Pretty cool video here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ture=player_embedded

No chance that I'd see this video.
It's OK with cats shooting, but I can't stand a cat being destroyed for real either by croc, buff, ele, lion......
The worst in the world for me is lion cubs being killed when the pride is taken over by a new lion.
I'd be nauseous for a couple of days. Only child abuse can make me this sick.
Am I alone suffering from this?

quote:

Originally posted by jbderunz:
No chance that I'd see this video.
It's OK with cats shooting, but I can't stand a cat being destroyed for real either by croc, buff, ele, lion......
The worst in the world for me is lion cubs being killed when the pride is taken over by a new lion.
I'd be nauseous for a couple of days. Only child abuse can make me this sick.
Am I alone suffering from this?

+1 Unfortunately I watched. Nature at its rawest. jc

Great video, you guys are kinda melodramatic, no? What's the difference between this and any other animal being killed?

A pair of nomads killing a pride male? That big black maned sure looked like a brute!

That was interesting, and yes ruthless, but no different than a buffalo getting torn apart. It's what I would do if I thought someone was going to hurt my cubs.

Sorry man, but I can't draw the comparative to watching nature in action to child abuse.

I'm with Jean B. on this one. I'll pass.

Dutch

Nothing really unsetting or horrible seen a lot worse.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Nothing really unsetting or horrible seen a lot worse.

I agree. Mother Nature is ruthless b!tch sometimes!!!

May I say respectfully that if this upsets you then a visit to Africa for the purpose of viewing wildlife and hunting is probably something that you should avoid. Very, very few male lions die a natural death in old age, being killed by another male is probably the most "natural" death they die

That was quite a quick and merciful death compared to what happens in the wild on a daily basis.

Sorry, not pretty or cool, or great entertainment.

Is it reality, sure.

Certainly not "child abuse" bad.

This didn't make me sick or anything, but the fact that we can recognize it as inhumane (actually it is inhumane by definition) and not enjoy it makes us human. Seeing some helpless critter die painfully (inhumanely) will cause an emotional reaction; if it is not one of at least distaste, you better go check yourself at the local shrink's office. You are not a mindless beast.

On the other hand, while not pleasant, we should be able to observe it and not be "sickened" by it. Having an emotional reaction is normal. Claiming that it is similar to deliberate cruelty to a human innocent (ie child abuse) is asinine.

That's Africa. Has been since before the written word. Not always pretty and certainly not Disney.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
That's Africa. Has been since before the written word. Not always pretty and certainly not Disney.

+1- No, not pretty, plain raw fact as designed and dictated by nature. I do hope that it can continue for the next 10,000 years and more.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Sorry, not pretty or cool, or great entertainment.

Is it reality, sure.

Certainly not "child abuse" bad.

This didn't make me sick or anything, but the fact that we can recognize it as inhumane (actually it is inhumane by definition) and not enjoy it makes us human. Seeing some helpless critter die painfully (inhumanely) will cause an emotional reaction; if it is not one of at least distaste, you better go check yourself at the local shrink's office. You are not a mindless beast.

On the other hand, while not pleasant, we should be able to observe it and not be "sickened" by it. Having an emotional reaction is normal. Claiming that it is similar to deliberate cruelty to a human innocent (ie child abuse) is asinine.

What's cool is to observe their natural behavior to gain a better understanding and appreciation for the life they live. From the sounds of it that was a rare sight and I think it was great that it was video'd so that people can understand why hunting is good for the population.

Look at the video of the Orca killing the great white off the coast of California a few years ago. That was cool footage and a lot of good came from that. It is what it is. Sorry a great white had to die but the knowledge that was gained from that was invaluable

So, I thought it was pretty cool to see the pride dynamics. Sorry if the word "cool" offended some of you gals

It is what it is. I would have liked to have seen the battle leading up to this final scene. We can choose to watch, or not.

Years ago I was at Pilanesberg in the RSA and drove up on female rhino with a very small calf. A big male was nearby. We watched them do what they do. They were all seemingly feeding calmly. The big bull casually fed towards the calf, and the female moved in between them. The bull fed around the cow, and she moved back between him and the calf, almost knocking the calf over. We watched this chess match repeated over and over. The bull appeared to want to eliminate the calf to get the cow back in heat. She wasn't having any of it. we decided not to hang around for the end-game. I would like to think she won.

Mother Nature is a wonderful thing. When we intervene, we usually get unintended consequences. I put up a bird feeder a few months ago. The birds seem to appreciate it, as do the hawks. That wasn't my intent, but watching a Cooper's Hawk nail a sparrow out of the air about five feet from the feeder was certainly fascinating.

Life in the country...

Scriptus:

Agreed, and we can only hope, but I wonder if it will continue for the next 100 years.

IF this bothers you, you couldn't handle seeing coyotes eating the hams off a cow and the calf she was having at the time.
Nor the half eaten calves many ranchers find most with lots of ground torn up from them trying to get away.

This is just Mother Nature at work everyday.
George

And there is a reason a cowboy shoots a horse with a broken leg.

Why do most cowboys want to shoot any coyotes or wolves? I don't think its all dollars and cents, although that plays a role. It is revulsion at what they do to the cattle to some extent.

It is the wild, it is normal.

But I have concerns about folks who think that it is pleasurable to watch a slow death. If I have a buff (or deer, or duck) down I will shoot it again until it is not moving. Its part of how a human acts, usually.

I don't hold it against the lions that killed the other one. That's their nature. I too hope that it can be preserved in the wild. I just don't see how stating it is great to watch it helps hunters. Most uncommitted folks seeing this post would probably think hunters are psychopaths if we think this is good entertainment, even if they realize it is natural.

If I am reading the OP right, it should have been labeled interesting. That it is. As the good Col. Cooper said, use the right word.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Scriptus:

Agreed, and we can only hope, but I wonder if it will continue for the next 100 years.

Yup, I hear you, I did say hope though.

Most of the animals we hunt die a much more humane death if shot by a hunter. If they are not, they have a far different fate.

Whether that is an old elephant bull that dies of what is essentially starvation, a buffalo eaten by lions, or an old lion dragged down by hyenas. Those are the facts.

The Disney, mainstream media, don't want to recognize that and choose to try to indoctrinate the uneducated public with "documentaries" of animals with names. Even the "named" animals will become nothing more than protein for others at some point. As will we all.

Hard to watch, but instructive.

Nature is cruel.

Do we get the same emotive response from watching this as we would get from watching two insects attacking and killing each other in a territorial dispute?

Cripes, don't these lions know that they are endangered and soon to be extinct? You would think they would consider this before a senseless killing.

1. Death of an Apex Predator;
2. Killed by its own...

...it reflects and reminds me of our own ways of getting around...

A luxury of choice?
Seems those lions were lack of...how about we?

Do we have it...the choice I mean?

No JB you are not alone in this

It's all about genetic dominance.

I viewed a young male lion chased and bit through the head by the prided male. He died within a half-hour. I shot alot of game including lion. Doesn't mean I want to watch this type of film as I've seen it in the wild and, while instructive, not something I'll spend my time on.

I have also been shot at and missed and shit on and hit. Dealt with plenty of death by many different means accidental and otherwise. Doesn't mean I want to view it or relive it. Not afraid of it, just my choice.

As to whether I avoid hunting or Africa because I choose not to watch it doesn't require and explanation from me. Ludicrous comment.

Dutch

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Great video, you guys are kinda melodramatic, no? What's the difference between this and any other animal being killed?

That is a very good question. I'm not sure why seeing this lion being killed bothered me more than seeing a similar scene with a buffalo or antelope being killed but it definitely did bother me more. I wonder if it had something to do with my perception that the victim knew exactly what was happening.

I watched it several times and I am still fascinated that I am mildly repulsed by the whole thing. I think I now have a better understanding of why the antis are so repulsed by hunting of the big cats.

I killed a lion(and I would do so again) but watching two lions doing it the "natural" way is hard to watch.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Sorry, not pretty or cool, or great entertainment.

Is it reality, sure.

Certainly not "child abuse" bad.

This didn't make me sick or anything, but the fact that we can recognize it as inhumane (actually it is inhumane by definition) and not enjoy it makes us human. Seeing some helpless critter die painfully (inhumanely) will cause an emotional reaction; if it is not one of at least distaste, you better go check yourself at the local shrink's office. You are not a mindless beast.

On the other hand, while not pleasant, we should be able to observe it and not be "sickened" by it. Having an emotional reaction is normal. Claiming that it is similar to deliberate cruelty to a human innocent (ie child abuse) is asinine.

Very well put.

Armbar.

My reaction, being sick when seeing a lion or leopard destroyed, is weird but it’s the truth. Not as much of child abuse for sure. Most of the time, I don’t flinch with gory scenes or appalling pictures, I have been shot at, I have been in close shaves, but none the less, I have a soft spot for lion and leopard. I have hunted lion and leopards, and even eaten them. I don’t mind of a clean or not so clean killing of them by a hunter. I don’t give a damn for others animal, even predators like a wolf or a bear. Just for lion and leopard. Perhaps because they are precious animals that could become scarce??????? Perhaps because I prefer them hunted that destroyed to hunter’s detriment?????? Perhaps because they are top predators and supposed to be winners???? Perhaps because I feel it a huge waste
But I agree it’s as the nature goes. It’s a fairly quick death, compared to the slow death of most animals getting old and sick, often eaten alive by scavengers or low end predators.
This fight in the videocan upgrade the genes pool or not. Should the male be an immature, he dies because of his young age, not of a lack in his genes. Not fair, but nature is unfair.
What we must admire is the extreme courage of these animals, fighting with the knowledge that they’ll get injured, crippled or killed.
Nature seems wrong (according to our biased human perception) in the vain killing of cubs for a male having sex and extending his progeny. This process may not upgrade the genes pool.

JB,

But that's the way it is and has been forever. It's the way it always will be until these animals are relegated to zoos. None of us want that.

As with some of the others. I did not enjoy the video and don't intend to see it more than once.

I'd guess most of us take game in a similar fashion. The intent or effort is to make a precise and lethal shot, wounded game is quickly followed up and dispatched. A winged pheasant or duck is retrieved and its neck wrung, a wounded deer is tracked and finished. I think its rare and very unusual to find a modern sportsman that doesn't intentionally try to limit the quarry's suffering. We're not animals.

The lions in the video were doing what lions do and that's fine by me. I have no interest in eating my prey to death and have no interest in observing it being done either.

You may not want to watch; it's not pleasant. However, I think turning a blind eye is a mistake and plays into the hands of those who are against all we should stand for.

Re; Lions........Looks like a completely healthy functioning part-process of nature at work,..

probably wise to put aside ones likes or dislikes of a situation, and put efforts into understanding a situation.

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
Look at the video of the Orca killing the great white off the coast of California a few years ago.
That was cool footage and a lot of good came from that. ...It is what it is.

At the other end of their behavioural spectrum, I recall Killer whales gently pushing baby seals back onto the shore-beach in Argentina.
[after feasting-having their fill on some unlucky baby seals... ]

Maybe this situation should be considered by the "Lion Study Folks"? Seems it's not just the human hunters that are taking out the "Young Lion". Don't know if this factor is/has been considered or not? Maybe worth considering?

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter
R8 Blaser
DRSS