Now that the government has set the new fees, has anyone seen what the cost will be to the clients? For example, I would like to know what a 10 day (the new minimum # of days) buffalo hunt in the selous will cost. seemed like it was 10k to 12k for a 7 day hunt all inclusive buff hunt there prior to the fee increase.

Everyone is hedging their bets at the moment because they're waiting for the official Government announcement of what species will be available on each licence.

However, it's not impossible that some companies will be offering a 7 day hunt on a 10 day licence and may possibly restrict some of the new species. IF this happens, you might possibly be able to buy a 7 day hunt for something like US$15500 or so plus trophy fees.

It also wouldn't suprise me if some companies at least, were going to offer something like a 16 day Leopard hunt.......

But as I say, no-one seems to be committing themselves until the the proper announcement is made.........

My advice would be to sit tight and wait for a few days.

Thanks Steve.... it ought to be interesting to see what shakes out.

The actualy cost of hunting in Tanzania should never be as high as it is.

I suspect this is due to the enormous profit being made by those who have the concessions from the government, then sub-lease them to others as incredibly inflated prices.

Those who run the safaris have to recover their costs, and of course make some profit.
All this is passed on to the hunter, hence the high daily rates, plus the mark up on the trophy fees.

Saeed, you are partially correct, in that the sub-contracting you describe is a very real factor in the industry in Tanzania. However I would guess that less than half the blocks in Tanzania are sub-let by Tanzanian individuals to other operators, who are generally foreign based. A great many blocks are owned and operated by locally registered companies who provide full service.

As a rule of thumb you will find the latter to be more expensive than the sub-contracting companies. This is for several reasons:

1. The more reputable companies who are based here shoot far less than their allocated quotas, in essence getting a few hunters to pay for a block. By contrast the sub-contractor is under the cosh for many tens of thousands in his sub-lease fee, plus operating and marketing costs, so he will deal in volume and sell hunts as best he can - utilising full quotas. (Which are ridiculously high in most blocks). Of course there are cheaper locally based operators - one has already imploded as a result of their shoot out and get out philosophy.

2) The locally based full service operators live and work in Tanzania's very highly priced environment. Rents, schooling, fuel, food, equipment are all sky high in Tanzania. Office space in downtown Dar costs the same as in Manhattan!!! He also has unseen partners (in most cases) to take care of in order to keep his blocks. By contrast the sub-contractor will generally live in much cheaper environments such as South Africa or Zimbabwe, he will come up for the season, live out of the back of his cruiser and go home (hopefully with some money) at the end of the season.

3). A direct result of the high cost of living in Tanzania is the scale of PH pay. A top PH working for one of the big name companies will earn around $400 per day for his time, this is maybe more than the entire daily rate for an S.A. plainsgame hunt. This per diem is also directly influenced by the relatively short season in Tanzania.

The system in Tanzania is unfortunately opaque at best, and while this fee hike does not help matters in the short term, it may spell the beginning of some pro-active governmental interest in the industry, which has been a closed shop for many years. This is the optimistic view.

It will certainly be harder for the sub-contractors (who include many fine PH's and operators) to make a dollar, and correspondingly so for their block holders.

It is also to be hoped for that the result will be that some of these blocks get a rest from the relentless overshooting which has occurred. Of course a rest from hunting does not preclude a rest from poaching - a major worry.

There are also some big name companies who charge huge money and get it, from the "price is no object crowd". Although their prices seem outrageous, these outfitters have a very real place in the industry, in that they generally take great care of their blocks and are a huge positive force for good sustainable utilisation. Their owners also make very good money for being the best in their business - anything wrong with that?

I have worked on both sides of the spectrum and offer the above merely to apprise members of just a few of the factors facing any outfitter/PH in Tanzania. As above there are good people on either end of the scale, and more than anything it is the system which results in abuses and high costs, seldom the individual.

Hope that helps, and I hope that the end result of the shake up will be affordable hunting for quality animals on a sustainable basis, something which has not been achieved thus far in Tanzania.

P.S. While I know it has been the dream fulfilled and first taste of D.G. hunting for many of you, in my opinion the demise of the 7 day buffalo hunt is way overdue, it has cost the buffalo herds and trophy quality of Tanzania immensely.

If you disagree, look back through hunt reports and compare the bosses (hard vs. soft) of Tanz buffalo versus Zim buffalo, where most hunts allow the hunter just one bull.

Just one area where the new legislation should have a positive effect.

JT,
you have outlined some very valid points. I remain skeptical about these fees reducing the trend of sub-leasing. There are local outfitters that have been engaged in this abuse that have not remitted a penny (or only partially remitted) to the Wildlife Dpt for years but are still operating and still hold blocks. These fees will not affect them a great deal.

In the end, the turning point is whether the customer is willing and able to pay the price. The multi-millionaires among us may consider this a mere nuisance, clients of more modest means may think twice. It will be interesting to see what happens.

I looked at a hunting catalog from 2003 the other night, not recommended literature if you are suffering from heartburn over current prices (TZ or elsewhere).

- mike

I think that JTHunt & BwanaMich have it absolutely right.......

Tanzania has always been expensive and it also has the quality to justify that high price and I personally don't think the new high prices are particularly unreasonable. - I have a big problem with how and when they announced those prices, but I do feel the prices themselves are not unreasonable for the product you get.

As for the 10 day licence replacing the 7 day, I'm all for that as well for the same reasons he states.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
JT,
you have outlined some very valid points. I remain skeptical about these fees reducing the trend of sub-leasing. There are local outfitters that have been engaged in this abuse that have not remitted a penny (or only partially remitted) to the Wildlife Dpt for years but are still operating and still hold blocks. These fees will not affect them a great deal.

You are dead right bwanamich, this is just some of the opacity I referred to which dogs the industry here. How do they get away with it? I guess we all know the answer to that.

I got the revised pricing for 2008 with the outfitter that I was planning on hunting with in Masailand for 21 days in 2009. I cancelled the hunt as soon as I saw the amount, and ended up booking 21 days in Zambia a couple of days later.

quote:

Originally posted by JTHunt:
P.S. While I know it has been the dream fulfilled and first taste of D.G. hunting for many of you, in my opinion the demise of the 7 day buffalo hunt is way overdue, it has cost the buffalo herds and trophy quality of Tanzania immensely.

If you disagree, look back through hunt reports and compare the bosses (hard vs. soft) of Tanz buffalo versus Zim buffalo, where most hunts allow the hunter just one bull.

Just one area where the new legislation should have a positive effect.

Tanzania has always been and probably always will be out of my price range…

Anything much over a 10 day hunt would be out of my available time range…

Being of a hunter/conservationist mind set; where is a relatively “financially challenged†guy supposed to look?

Zimbabwe?

If you book with the right operator, Zim will give you a good hunting experience...... but as every African country is different, it won't be the same hunting experience as you'd get in Tanzania.

The problem is that Tanzania is like most good things in life. It costs what it costs, just like a Cadillac & a Westley Richards etc.

Shakari,
Did I read that right that the gov. hasn't yet announced what species will be on each license?

Any idea when that will happen?

I'm booked for a 7 day hunt but now get to buy a 10 day license. Doesn''t really seem like I get anything for it (Masailand). A bushpig and a baboon is what's new on the list from the booking agent.

For those interested, my hunt went up 26%. I may still cancel. I have about a week to decide. Unfortunately, 2008 seems to be filling up pretty fast everywhere else. If I do keep the hunt, it will be my last in TZ. Way too much heartburn for a vacation.

That's quite correct. The subject is being discussed this week and it's hoped that it will be finalised by Monday...... I guess, with announcements ASAP afterwards. Obviously the intention is to get it finalised before the conventions.

If your booking agent has already sent you a list of what's on the new 10 day licence, he's making a guess..... it may be an educated guess, but a guess nevertheless. Nothing is confirmed until the Government/Game Dept issue an official statement in writing. - and that hasn't happened yet.

Hey, don't be put off Tanzania by this stuff up. It's all part of the African experience!

heartburn and highway robbery ( because of a corrupt/incompetent/shadowy concession allotment process) should not be a part of a vacation anywhere. and to imply that Tz is the only African country where you can get the real deal in a safari experience is baloney. i was unaware of the generally high cost of living and doing business in Tz. but from the poverty i saw there it is obvious where the money spent on an expensive hunt is really going. there ain't no trickle down economics in play here!

The process can only get worse, IMHO. So my advice would be to go now to Tanzania and to go without complaint.

Thank God for those few concession holders who value, get value from, and do not sublet their blocks, and who always underhunt their quotas.

When things become more transparent (as if that were an unalloyed virtue, in Africa, and Tanzania no less, of all places), will there be any of these few left?

I would say no. Things seldom get better in any vocation or venue. Things generally and inevitably get worse, especially where human beings are concerned, and only more so in the Africa of our times.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
and to imply that Tz is the only African country where you can get the real deal in a safari experience is baloney.

Don't know if that comment was aimed at me or not, but assuming it was....... I didn't imply that at all..... nor did I mean to. My comment was that every African country is different, and that the hunting experience in one country is different to that found in every other African country.

There's no doubt that Tanzania has some wonderful hunting, and so do many other countries....... BUT they're all different to each other.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
The process can only get worse, IMHO. So my advice would be to go now to Tanzania and to go without complaint.

Thank God for those few concession holders who value, get value from, and do not sublet their blocks, and who always underhunt their quotas.

When things become more transparent (as if that were an unalloyed virtue, in Africa, and Tanzania no less, of all places), will there be any of these few left?

I would say no. Things seldom get better in any vocation or venue. Things generally and inevitably get worse, especially where human beings are concerned, and only more so in the Africa of our times.

There, ladies and gentlemen, speaks somebody who knows exactly what he is talking about.

Thank you Mrlexma for your continued balanced and informed contributions.