How many of you feel it is important to have your dangerous and/or plains game rifles as a matched set, say all/both Model 70s or CZs or Rugers? I would think that having the same controls and feel to the rifles would make operation more automatic under stress or quick shooting.

Do you find that having one bolt rifle and one double rifle for hunting strictly dangerous game is helpful or harmful? They feel and operate completely differently. Could a tense situation make you fumble with operation if you 'forget' for a moment what's in your hands?

I'm thinking that a matching set of rifles for a hunt would be the better way to go. That way, everything is the same (except for caliber), and you will know all there is to know about the gun, regardless of which one you are holding.

The reason for this question is I'm looking at the Model 70 rifle, since it is available in 300 WinMag, 338 WinMag, 375 H&H, and 416 RemMag. But, I'm starting to question the quality of the Winchester line after seeing what I saw at the shop this weekend (see related post on Model 70 Quality). Is it that important to have matching rifles, or do you not feel it is a problem? I have hunted with just about every brand of rifle for small game and deer, but those times have not been expensive or stressful. I'd hate to botch a shot because I missed flipping the safety off or some other dumb mistake due to a small difference in rifle operation between brands.

Captain, I don't believe in potluck or continual experimentation. I also believe that success is very much infatuated with the well-prepared. So I don't take anything for granted, nor do I leave anything to chance if I can help it.

So to answer your qustion, my answer is yes, I do believe in matched pairs, and mine is not a philosophical answer -- I follow it by putting into practice what I preach.

I have a set of refined custom hunting rifles in various calibers based on Model 70 actions, and I hunt with these rifles almost exclusively. They have the same actions, the same stocks, the same custom bolt release and bottommetal, and scopes are mounted to the same height above the bore, and the eye-relief of the scopes is set the same as well. The balance of these rifles is the same, regardless of caliber or barrel contour. The only real difference is weight, for example the 375 H&H weighs about a pound more than the 338 Win. Mag.

So this season I'm teaming from this set of rifles a 300 Win. Mag. with a 416 Rem. Mag., and both of those rifles are as familiar to me as my office desk, ten year-old Russell Imperials, and my Ford F-350 truck.

I like it that way..........

AD

Captain,

Ideally as Allen has said it make very good sense to have both rifles as identical as possible with an extra sighted in scope for each.

I think in reality most of us rifle loonies are a liitle less organized than Allen and probably have bought our rifles one at time. In my case that means even thought I own several custom or semi custom rifles none of them are exact mirror images of eachother.

To answer your question If I was buying a pair of rifles with the specific plan to take them on safari I definitely would buy 2 exactly alike.

Regards,

Mark

I think it depends on your degree of familiarity with your rifles ... how much you handle and shoot them.

I shoot a fair amount and usually have no difficulties with changing from one to another.

Last year, by happenstance, I did take two CZ550's to RSA. They differed in caliber (9,3x62 and .416 Rigby), size, and scope mount arrangement. All of the controls are identical. Worked very well ... especially in an unfamiliar environment.

My .375 is a Model 70.
My 30-06 is a Model 70.
Anything else I buy will be on a M70 action.
Dave

I have a Model 70 in 300 WinMag, in 375 H&H and I just bought a 404 Jeffery based on a Model 70 action. Outside of those rifles I also own a CZ 550 Magnum in .416 Rigby. If there were a Model 70 in 416 Rigby I probably would have bought it to remain with the same familiar controls, trigger, feel, etc. I also suscribe to the idea of getting to know one system well. In a panic, you always revert to the reflexes learned in your training.

Captain!

Whether you use the same or different action types really depends upon your ability to use different action types interchangably. I have used semi-auto, side X side and O/U shotguns, some with double and others with single triggers. Some with thumb safetys others with safetys in front of or behind the trigger gaurd. I haven't had any problems except when using a pump shotgun. Kept forgetting to pump it.

For elephant and buffalo I have used a 458 Lott bolt and a double 465 H&H and have never had any problems in a tense situation in working the actions. Two years ago I changed rifles every day. I do a lot of dry firing and work the action many many times in preparing for the hunt.

What ever way you go the most important factor is your confidence to do what needs to be done. So, chose wisely!

465H&H

matched pairs are good and sometimes not so good. I use two sets, one is a perfectly matched pair of dakotas, and the other is a pair of beretta o/u's. While it is nice to pick up one or the other, you have to make sure which one is which. It's rather embarassing to go out with you rifle and ammo, only to find out you picked up the wrong one. Don't laugh its happened. On my dakotas (375 & 416) don allen matched the two so perfectly that I finally scoped the two different to make picking up the right one easier. Once again as has been said, if you shoot enough, the matched pair have little meaning. That said I really enjoy them, but having them does not make up for practice, pratice, pratice.

I took 3 Win 70's in .375 equally equipped to Zim for my sons and I. I did the same with 2 .300 Win Mags. One of the smarter things we did. Anyone of 4 shooters had a gun that fit and was rigged exactly the same.

Practice a lot and go.

I have a "matched" pair of Dakotas from the time they were really custom/semi-custom rather than semi-custom/factory with lots of options. I had them made with the idea that my regular all rounder NA deer, etc rifle would be pretty similar to the all rounder African rifle. Especially LOP, comb height, safeties and triggers.

I also have a matched pair of SxS shotguns with two triggers and several other SxS's with similar LOP, cast and drop measurements and double triggers. I bought my double rifle used but with the shotgun measurements in mind.

I will put the practice equals performance to test when I leave for Zim in two weeks.

JPK

In my opinion, conceptually it's a good idea to have the same operating system for all your rifles. That said, in practical terms we deal with multiple operating systems every day in our ordinary lives. It's been my experiences that trained reflexes are, to a large extent, contextual. For example, a bus driver uses his personal vehicle to get to work but I suspect doesn't confuse one operating system with the other in emergencies; rather, his trained reflexes apply the correct actions within the context of the operating system he's manipulating at the moment.

This assumes a high level of familiarity with each system under consideration. If one is very familiar with one system and is new to another, then yes, it is quite likely that if using the less familiar system under duress one would revert to the training of longer duration. If equally competent with all systems, however, I suspect that one's training will default correctly to the system at hand.

So should I get a bolt action shotgun for duck hunting, or a double rifle for prarie dog hunting?

Dear 500grains,
Not needed. I did the "duplicate thing" to minimize adjustments and because I was far away from home and a gunsmith.

I like variety and use a several types of rifles and shotguns. My favorites are pumps.

After 2 trips across the pond to hunt, I am comfortable with whatever I practiced with. Further, if the PH's have my type of gun or something close, I won't take my own gun next time.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
So should I get a bolt action shotgun for duck hunting, or a double rifle for prarie dog hunting?

Saw a bolt action 16Ga in a pawn shop yesterday
for $80.00. Want me to pick it up for you?

DAn the hell with the bolt but get the Super Black Eagle...Been shooting one for almost 10 years...

As for a matched pairs sounds great but to many financially impossible...I shoot all my rifles and practice with them on groundhogs...Spot and stalk...Shoot all on range and I hunt with all of them... Even carried my first African rifle for black bear in Pa. all were afraid to shoot it...
Wht I am saying is that I shoot all and know them all...

Mike

I guess you could call my next African battery a "matched pair", although the rifles hardly qualify in the "custom gun" sense of the expression. In fact, by far the overwhelming part of my hunting is done with these rifles - albeit with differing calibers matching the game at hand. There is also a significant element of range training with the same action, trigger and weight distribution (again with a different caliber). Familiarity with a system certainly helps make operation automatic in the field.

A pair of synthetic stocked R93s in .30-06 and .375 H&H is hardly the stuff to make the headlines in terms of exotic calibers, custom workmanship or beauty. But they work for me.
- mike

I really don't think you will find many folks who are as organized as Allen Day, in any field, and certainly not amoung hunters, and shooters. Rarely will you find a shooter other than compitition shooters, or Extreme range shooters, who are as anal, and single minded about their firearms. The one other place is where dangerous game is to be the target.

Most of us are either hunters first, and shooters second, and vice-versa. A few are equally ballanced between the two persuits, being both.

I have always loved hunting, and firearms, and bows&arrows equally. Consequently, I have hunted all sorts of game from sparrows with a BB gun to dangerous game of Alaska, and Africa, with every kind of weapon known to man,from bow to double rifle, at one time or other. I have no problem getting into the weapon I'm useing at the time.

With all the mouth rattle above, it all boils down to the fact that I believe there is a benefit to haveing "TWO" rifles that compliment each other when hunting a mixed bag, as one does in Africa. They do not have to be the same type of action, or caliber. In fact, they shouldn't be the same chambering in most cases. The hunt where both dangerous game and plains game are hunted they should be chambered very differently, yet both be capable of takeing the meanest beast in the bush, yet be better at one job than the other, both should be able to do a passable job for either. I often use both bolt, and Double rifle on the same hunt, in Africa. But I'm able to tell the difference, even when under attack, and seem to simply use them properly, instinctively! I do have two pairs of rifles that are the same type, and even the same brand, but chambered for different cartridges, with both being capable of doing both jobs. Pair #1 is a pair of Marl-X Whitworth rifles, one chambered for 375 H&H, and the other a 458 LOTT, re-chambered from a 458 Win Mag. Both have Luepold 1.5-5X20 scopes in Warne QD rings and bases, and equipt with express sights. #2 is a pair of Merkel S/S double rifles, one chambered for 9.3X74R, and the other for 470NE. Both pairs handle exactly the same as their counterpart, and both can do the other's job if need be. The rest of my battery may be from leveraction to S/S, O/U double rifle, to simi-auto rifle or shotgun, and all seem to work fine for me, but all have their place! I guess I like to hunt everythinhg, and shoot everything, and mix them up a bit!

Cap,

Not necessary. Do you drive two or more different cars?

Same thing with rifles. Just learn to operate them all and know which one is in your hands at any given time.

For African hunting, I have several "matched" sets: 416-404/375HH/9.3x62/7mmRem Mag/30-06/308 in Mauser 98, all with after market triggers and side mounted safties, and 375HH/30-338 Model 70's. I find that having the countrols all identical is an advantage. The biggest problem is which pair to take! Kudude

When the F-104 Starfighter interceptor jet was new the ejection seat fired out of the bottom of the airplane (don't yell at me, I didn't design it). If you had a problem during the take-off or landing phases of flight you were supposed to roll the plane over before pulling the handles.
No one really liked this arrangement, so the decision was made to convert the fleet to "ejection out the top". Ok, now part of the fleet is converted. Two jets bump wings during a formation take-off. The wingman had been trained on converted jets. He pulled his ejection handles. Wham. He ejects out the bottom of his jet and is splattered all over the runway. The lead pilot had flown the old style airplanes. He rolled his jet over, pulled the ejection handles, and Wham. His jet had been converted so he is ejected out the top and is splattered all over the runway. The scheduler that day did not take into account which pilot was assigned to which style of airplane. Just tell the pilot what style his plane is before he goes out to preflight and everything will be cool, yes? No.
In stressfull situations we humans revert to the training that is "hard-wired" into us.
The above story and message was told to me during a "human factors" class during the USAF flight surgeon's course in 1994.
Having two essentially identical rifles is an advantage, especially if dangerous game is on the menu.

lawndart

And I thought this post was about knockers. What a downer.

Speaking of knockers Will, how does the US president of CZ stack up?

lawndart

If you really need matched pairs to be successful in getting your animal, it kinda makes me wonder how people were killing elephants ten thousand years ago with a sharp rock lashed on to the end of a stick.

Same size rocks and same length sticks.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Same size rocks and same length sticks.

JPK

The only thing that matched between my plainsgame rifle and my dangerous game rifle was that I had complete confidence in both. They are more accurate than I am, feed and function perfectly. It would be novel if they were identical in many of the respects mentioned before, but not mandatory for me. Confidence is number one in my book with any rifle in my hands.

quote:

Originally posted by Longbob: It would be novel if they were identical in many of the respects mentioned before, but not mandatory for me. Confidence is number one in my book with any rifle in my hands.

I completely agree. I was making a bit of a joke on this one, in that I think we sometimes get a little bit hung up on everything being "just right" with our rifles and ammo. It was not all that long ago, in the days of such trophy hunters as Herb Klein and Elgin Gates, that they could carry their rifles and ammo on board as carry on baggage, but we now know how much hassle it is to take your rifles to some countries and through some airports. I can see the day coming, and maybe not that far off, where we may just be leaving our rifles at home and using whatever we can beg or borrow, and being handed some ammo of questionable quality. This happens occasionally today. Then we will just have to make the best of the situation or stay at home. Then we will fall back on our basic hunting skill, and I don't think it has to mean that we can not have a good hunt and bring home some good trophies. We have to remain flexible and work with what we have.

RBHunt,

Glad you got a laugh from my response.

I tend to agree with you that for the most part we could all adapt and overcome shortcomings and mismatches and still get most of the job done.

I'm lefty and for years the only guns I got to shoot were right handed guns because thats all there were. It wasn't til I was eighteen and started buying my own guns that I got to shoot a left handed gun.

For the most part it made litle difference but there were a few area it made a huge difference. A couple I recall most vividly were quail hunting and duck hunting. You can't imagine the handicap having an awkward safety can be.

I think dangerous game or any hunting in a dangerous game area is one area where the guns fit and function just needs to be so ingrained that its use is without thought.

Since most of us spend relatively little of our time with our weapons and little of that time with a dangerous game capable weapon it just seems to make alot of sense to use for our "day to day" weapons weapons that are very similar to what we would use for dangerous game.

JPK

I have no need for matched anything...Maybe some do, but they probably can't chew gum and walk at the same time...

I shoot Mausers, Savage lever actions, Win. Lever actions, M-70 Win., double rifles, S&W pistols, Colt and Browning automatic pistols, various shotguns, and on an on....

My point being that whatever gun I have in hand I know where the safty is, the trigger and how it works and I work it accordingly when hunting.

Muscle memory has never confused me, not one time in all my years of hunting......If it ever does, then I will take up nitting...

I have 300winmag in cz550magnum
375H&Hmag in cz550magnum and i'm in the process of buying 458winmag in cz550magnum.

Hamdeni