quote:

I'm sure hunting ANY game is carried on long enough even under ideal circumstances things can go very wrong.

There fixed that. DG just adds more impetus for the client, REGARDLESS of the shape they are in, to be prepared to place their first shot where it needs to be.

They need to take a moment, assess the shot as offered, and if in any doubt at all, talk to the PH and if neccessary, pass on the shot.

Constantly being down on others for not being a tri-athelete when going on a hunt is totally foolish, because I don't think there are that many hunting operators/guides/PH's that turn folks down because they cannot run a 5 minute mile.

Conversely, the guide/PH really needs to assess the hunter, and if neccessary, set the client down and have a serious discussion about what it is going to take to hunt something, physically, and the realities of the hunters/clients physical ability to hunt in the manner neccesary for the desired species.

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Originally posted by Scriptus:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

With all due respect, your selection of fauna doesn't quite compare to the subcontinent. Nobody has to fear the dangerous
Tahr...

eagle27, no disrespect, but in reality, there is a whole lot more over here that can make a hunt go pear shape very quickly. Snakes alone will cause most Kiwis to leave the room without even opening the door.[/QUOTE]

Agreed in terms of animals and bitty slithery things but was more thinking of the total package of the hunting environment, after all the client involved in the subject of this thread was not present on the day it all went pear-shape so the animal thing did not affect the client i.e. he was not in the danger zone but the terrain and hunt had obviously tired him out to the point of being unable to continue.

In terms of environment, and I did make reference to "extreme wilderness" in my post, our wilderness and alpine areas would have to rate right up there in terms of danger to hunters. Apart from things that bite, the dangerous game terrain of Africa and Australia are pretty tame in comparison with many other places around the World where hunters go.
I imagine places like the Rockies and Alaska would be much more challenging for hunters, similar to NZ, in terms of dangerous terrain and weather. Possible it is the knowledge or thought of the extreme terrain and weather that do keep hunters away and make our free hunting not so attractive to hunters while my point being that the pampered hunting style in Africa actually attracts those that may not be up to the required standard in many respects if they had to free hunt.
Of course I don’t apply the above statement as an observation of all hunters going to Africa and it is hypothetical in that everyone, including myself, have no choice in terms of how we are allowed to hunt on the dark continent.
By the way I don’t think snakes like the taste of kiwis we are too foreign to them

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Originally posted by eagle27:
Of course I don’t apply the above statement as an observation of all hunters going to Africa and it is hypothetical in that everyone, including myself, have no choice in terms of how we are allowed to hunt on the dark continent.

You could send a PM to Camshaft who has an assisted "do it yourself" story in Cameroun.

By the way I don’t think snakes like the taste of kiwis we are too foreign to them

According to a recent survey, the venomous snakes interviewed, could not recall anything resembling a Kiwi. 13% of those interviewed did recall fast receding pounding on the ground and a severe dust cloud masking long streaks of smelly brown stuff.
{ Mmmnnhh, I suppose this is a thread hi-jack, sorry.}

Yes, PH's shud evaluate their clients and determine what their physical limits are. Clients should evaluate themselves and determine theirs too!
I did not do my first and probably only Ele hunt because of "wealth" with John Greeff whom I always thought I would----reason....ridges, hills and long treks in Zim! I did it just now in Botswana---flat and only a 2 1/2 hour trek to find and 30 minutes to sort out and drop....
I consider hunters who think they can rush out and kill an Ele or a Buff on their first hunt, with rifles they are afraid of and perhaps never shot, total complete MORONS! I was told by Camp Manager, Duane Jacobz, at Masame and had it reinforced by PH's at Camp that the main reason an Ele is not dropped is intimidation by the size of an Ele or lack of familiarity with firearm.....same goes for Buffalo. I tend to agree!!!
Just stay home and count your money if you can't perform under serious life threatening circumstances!

Again, I've not seen anybody here say how the original hunter being there would have affected the outcome. If a big deal is to be made I don't think it can be over the shape of the client, while his not being there rubs most of us wrong merely because we wouldn't leave our mess to somebody else, it can't be said with any degree of certainty that his being there would have changed things. You can attack shooting skill, and I will believe that many hunters that go out aren't great shots or familiar with their rifles, but I haven't read that THIS hunter was one of those. Messing up a shot isn't limited to people that don't practice, even seasoned hunters mess up their shots. Even people that have hunted for years can get over excited. My stepdad will tell you a great story about hunting with a friend that emptied his complete mag without ever pulling the trigger.

All I'm saying is there is no way, based on what I've read so far, to say that how the client was shape wise and shooting ability wise when he got off the plane caused the tragedy. There's always a desire to point fingers and assign blame when something bad happens, I'm not willing to do that with what I've heard so far.

Red