I posted this reply to ElkKamp on another thread. Also wanted to post an apology here in case you guys are ignoring our thread. Many of us at Leverguns were following your .45-70 debate as well as having our own when a fellow named Chuckwagon stepped in over there with some rather rude behavior to put it mildly. You can get the rest from my post and hopefully this explains (not excuses)some of our behavior and sorry if any of you got dragged into our brawl.Elkkamp,
I will let you in on the deal here. Carmelo started this thread to get the goat of a troll named Chuckwagon as the debate was highjacking another thread that was closely named to this one. We followed him over here to AR from another site where he was trashing some good folks over there and got banned for his behavior that was exceptionaly tasteless regardless of what he says and then came over here trashing our site. Some of us took that personally. If you go back and read the thread here and at the other thread you will see that. I tried to stay on topic on the other thread after Bill got after us even though Chuckwagon got us going again over there. I don't know why Atkinson came over here but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't catch what was going on. The only thing I took exception with Atkinson about was his comment that only a "dumbass" would use the .45-70. He has the right to think differenly than us but when you start personally affronting people, well that kind of gets the ball rolling, and as far as leagues go none of us really know each other do we? I iamgine we would ultimately disagree on the capabilities of a properly loaded .45-70 and thats fine.
As far as Jorge is concerned I don't know where he came from with his drivel about French Chateau and planes but he asked for it.
I will admit that I have not "been there done that" as you put it and have never hunted anything larger than the Elk here at home so I am perfectly willing to "sit down, shut up" and listen in and learn as I already have in between rattling Chuckwagons chain. This is a good site and no matter how I ended up here I'm glad I found it. You guys have a lot of good information here.
I hope this clears this up for some of you guys and sorry if we trashed your place. I know we didn't like it when ChuckWagon did it to us so I can see your point. We just tried to keep it over hear on this thread.
BTW I was never at MT although I would have liked to before it went as Marlins are a favorite of mine.

Troll being defined as one you do not agree with in a debate. I have never posted under any other handle on ANY web site. I used the same handle at Leverguns.com as I do here and else where.

I have to admit that the only reason I came over here is because I was told that Mister ChuckWagon was trashing me over here after he got himself kicked off another site.

I came over here to look for myself and saw that it was true in spades. Not a problem, said what I needed to say and let it be.

However, you do have some people here that I recognize and that I appreciate. You have a great board with lots of interesting stuff and I congratulate you for that.

Thanks for letting me visit.

Then why don't you leave it as a nice board instead of bringing your petty assed squabbles over here????

Please just read my post. I did not bring anything over here. I did not even know this place existed when this started.

I apologize too, ethereal comparisons are unfair to some posters cerebral acumen. Next time I'll be more down to earth. While my initial {sic} drivel was not specifically aimed at anybody, I was merely trying to inject some fun into the discussion while at the same time trying to explain that while something was possible, it wasn't nessesarily prudent or efficient. "soreshoulder" decided to make it personal. As is the case with most hit and runs like that, it takes a real man to insult behind the veil of the internet. jorge

I would like to offer an apology if my refusal to join the 45-70 religion has offended anyone.

I forgive you. (Though I am not offended) Plenty of room for all faiths I reckon.

I wonder if I can get a preacher's license???? Hmmmm.

I am a believer in the you can't "unring a bell" theory. Accordingly, I try real hard not to say anything derogatory, especially because it doesn't take a whole lot of guts to be tough while hiding behind a keyboard. I stand by what I said, anybody that uses a 45/70 to go after buffalo when other much better calibers abound has either an agenda to peddle or doesn't know any better. Not to mention, well, it's "tacky." jorge

Jorge you can call it unringing a bell or whatever you want. If you don't want to let it go thats fine too. If you think I hide behind a keyboard thats cause you don't know me and I see your sitting behind a keyboard making some pretty strong statements youself and then backpeddling to top it off. And just to set things things straight I did NOT apologize for any thing I said to you or anyone else. I apologized for brawling at this site and I'm willing to take my licks as well as give them anytime.

Soreshoulder:Apparently you are jsut too obtuse to understand anything I said. "C" most definetly applies in your case. My original post was not aimed at you or anyone else in particular. This kind of post by you is precisely why. It doesn't take a lot of guts for me to insult you from behind this keyboard. Backpedal? not hardly. jorge

Well if it wasn't aimed at me before your sure throwing at least part of it me fairly regular now meaning your letter "c". You cannot generalize, minimize or trivialize your post after the fact, you know what you meant and I am definately not too obtuse to know what you meant Your claim earlier of not making derogotory remarks rings hollow in the light of your original post and that is the backpedaling I am refering to in case you are too obtuse to figure that out. Go ahead and think what you want and enjoy your superiority complex. I KNOW what my I.Q. is, I dont have to try to prove it with my vocabulary. That is all I have to say on this thread as it has digressed from it's intended purpose.

Well at eat you got that last part right. My last post WAS aimed at you SPECIFICALLY. The others, if you go back and read, where not aimed at anyone in particular. Superiority complex? With almost 24 years of tactical naval aviation and over 600 arrested night landings ( 397 at night) you bet your ass I have a superiority complex. When it comes to hunting however, I am in AWE of a lot of folks here and when guys with over TEN times the African/DGR experience that I have, I'm smart enough to as they say "dummy up and fly wing" and learn from them. jorge

soreshoulder and the other newer members of AR...a piece of advice given in hopes of helping you out a little.

Things on AR can, on occassion, get what seems to be a little rough but we all (almost all) get along most of the time so let me suggest

(1) don't be so thin-skinned and get the chip off your shoulder as every comment isn't an invitation to a fight.

(2) even if you are convinced it is an invitation to a fight it's Ok to respond but try and do it in a way that doesn't futher inflame the situtation and you really don't need to respond every time someone else does...it becomes a never ending and does no one any good.....might I suggest a simple "Your Mother wears combat boots" is a sufficent response many times .... it worked when you were a kid, didn't it?

Mac and Bill- Amen. Let's hope this B.S. is over.

Geez, this thread and a couple others on the 45/70 are sure making the tongue-in-check Some Observations thread I started seem a lot less humorous. -TONY