quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
There is no doubt in my mind that a low powered scope is an advantage to locate point of aim on a dark coloured beat in amongst the typical brush. However, there is nothing like hunting big game with an open sigted big bore.
Just expect to miss some opportunities.

THIS!!

Open sights for me. Preferably with a double rifle.

I agree with Todd. If you want to hunt buffalo, use an iron sighted double. If you just want to shoot a buffalo without getting close enough to use iron sights, well, I rest my case......

If you REALLY want to hunt buffalo use a club Or strangle them Or stab them with you pocket knife

If you want to use something like a gun or something.........well I rest my case....

.

I've settled on a Swaro Z-6i in 1-6 as the best scope for the rifle I use for buffalo. Put the same scope (sans illuminated) on my go-to light rifle. I have a 1.5-5 Leupold I carry as a backup. All are on detachable rings and the rifles have irons.

When the Leupold was my main scope, I used to detach the scope for follow ups or in thick stuff. No more.

The 1-6 illuminated will work faster than irons in any situation. As others have said, it helps avoid obstructions and pick a precise aiming point. And you can reach out there if needed. But, if you are in thick stuff and close, crank it down to one power and turn on the lights and you have an Aimpoint. Faster than irons.

My first Buffalo hunt was with a 375H&H, scoped with a Leupold 1.5-5, and an opened sighted 458Lott. Best of both worlds IMO. Took the Buff with the 375 due to the distance of the shot. Scope helped. My wife usually carries one rifle (or a tracker) and I carry the other.

My next Buff hunt was with the same battery. I was hunting Lion also and took one bull as a trophy and two cows as bait for the Lion. Took all three with the open sighted Lott due to the distance of the shot.

Used these two rifles for more Buff hunting and it seemed to be the perfect solution: scoped 375 for a long shot and the open sighted 458 for closer work. I have since changed out the 1.5-5 to a 2.5-8 on the 375.

Then, I started hunting in Zambia with Andrew and switched to an open sighted 404 Jeffery and have taken two bulls so far. This year I return to hunt Buffalo again, and was going to take my 458 Lott/375 H&H pair once again, but due to a problem with the Lott, I return once more with the 404 Jeffery and a scoped 2.5-8 Leupold 35 Whelen. The Whelen will not be my first choice for a Buff, but it is legal in Zambia (actually, the minimum is 30-06), and I will take some 310 gr. rounds along with the 250s which I will use on Sable.

I have red fiber optic front sights on both the Lott and the Jeffery and I can see them quite well (I'm 67 years old) especially sitting on top of the vertical white line rear sight. I understand the utility of a scoped rifle and love having it along as a backup to my open sighted rifles for Buffalo. Take both if you can, and if you enjoy using irons. Just keep the open sighted big bore in your hands as you hunt, and only trade off to the scoped medium bore if you judge the shot too far for irons.

Just my 2 cents...

I've shot a few buffalo in Africa, a few in Australia, and two bison in the US, all with open sighted doubles. It was great fun coming close to the quarry. However, if I had been using a scoped rifle, I could have shot more.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
A friend hunted w9th us fir buffalo with open sights on his rifle.

Never managed to get a shot, eventually borrowed my scoped rifle and shot 2 buffalo in no time at all.

Next time he put a scope on his rifle!

The pleasure is the struggle

Actually, the real pleasure is whatever turns you on.

Some like to hunt with doubles, and open sights. And do not mind missing most of the opportunities.

Good for them.

Some of us just like to hunt, and shoot whatever we are hunting at whatever distance we get a chance at.

All this bullshit about getting close to buffalo because that is dangerous, is just plain bullshit.

I have been close to buffalo almost at touching distances several times, never had a problem.

Problem arises when you screw up your first shot, and try to get it when it finds the thickets bush in can get into.

I have done that too, and I had absolutely no problem braining it at very close distance.

Someone next to me with a double fired at the same time.

Hitting the buffalo in the knee as he turned towards us.

I am not blaming him at all. As in those situations one does not have time to aim.

It is an instinctive point and shoot, and hope for the best as you only get one shot.

"All this bullshit about getting close to buffalo because that is dangerous, is just plain bullshit."
Not sure it's about the danger but there's no denying the fact that geting close to big game or any game for that matter is far more exciting than sniping from afar

True.

But far too many seem to make so much fuss about “dangerous” game hunting.

It is true that certain animals can make a mess of you if you screw up - or even if you were not involved at all.

As I know some people have been charged by animals they never knew were actually there.

When I go hunting I do not go looking for danger.

I like to have a good hunt and come back home to my family in one piece - the same applies to everyone in my hunting party.

“I give a buffalo a choice how to die” is nothing but the words of a deranged idiot.

What else can it be when one has a rifle in his hands and approaches a half dead buffalo right in the open??

Saeed,
Yes, Caution is apart of it.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
"All this bullshit about getting close to buffalo because that is dangerous, is just plain bullshit."
Not sure it's about the danger but there's no denying the fact that geting close to big game or any game for that matter is far more exciting than sniping from afar

Yep!! Not about the "danger". It's about the struggle to get close, at least for me anyway.

My advice to the OP is to use a scope since it's your first buffalo hunt. That'll just about guarantee you'll get your buff if you're hunting in a good area with a good PH. Then next time out, you might want to make it a bit more challenging. Some don't. Some like that near "guarantee" of getting their buff.

I've shot all of my buff with open sights except for one ... a cow that I posted the video of here awhile back. I was carrying a double with the tracker carrying a scoped 375. I switched to the scoped rifle as she was in a large herd that had spotted us and was slowly making their exit across an open area. Wouldn't have been a big deal and we would have continued pursuit with the double except for the fact that this was a specific old cow with very distinct horns that had been spotted a few times and one cow remained on quota in the area being late October and the end of the season. We had just finished a tuskless hunt that morning in Makuti and were leaving to go up to Dande for Sable the following day so we had one afternoon to get this old cow in the salt.

So I swapped out rifles. What I distinctly remember was, well, there wasn't much to that hunt!!! I've often wondered about some of the guys who post here on AR about buffalo hunting not being very exciting ... more like shooting cattle. It's never been that way for me, except that one old cow shot with the scoped 375 that really didn't take much effort to get into a shooting position. That's just my take on it. No expectation most will agree.

An item not aggressively discussed when using a variable scope: Will the excitement of the moment cause you to concentrate so much on the game animal that you possibly will not have the scope set to an optimum for that circumstance.
It happened to me on a guided hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
"All this bullshit about getting close to buffalo because that is dangerous, is just plain bullshit."
Not sure it's about the danger but there's no denying the fact that geting close to big game or any game for that matter is far more exciting than sniping from afar

Yep!! Not about the "danger". It's about the struggle to get close, at least for me anyway.

My advice to the OP is to use a scope since it's your first buffalo hunt. That'll just about guarantee you'll get your buff if you're hunting in a good area with a good PH. Then next time out, you might want to make it a bit more challenging. Some don't. Some like that near "guarantee" of getting their buff.

I've shot all of my buff with open sights except for one ... a cow that I posted the video of here awhile back. I was carrying a double with the tracker carrying a scoped 375. I switched to the scoped rifle as she was in a large herd that had spotted us and was slowly making their exit across an open area. Wouldn't have been a big deal and we would have continued pursuit with the double except for the fact that this was a specific old cow with very distinct horns that had been spotted a few times and one cow remained on quota in the area being late October and the end of the season. We had just finished a tuskless hunt that morning in Makuti and were leaving to go up to Dande for Sable the following day so we had one afternoon to get this old cow in the salt.

So I swapped out rifles. What I distinctly remember was, well, there wasn't much to that hunt!!! I've often wondered about some of the guys who post here on AR about buffalo hunting not being very exciting ... more like shooting cattle. It's never been that way for me, except that one old cow shot with the scoped 375 that really didn't take much effort to get into a shooting position. That's just my take on it. No expectation most will agree.

Ok - I know many out there, except Todd, will disagree with me, but the trophy for me in buffalo hunting is the hunt itself. I certainly do not need anything else hanging on the wall! I am taking my tenth safari next week, and I will be hunting buffalo with a vintage Jeffery iron sighted double rifle in .475 No. 2 Jeffery NE. This rifle previously belonged to PH Owain Lewis and to "Pops" Du Toit (mentioned in Ian Neychens book "Months of the Sun") before that. With this iron sighted double, I feel like I am hunting with a piece of African history. In all of my previous hunts, I could have taken a much larger buffalo much earlier in the hunt had I been using a scoped rifle - and by doing so I would have missed 75% of the genuine excitement of getting close and having the buffalo look me in the eye like I owed them money. I do not look down on anyone who hunts buffalo with a scoped rifle for any reason - to each his own. I just prefer getting close with an iron sighted double.

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
"All this bullshit about getting close to buffalo because that is dangerous, is just plain bullshit."
Not sure it's about the danger but there's no denying the fact that geting close to big game or any game for that matter is far more exciting than sniping from afar

Yep!! Not about the "danger". It's about the struggle to get close, at least for me anyway.

My advice to the OP is to use a scope since it's your first buffalo hunt. That'll just about guarantee you'll get your buff if you're hunting in a good area with a good PH. Then next time out, you might want to make it a bit more challenging. Some don't. Some like that near "guarantee" of getting their buff.

I've shot all of my buff with open sights except for one ... a cow that I posted the video of here awhile back. I was carrying a double with the tracker carrying a scoped 375. I switched to the scoped rifle as she was in a large herd that had spotted us and was slowly making their exit across an open area. Wouldn't have been a big deal and we would have continued pursuit with the double except for the fact that this was a specific old cow with very distinct horns that had been spotted a few times and one cow remained on quota in the area being late October and the end of the season. We had just finished a tuskless hunt that morning in Makuti and were leaving to go up to Dande for Sable the following day so we had one afternoon to get this old cow in the salt.

So I swapped out rifles. What I distinctly remember was, well, there wasn't much to that hunt!!! I've often wondered about some of the guys who post here on AR about buffalo hunting not being very exciting ... more like shooting cattle. It's never been that way for me, except that one old cow shot with the scoped 375 that really didn't take much effort to get into a shooting position. That's just my take on it. No expectation most will agree.

Ok - I know many out there, except Todd, will disagree with me, but the trophy for me in buffalo hunting is the hunt itself. I certainly do not need anything else hanging on the wall! I am taking my tenth safari next week, and I will be hunting buffalo with a vintage Jeffery iron sighted double rifle in .475 No. 2 Jeffery NE. This rifle previously belonged to PH Owain Lewis and to "Pops" Du Toit (mentioned in Ian Neychens book "Months of the Sun") before that. With this iron sighted double, I feel like I am hunting with a piece of African history. In all of my previous hunts, I could have taken a much larger buffalo much earlier in the hunt had I been using a scoped rifle - and by doing so I would have missed 75% of the genuine excitement of getting close and having the buffalo look me in the eye like I owed them money. I do not look down on anyone who hunts buffalo with a scoped rifle for any reason - to each his own. I just prefer getting close with an iron sighted double.

Well said, Subsailor.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74: I am taking my tenth safari next week, and I will be hunting buffalo with a vintage Jeffery iron sighted double rifle in .475 No. 2 Jeffery NE. This rifle previously belonged to PH Owain Lewis and to "Pops" Du Toit (mentioned in Ian Neychens book "Months of the Sun") before that. With this iron sighted double, I feel like I am hunting with a piece of African history. In all of my previous hunts, I could have taken a much larger buffalo much earlier in the hunt had I been using a scoped rifle - and by doing so I would have missed 75% of the genuine excitement of getting close...

Sounds perfect, hope you Sir have a fantastic time!

NOt all buffalo are shot at close range, more than a few are shot out to maybe 200 or so yards..They are a big target however..Ive used irons more than most, on both a double rifle and a bolt gun..You have options and that depends on your skill and ability and experience and only you should make that judgement..

My advise for what its worth for a first time Cape buffalo hunter would be a bolt action in 375, 416 or such with a 3x fixed Leupold scope and Talley QD rings and bases..Use the scope as a primary sight. If a bull gets in the thick stuff hurt, then remove the scope and go with your iron sights,but in fact the 3X or even a 1.2x5 will get your bull killed 99% of the time..
Another option is the receiver sight, or better yet IMO, a Talley QD peep that you can carry in your pocket or cartridge belt, and if needed you slip the scope off and the Talley peep on. Any thought of a charge would be the peep or shallow V iroons with me, but many of todays hunters have never used irons in which case the low power scope would be the wise choice, and I wouldn't consider a variable under such circumstances.This last option has been my favorite for a number of years..

Just options not suggestions, the rest has to be your preference..

quote:

Talley QDs that you can carry in your pocket and slip the scope off and the Talley peep on.

"
have the Talley QD scope and peep for one of my doubles, which still leaves the express sights for easy shots under 50 yards.
Both my lever action big bores have choice of peep or folding barrel sight.
The latter is great for large game in good light. The peeps come into their own at longer distances. I usually stop hunting big game when it gets dark.

Man, I feel like the odd man out......

I hunt buffalo to kill buffalo, I want the best one I can get. I want to kill it with my rifle, my loads, my way. Close if need be, further if need be, a true trophy. I've seen a whole lot of battle scared old 34" inch Duggan bulls, I could have taken several, not for me. A few weeks ago a crusty old bull, horns like a blue wildebeest, could killed him several times, no thanks. I want bosses, spread, drop. The trophy is the trophy, all buffalo hunts are good, they are just better with a really nice head at the end.......

Wax poetic all you want, hunting is hunting.

I guess I'm just screwed up or something.

Get a Blaser r-8.

Get quick detach mounts for aimooint, regular scope and get a barrel with iron sights.

You will be able to swap any of the three options in under 1 minute.

I would use a scope. Just cause I don’t trust myself with iron sights.

Besides my Cape buffalo shooting has been like shooting a rancher’s cattle - totally boring

Mike

Like fly fishing. Best leave the spin gear at home.
Same with the scope

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
Man, I feel like the odd man out......

I hunt buffalo to kill buffalo.

Wax poetic all you want, hunting is hunting.

I climbed mountains and reached the summit's. However, the summit was far from the most important part of the climb for me.
Same go's with the kill in hunting, for me anyway

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
Man, I feel like the odd man out......

I hunt buffalo to kill buffalo, I want the best one I can get. I want to kill it with my rifle, my loads, my way. Close if need be, further if need be, a true trophy. I've seen a whole lot of battle scared old 34" inch Duggan bulls, I could have taken several, not for me. A few weeks ago a crusty old bull, horns like a blue wildebeest, could killed him several times, no thanks. I want bosses, spread, drop. The trophy is the trophy, all buffalo hunts are good, they are just better with a really nice head at the end.......

Wax poetic all you want, hunting is hunting.

I guess I'm just screwed up or something.

If I make it over again, I will be looking for a scum cap! But if something in the mid 40's walks by with a solid boss...

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Get a Blaser r-8.

Get quick detach mounts for aimooint, regular scope and get a barrel with iron sights.

You will be able to swap any of the three options in under 1 minute.

I would use a scope. Just cause I don’t trust myself with iron sights.

Besides my Cape buffalo shooting has been like shooting a rancher’s cattle - totally boring

Mike

There two things that will make me give hunting buffalo!

For ever!

Having to hunt with Mark Sullivan, or use a Blaser!

Taking up climbing Mount Everest bare foot is less trying!

Saeed,
Nothing wrong with a Blaser!

So long as it's not one of their doubles

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Get a Blaser r-8.

Get quick detach mounts for aimooint, regular scope and get a barrel with iron sights.

You will be able to swap any of the three options in under 1 minute.

I would use a scope. Just cause I don’t trust myself with iron sights.

Besides my Cape buffalo shooting has been like shooting a rancher’s cattle - totally boring

Mike

There two things that will make me give hunting buffalo!

For ever!

Having to hunt with Mark Sullivan, or use a Blaser!

Taking up climbing Mount Everest bare foot is less trying!

I am building you one

Mike

I've shot buffalo with open sights on my Mauser but feel more at home with a scope for the reasons others have mentioned. Fitted a Single Point occluded gun sight (the first red dot type sight made) to my Mauser on return from the buffalo hunt and shot deer and goats with the 404. Then put a Leupold EER pistol scope on in place of the single point. Much more usable than open sights, in fact was carrying the 404 last night when hunting deer and could pick up objects with the 2X scope right up until almost darkness, won't do that with open sights.

The green dot Single Point I had was very good for fast shooting and worked especially well in bush shooting.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to comment.

Thanks

I prefer using open sights but keep the scope on with detachable mounts for further shots. It’s nice to have an option. It’s more enjoyable seeing the animal after the shot instead of loosing it with the recoil

When I had my double built, Kebco recommended a mount for a doctor optic red dot. I said sure, but I want to hunt open sights. 5 years later, the open sights became very blurry without glasses, but with glasses the animal is blurry. You get the point. I placed a red dot on the double and to me it is the best of both worlds. But no doubt, it is all personal preference

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The thrill of shooting a buff with a scope is peanuts compared to the thrill of learning to shoot with open sights.

I have used both a .375 scoped rifle and a .450-400 double rifle and agree with what shoot away says. The satisfaction of taking African game with an open sighted double gun is far more satisfying to me. That being said I am taking both to Zambia next month as this will be new territory. I will carry the double gun and will try to take buff and roan with it. I don't mind passing up shots or coming home empty handed these days.

I guess I'm in JTEX's camp. If I go to shoot a buffalo I want to shoot a descent buffalo. If the shot comes at very close range as it has for me a couple of times that's great but if the buffalo we want is 150 yards I'm going to take that shot too. Next year I'm returning to Alaska for brown bear. If the shot is 60 yards as my first bear was I'll be happy but once again if it's 100+ I'll be just as happy as I've come to shoot the bear. Each to his own. I just don't care for the implication that you have not hunted unless you can smell the animals breath. Hunters new to safari get that impression and I think it often taints their hunt.

My 2 cents!

Mark

Me too. I am in the same camp as Mark, Saeed and JTEX. I have hunted buffalo across Africa, 25 safaris in 11 countries and buffalo or multiple buffalo have been on the menu most of the hunts. As I look around at my trophies I remember the hunt more than the gun I took them with. I am hunting Masailand next year with 2 buff on license and the Karamoja region of Uganda in 2020 for as many buff as UWS will allow me, what rifle I take will fit the terrain and other species on license.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy fine firearms as much, if not more than the next guy and have shot buff with off-the shelf rifles, fine custom rifles and London best doubles, even borrowed rifles, but in the end, it's usually something about the hunt or the particular buffalo that makes a trophy memorable.

If it were my first buffalo or I was hunting for a really big buff, I would do what I needed to turn the odds in my favor. If I hunted an area known for lots of buff or end of the year quota clean-up hunt, my double would probably get the nod...

But that's just me, and there is an ass for every saddle...

As far as the capability of irons goes, if your sighted in properly with irons you can hold on a buffs back and drop one in the kill zone at 300 yards..I do this on targets often enough to be content..My longest shot on buff was with a 416 Rem and irons at 260 lazered yards, another at 225 yards with a 3X Leupold scope, same rifle..I never felt at a disadvantage with irons hunting Buffalo, or any of the large animals. It can be somewhat of a factor hunting the smaller plainsgame.

Im neither pro or con on scope vs. irons, its not even a question with me. I use both and enjoy both..I like the feel of a iron sighted gun and they carry so well, and I get an additional shot of adreline hunting with irons just like my forefathers well dad and grandpaw for that matter..I wouldn't be without the quick change option, and going in after a wounded animal? give me irons every time, peep or shallow V..Neither one suits me for hunting all species with one rifle so set up, I like a scope under many circumstances..One thing for sure I will be the one to make that choice..

for those with eyesight problems or those without iron sight training or background, use a scope, no question about it.

I've never hunted DG though I did plan a hunt and prepare with 416 Rigby. Now I own a 470 NE.

For me, getting close would be the key. Part of the thrill of the hunt.

If hunting deer or elk, yes I would want a scope rifle and be sure of the shot at any range. I have shot deer at 10 meters and 325 meters. Not for buffalo.

With buffalo on a concession known for virtually 100% success and trackers, PH etc, I would not worry about missed opportunities.

For Buffalo, hippo & elephant I would use a a scoped bolt rifle like my CZ416 Rigby but I would much rather use the 470NE at close range with open sights.

Agree, Ray.

Shot traditional irons a lot, but my old eyes make that hard. Fortunately, the Talley peep is great. Shot competition for years with a rear peep, but unfortunately a lot of hunters may not be used to one.

Never thought I'd shoot a buffalo at over 200 yards, but did last year. Hunting in the mountains, sometimes, you just can't get closer. Couldn't do it without a good scope. Worked out extremely well, but not sure I'd do it again.

Still like a variable scope with good glass and a true 1X on the low end. Illuminated is ideal. If the scope is not a true 1X, it's hard to keep both eyes open, which you should.

quote:

When I had my double built, Kebco recommended a mount for a doctor optic red dot. I said sure, but I want to hunt open sights. 5 years later, the open sights became very blurry without glasses, but with glasses the animal is blurry.

The die-hards don't realize or don't want to accept this fact, that there is a point in time when tired eyes cannot line up and keep 3 objects in focus; yet wonder why they ended up with a gut-shot Buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

When I had my double built, Kebco recommended a mount for a doctor optic red dot. I said sure, but I want to hunt open sights. 5 years later, the open sights became very blurry without glasses, but with glasses the animal is blurry.

The die-hards don't realize or don't want to accept this fact, that there is a point in time when tired eyes cannot line up and keep 3 objects in focus; yet wonder why they ended up with a gut-shot Buffalo.

Maybe your getting too old and tired and cant get your clients in close enough to see clearly for a good shot

quote:

Maybe your getting too old and tired and cant get your clients in close enough to see clearly for a good shot

I've sorted mine out - its theirs that worries me and my name is not Mark Sullivan.

I would like to see more reference to dot sights, e.g. hear from folks who have used them.

I have shot them on a couple of heavies on the range for an article in AH, and something like an Eotech seems like a no-brainer, but they're not commonly used. Why?

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
A red dot is another option. Easy and fast to acquire.

quote:

Originally posted by blackdogsrule:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The thrill of shooting a buff with a scope is peanuts compared to the thrill of learning to shoot with open sights.

I have used both a .375 scoped rifle and a .450-400 double rifle and agree with what shoot away says. The satisfaction of taking African game with an open sighted double gun is far more satisfying to me. That being said I am taking both to Zambia next month as this will be new territory. I will carry the double gun and will try to take buff and roan with it. I don't mind passing up shots or coming home empty handed these days.

Less trophy fees and taxidermy too.

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74: I am taking my tenth safari next week, and I will be hunting buffalo with a vintage Jeffery iron sighted double rifle in .475 No. 2 Jeffery NE. This rifle previously belonged to PH Owain Lewis and to "Pops" Du Toit (mentioned in Ian Neychens book "Months of the Sun") before that. With this iron sighted double, I feel like I am hunting with a piece of African history. In all of my previous hunts, I could have taken a much larger buffalo much earlier in the hunt had I been using a scoped rifle - and by doing so I would have missed 75% of the genuine excitement of getting close...

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Sounds perfect, hope you Sir have a fantastic time!

I agree 100 %. I will not own a big bore rifle of any type that is not fitted with quality iron sights. All my bolt and single shot rifles from 375H&H up are fitted with irons, and quick disconnect scopes. That being said I have developed Macular degeneration in my right eye, and now must fit all my doubles with low powered scopes with bottom power in the one power up to about five power, or red dot sights in quick detach bases.
Like anyone else I can shoot buffalo at longer range, but like Subsailor, and Todd, I like seeing how close I can get because that, to me, is the whole idea of HUNTING, not just the shooting.

The method anyone takes to do his/her hunting is their business, and as long as it is legal fine by me.

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