Since this forum tends to be the most level headed and well-reasoned, I thought I would post here with the expectation of some constructive discussions, especially in light of other forums where one tends to be tar and feathered for not using Match Kings, Ballistic Tips and heart/lung shots exclusively.

I was watching one of the many hunting shows on TV, I think this one was called "Game Trails" with Larry Weishung (sp?). Anyhow, he is a big Thompson Contender salesman. The show had him hunting Cape Buffalo with a 375 H&H barrel. He made relatively short range (looked about 30-40 yard shot)behind the shouler. He had the spare bullet in his mouth, and even then it took him close to EIGHT (8) seconds just to reload (and I do not include bringing the rifle back up for aimed fire) by which time the buff had run off, fortunately AWAY from the hunting party.

So my query for discussion is this; Am I being overly critical in his choice of firearms or is this just an unabashed sales pitch for the TC? (after all the buff DID die after about a 100 yards plus run, but heck, who am I to quation those heart lung shots anyway)For the record, I despise those hideous looking TCs,and I know there are those of you out there who hunt dangerous game with bows and other single shots, but the TC you not only have to insert a fresh cartridge but you have to cock the hammer as well.

In my view, eight seconds is way too long to effect a reload. If that buff would have turned towards them, there is no way he would have effected a reload in time, let alone fire an aimed shot, hence forcing the PH to step in. Thoughts? jorge

Jorge,
My vote is simply a sales pitch. Ask me some time in private about the fantastic hunt I got screwed out of in Texas on a big ranch that Larry Weishun pushes on his shows. I don't think its much different that many other shows and wanna be sellers of hunts, guns etc that compromise ethics and their reputation for a little bit of money. Just my 2 cents.

I would bet the PH was NOT carrying a single shot

If it had gone the other way the PH would have had to step in. Would we have seen it then on TV?

Jorge:

You have a PM coming.

If you give me a free buffalo hunt, I'd also wear the colour of underwear that you wanted.

Jorge, I get sick of the sales pitches on hunting shows. They're even worse than the "gun-of-the-month-club" articles in the hunting magazines.

Larry W. isn't exactly my favorite outdoor writer, and that TC Contender contraption is -- and this is my opinion only -- an ungainly, ill-conceived piece of crap. I guess you can get by with it for whitetails, but I wouldn't consider it from African hunting, especialy Cape buffalo hunting, and that eeight-second delay you're referring to is one of the primary reasons why.

AD

Ole Larrys a whore...He pushes the TC for bucks and hunts. I suppose that is acceptable, but is a little trying at times...

He is also a person who discovered the Del Carmen Whitetail deer of the Big Bend of Texas and got it recognized in SCI record books and as a sub species...The fact is the Del Carmine Whitetail is a Coues Deer that was imported from Arizona during the CCC camp days of Roosevelts reconstruction era, when they were making jobs and coming out of the big depression..My Dad, uncles and a number of the old timers in that area, drove those truck loads of deer and dumped them in the Big Bend Park..I have told some high muckley mucks about this, but it landed on deaf ears, the embarrassment was more than they could handle.

There are lots of folks who go on hunts with inferior/undesirable equipment because they get a free hunt out of it, plus get paid to write an article. Take for example the Boddington/Weatherby buffalo in Tanzania in which Craig carried a Wby Mark V .416 with a skull-splitting brake on it. I would find it hard to believe that a Wby Mark V .416 with a brake is Craig's first choice in buffalo rifles. But I cannot blame the guy for going on a free hunt. Most of us would do the same.

Just remember these hunts,articles and shows are a job for these guys. No doubt it is an enjoyable one for them but it is a job none the less. I dont care for a lot of them myself. The thing to remember is these guys are all salesmen of one type or another. That is how they earn their keep. So knowing that, you just have to decide what has legitimate merit and what is just sales pitch. I guess my point is dont take any of it too seriously. Enjoy what you can and discard the rest.

At least Craig was SPONSORED by Weatherby on a Weatherby paid-for Video. The video made no bones about the fact that Weatherby had HIRED Craig to take the rifle on it's "maiden voyage" to Africa and by the way, it performed admirably, taking zebra and other game.Ross Seyfried speaks high praise of the round.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 416 Weatherby for buffalo. 500 Grains, you like others just don't care for them and since it's not your preference then it's AFU. While the Weatherby is not my first choice as a DGR, the round AND the rifle are certainly up to the task, while that ungainly piece of garbage TC is most certainly not. , I have it on good authority that Mr. Weishun WORKS for TC, which is not addressed in the show. Like Allen says, eight seconds between reloads is quite unacceptable. jorge

I have not seen the show, but 8 seconds is an incredibly long time to take to reload a TC. They are as fast as any single shot rifle for reloading.

Jorge,

I signed up for the Sports Package on my local cable video company so I could get The Outdoor Channel and Outdoor Life Network. When I first started watching these channels I was very open to the shows, now I don't pay so much attention to them.

TOC in particular is about half-way between an infomercial and a conventional cable TV channel. You really have to filter what you watch. There is some good stuff, even if the folks are selling. Jim Shockey comes to mind.

Larry Weishen is obviously a TC shill, but there are others doing the same thing with TC products.

I bought a TC Contender some while back to try out, thinking I might give hunting with it a whirl. After getting it, I decided to stick to my magazine rifles. YMMV.

I believe the animals deserve some respect, and we show that in part by what we use to hunt them. I don't like to carry what I call "stunt guns" after dangerous game.

jim

Larry,Craig, Shockey.....

They're all whores some more flagrant than others. No one in his right mind would choose a contender as the best weapon for DG. A Knight muzzle loader comes to mind as not a great choice either. Nor would they choose much of the other crap that they pitch for the hunting industry.

As far as wearing some elese skid marked underwear in order to hunt buffalo. That's ok I'll just buy my own thank you very much. Kind of goes without saying......

Now run out and get your cough silencers before you scare anymore game..

Guys,

It seems that this thread or similiar ones come up every so often. What I wonder is what makes people so angry about gun writers etc. promoting a particular product, hunting outfit etc.? Actors do adds for products they probably never heard of until the day they went to the studio. Does that piiss you off? What's the difference? These hunting shows are entertainment and therefore It only seems reasonable that some of the facts might be tainted with a little whimsy. These guys have just found a way to make a living from going hunting which would be a fantasy come true for most of us. Gee! If you find these shows offensive don't watch.

Regards,

Mark

I was goin to but one of those cough silencers just the other day but they didn't have the right size for my azz !

I think it's called envy or some such thing.

Weatherby can take me hunting anywhere any time and I'll be glad to tell everyone in sight how great their stuff performed. .

What I think is funny is that it takes 8 seconds for the guy who is supposed to be good with it...

I had an encore for a while and with practice could reload and be back on target in 5 if I was standing...no that ain't great either but its close to a 40% improvement...

I doubt that I could repeat that under field conditions though

But then again...whores get paid to perform...LOL

Mark: I guess I didn't explain myself thoroughly. I don't have a problem if a gun writer or celebrity is open about the fact that they are in the employ of a particular product. Jim Shockey for example is the voice for Knight Muzzleloaders. But the show I was watching, made no reference to Weishun being on the TC payroll. Moreover, even Shockey was up front in saying that hunting buffalo with a muzzleloader bordered on the foolhardy.

The show I alluded to on the other hand gave the IMPRESSION that the TC was quite acceptable for buffalo. Heck Mark, it takes a LOT more than this to get me angry. I just look at it from an integrity point of view and more importantly, they serve as the genesis for this (for the most part) good discussion. jorge

Being a "compensated spokesman" is my dream job. Where do I sign up??

Ray, if old Larry is a whore you would have to be classified as a pimp. You are constantly pimping out your outfitters for what 10-15%. I agree he's a whore, but, more so he's a "dude" of the first degree. What kind of "dude" tucks his pants in his boots and dresses like a Flaming Roy Rogers.

Honestly Ray, I think you are as full of shit as anyone here. If a person were to go off of what you rant about, no one else can shoot straight or walk a mile. Hell, your the only true hunter ever existed. As much time as you spend on the computer where do you ever find time to hunt. Sorry Ray but I've read your shit for a year and you haven't impressed me yet. You should still be out tracking that perfectly shot deer with the barnes bullet that failed. Maybe your tracking skills aren't what they used to be.
Now about booking that buffalo hunt.

Filmit \
Take care,
Dave

It's called "capitalism" as when those with money and brains capitalize on those without one or the other or both.

Hell--this ain't news but I'll say it anyway--advertising, advertisers, "spokesmen," endorsers and shills and on and on are what make the western world go 'round.

After enough years--I think it usually takes until about age six for anyone with a room temperature IQ--you either grow a filter--or best of all, a Grade-A bullshit detector--or you don't.

If you don't, you constantly worry if you're really a man because you don't smoke the right cigarette, drive the right car, take the right "natural male enhancement" or use a TC Contender for dangerous game.

Or in some cases, some people see it, cry "Eureka" as if they have discovered a horrible and hitherto unknown sin and spend way too much time complaining about it. Might as well complain about the sun coming up in the morning or having to cut the grass.

There is an off button on every electronic entertainment device currently manufactured.

mrlexma,

You took the words right out of my mind.

BS is still BS, last time I checked...

Trying to get back on the subject. . .

Is a TC the best weapon for dangerous game? Jorge asks a good question. Clearly, it is not. And neither is a muzzleloader, or for that matter, a bow. However, we harvested a buffalo on one of our shows with a bow last season, and nobody questioned my ability to get off a second shot(maybe nobody was watching). I would say that a 375 H&H single shot is a better choice than a bow for HARVESTING a buffalo, but that is not the point.

We use different weapons based on time, opportunity, and of course, sponsor involvement. I have taken many cape buffalo with a rifle, and enjoyed the experiences immensely. My bow hunt was a special challenge, and it will always be a special memory for that reason. I think at least a small portion of that feeling can be communicated to a TV audience.

Larry Weishuhn is a knowledgable authority and a good hunter. He works for Thompson Center as a CO-HOST OF TC'S PROGRAM. To say that he was misleading in his presentation is unfair. It's a TC show; that fact wasn't disguised. He didn't say, by word or inference, that TC was the BEST choice, only an alternative choice. Of course he is "selling" the product. That is how ALL of us stay on the air. That is also the reason the public has a wide variety of hunting programs to view, or, choose not to view.

On all DG hunts, we are "backed up" by a, hopefully, competent PH. Even more so when using primitive weapons. Larry did make a good shot, the animal expired without incident, and we all were able to share in the experience. That is what outdoor TV is supposed to do.

I don't think it's unfair to say Larry or the show is misleading. They are deliberatly trying to show what their product can do and how effective it is. It is a veiled sponsorship and it is most certainly misleading to a newcomer to be led to believe that a TC would be a appropriate weapon for DG.

Well I guess I worry about that stuff, especially when the F-4 went away and i was drafted to fly the S-3 Viking. Still naval aviation and I still got to play, but let's face it, "top torpedo-bomber" is just not the same as "Top Gun." Bottom line is this was a topic for discussion and not to define one's deep held idiosyncracies . In any event, I STILL say that it was misleading. He should:

A. Be up front and say he is a compensated spokesman for TC

B. Say A TC is NOT the ideal weapon for DG.



jorge



PS: BGTV: No problems with your post( only with the use of the word "harvest" you guys on tv should really stop that, or taking a buff with a bow, hell, my hat's off to you, but the show was called Game Trails and I don't recall where the TC was mentioned.

Jorge:

The show is titled "Thompson Center's Game Trails", though it is couched that way only in the open and close, not in the body of the show.

You're right of course, we do say "harvest" too much. I guess it's a Pavlovian thing.

Jorge,

I have better shut my trap, I am craving to bow-hunt a buff or even a lion. Nobody is perfect.

I'm with Pat, I'd hunt naked for a free Buf hunt, but I don't know if I would be willing to use a TC.

I don't have a problem with sponsored shows, advertisement all that junk. What I have a problem with is that there are no "hunt on a budget" type shows. Something that walks a person without a bunch of money through it. For instance, how a person can do their Elk hunt on a shoestring. Something like Rick Steve's European series on public television, telling the cheap ways to travel in an area, locations to find what you are looking for etc.

I am a very colorful person, I think somebody should give me a show, we could call it "Big Red Hunts it All" or "A Big Red Adventure". It could all be non-guided hunts, where possible, and with my out of the safe rifles. The sponsors could be the affordable companies like Hi-Tech (I wear their boots already).

To answer the question, I don't think the TC is suitable, I wouldn't use it myself. I do hope though that people that can afford to go over there are able to think clearly about it and say, "well that seems stupid."

Red

Happy Thanksgiving

Thank you.
You took the word's right out of my mouth

Dart:
My experience with a tv crew was much different than yours. They had to get up earlier, come in later, and in most respects, worked harder at getting a mule deer than the rest of us in camp. Due to the rugged area, there didn't seem to be any funny stuff going on. The cameraman seemed to really make the hunt more difficult, as the operation was set up for the guide and hunter. They got their deer, and acted like regular guys around camp. Just one experience, but I had no complaints.

DDugan,

That is good to hear. Probably like any other business - good, bad and indifferent. The camera guy had a much harder job than the "talent".

I knew a guy, Ed Dugan, back in my skydiving days. His nickname was "Dead" Dugan. He survived two F-100 Super Sabre wrecks in Vietnam, and then was the first guy to survive a belly landing of a C-119 transport plane when he was flying fire suppression up in Alaska during the 1970's. Hell of a pilot, just snake bit in the mechanical department. He taught me to fly helicopters between jump plane loads on the weekends. What a fun time. Air Force jets during the week,Beech 18 (C-45) on the weekends, with a little Robinson R-22 egg beater time thrown in. Most important was the Gambel quail and Dove hunting at dawn. Sorry, off topic, the DDugan handle got me reminiscing.

JCN