non-hunting (but still voting) public, if it's pro-hunting we need to stand together. If you don't want to bait for bears, shoot color phased springbok, captive bred lions, or mutant whitetail deer, you don't have to participate. Secondly, the vast majority of the general public believes lion hunting is already illegal (as well as elephant, leopard, and pretty much any animal out of Africa). It's not hard for the general public to accept something if they already believe it to be true. Discovery channel has carefully worded their documentaries to cast hunters in a bad light, so most any lion hunting debate starts with first explaining why it is still legal. Third, there is a lot of hunters who just don't care one way or the other what the outcome of the lion hunting debate is. The plain truth about lion hunting is it is expensive and beyond the reach of the average hunter. I know there are many fortunate people here on AR that have hunted lion and some many times, but for the average hunter, debating lion hunting is just a lot of hot air for something they will probably never be able to afford. Lion hunting is the 1%, so average-joe-deer-hunter isn't going to be concerned if something beyond his reach goes missing. He wont be concerned when it's elephant, then leopards, then Africa all together, but when it starts to impact his deer, elk, and boar hunting he will take notice, but it will be already too late. I understand the slippery slope, I want to hunt a lion, but will truthfully probably never be able to afford it. For the other hunters who don't hang out on this forum, they need to be able to see why something obtainable by only elite millionaires (which is how a lion hunter is seen, whether you like it or not), effects them. What it boils down to, IMO, is an us versus them mentality. The problem is them, non-hunters, are united against hunting and we as hunters are all over the board and can't agree on anything except we all like hunting. We really need to work as a group to support all hunting, then decide among ourselves what the rules should be. It would be far better for us to have unofficial rules that we can tailor as needed depending on populations and we be seen as good stewards of the land, then there be no hunting and/or a bunch of red tape because we can't agree on anything. ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Captive Bred Lions - A View from an Honorary member of PHASA
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