Hey Mickey,

I tell ya, I would have never dragged this juvenile banter over here from the other board. I knew what I knew, and really did not give a flip who agreed or not. I would have been very happy to have just dropped it over there. But, now I am kind of glad that it did get dragged over here, because if it hadn't, I wouldn't have gotten to read that story that you posted yesterday about when you went to Monterrey. I found it particularly interesting, because I have a very good friend from that area, and he and I were talking about those bulls. He wants for he and I to go and hunt them very soon. He has been telling me a lot about those bulls, all the people they kill and injure, and everything he says is exactly in line with your accounting. The locals call them "Toros Salvajes." He was telling me today about how one time one of those bulls attacked his dad's Ford F250 truck. He drove a horn through the bed and lifted the whole driver side off the ground and was shaking the truck. I am hoping to be able to put together a trip down there after the first of the year. I will not be able to bring my own rifles, though. I will have to use his dad's 30.06. I am going to load up some GS 200 gr Flat Nose solids for it. He will probably have a 45-70 with Buffalo Bore cartridges (and I will NOT get into a debate with anyone about that. That is all we will have access to so that is what we will have to use and that is the end of it. I am not worried-I am confident that if I do my job both rifles will do theirs). Anyway, if you can get to Houston, Mickey, you are invited also, if you would like to go.

Mickey, I also wanted to ask you, how did you come to have knowledge of that herd and how did you end up getting to hunt them?

Ingwe

Hi Mac,



Yes, I have also heard about the wild cattle that you were talking about near Langtree, and what you said about them is exactly in line with what I have heard. I was just wondering, how did it come about for you to be hunting them, and do you know if they are still there, or are they all gone now?



Mac, I'll tell ya what else, you and I are WAY closer to each other on this issue than you and my distinguished colleague. According to him, you should be ashamed of yourself for hunting down and killing those poor little Easter Bunnies in Langtry. I am well and truly done with him. By the way, Mac, I do not really believe that Cape buffalo belong in skirts and lace panties like I said. I was just tired of being told how harmless feral cattle are, when I know better. I read Mr. Aagaard's accounting, and I read my distinguished colleague's accounting, and they were not in accordance with each other, and guess what-I went with Mr. Aagaard's accounting, as I am sure you would have. Believe me, you and I are not far apart at all on this.



Ingwe

Ingwe

There used to be a booking agent up here 'Klineburger World Travel' that put it together. Some may have heard of them.

We were the guests at a Hacienda. We were driven to the foot of the Mts in a pick up by one of the ranch hands and let off with water and food, picked up in the evening. The first day we had a ranch hand show us around but after that we were on our own.

I wouldn't want to hunt those animals on horseback as they are to liable to jump you and you will have to run rather than shoot. Maybe just for transportation to and from.

I also am a firm believer that Murphey was an optimist. That's why I would want my own rifle and not a borrowed one.

I appreciate the offer. Why not contact Burt Klineburger if you are in Houston. He could set you up down there I think.

Mickey, where did y'all stay when you were there? Also, did y'all have horses? I will be staying at my friend's dad's place, and from there we will go to a nearby ranch and rent the horses, and go from the ranch on horseback.

Ingwe

Mickey,



Yes, what you said about the horses is correct. Roberto says we will have to ride the horses in and then dismount. I may go ahead and contact Mr. Klineburger-at least that way he could help me get my own rifle in and out of the country. I do not like borrowed rifles, either, but the 45-70 will be one that I choose, I will personally mount the scope and zero it in with my own Buffalo Bore ammo, and then send it down there with Roberto. It will then stay down there as Roberto's rifle. I also have a little knowledge of the 30.06. It is a new Ruger 77, but I will test it thoroughly with my own handloads before taking it into the field. Hey, just out of curiosity, was your .404 scoped or open sight? If we go through Mr. Klineburger and are able to bring our own rifles, would you want to go, or could you still not make it?



Also, just out of curiosity, what became of all the meat from the bulls y'all killed - was it salvaged by locals or just left?



Ingwe

My .404 is an original Jefferys. Leaf sites then and I have since added a Bolt peep. Low power scopes are okay I just don't have any mounts on my rifle. I do like the peep though.

The time frame won't work for me as I take off for most of the Fall to Canada. In fact I'm leaving tomorrow for a week. I do appreciate the offer and think you will get all the excitement you can stand.

Mickey, I am jealous of your rifle. Really, you have something special there, and I would not have put a scope on it either.

Ingwe

GeorgeS,

Boy, I tell ya what, my research is also indicating that you certainly have a very solid case in connection with that gaur/seledang my friend! They are VERY bad news indeed! Based on some of the reports I am seeing, I am kind of inclined to agree with you on that. Actually, in that second document I posted, when I made reference to the Asian wild bovines as also being more dangerous to hunt than the Cape buff, it was the gaur/seledang that I was speaking of. However, I am really shocked that my distinguished colleague has not tried to accuse you of not knowing that which you in fact do know, simply because you have not killed enough gaurs. I do not know when he first went to Africa, but before that time, he had never been to Africa, and during the part of his life in which he had never been to Africa, he still knew that there were elephants and lions and leopards in Africa, because he read or heard of them in children's story books when he was a child. Although, by his own logic, I would have to assume that he grew up not knowing that these animals existed in Africa, because according to him, all written knowledge is not valid. According to him, we should just take all our children out of school, burn all their books, and destroy all our learning institutions. From now on, no human shall be allowed to utilize any knowledge gained by any means other than personal experience. No prosecutor shall be able to prosecute any defendant, because he was not there when the crime was committed, for the same reason no defense attorney shall be able to defend anybody. In fact, all our laws will have to be abolished, because they are written in guess what-books. In fact, my distinguished colleague should no longer be allowed to learn anything from this forum, beacause-yep, you guessed it-it is all written. Maybe this is why he is what he is - he has never picked up a book, or, if he has, he has disregarded everything in it. Hmm, go figure..

Ingwe

Mac,



According to my distinguished colleague, I am an "armchair hunter," because I take advantage of the fact that I am not illiterate, and I read. Oh well, at least I am in very good company, because, since you were reading page 40 of "Shooting Illustrated," that makes you an armchair hunter too!



Also, since, according to my distinguished colleague, personal experience is now the only means by which we are allowed to learn, I am not allowed to believe your reports of your buff hunts and what happened at Langtry, since I wasn't there. Your doing it, and then me reading your report on it isn't good enough anymore. Sorry my friend.



Ingwe

Mickey,



I am sorry my friend, but according to my distinguished colleague, personal experience is now the only way we are allowed to learn anything, so I am not allowed to believe your report in connection with what happened in Monterrey. Your doing it and then me reading your report on the matter is not good enough anymore. The only way I would be allowed to believe you is if I would have been there. Oh, also, whoever exercises their literacy and reads is an armchair hunter. That makes you and me both armchair hunters because you read my reports! Oh well, at least I am in good company.



PS: I am also not allowed to learn about your .404 Jeffrey either by reading what you wrote about it because I have not actually seen it.



Can anyone tell I'm having a ball with this?



Ingwe

Frank Beller,



I am sorry, but according to my distinguished colleague, personal experience is now the only way any of us are allowed to learn anything. That means you are not allowed to believe anything Karamojo Bell wrote, because you were not there. Him doing it and then you reading his reports on the matter are not good enough any more. Although I would have to believe that if Bell had written more favorably about the buff, you would have been allowed to believe him. Oh, also, from now on, anyone who is not illiterate is an armchair hunter, so, since you were reading Bell, you are now an armchair hunter like me. Sorry my friend.



Ingwe

ErikD,

I am sorry my friend, but according to my distinguished colleague, personal experience is now the only way any of us are allowed to learn anything, so you are not allowed to believe anything that Pondoro wrote. Him doing it and then you reading his reports on the matter is not good enough anymore, since you were not there. Although, I would have to believe, that if Taylor had written a little more favorably about the buff, you would have been allowed to believe it. Oh, also, anyone who is not illiterate is an armchair hunter, so since you were reading Taylor, that makes you an armchair hunter also like me, Mac, Mickey, Frank Beller, and all the others.

Ingwe

Canadian Lefty,

I am sorry my friend, but according to my distinguished colleague, personal experience is now the only way any of us are allowed to learn anything, so you are not allowed to believe anything Haidar wrote, since you were not there. Him experiencing it and then you reading his reports on the matter are not good enough anymore. Also, anyone who is not illiterate and reads is an armchair hunter now, so since you were reading Haidar, you are an armchair hunter also like me and all the rest of us.

PPosey,

I am sorry my friend, but according to my distinguished colleague, personal experience is now the only way any of us are allowed to learn anything. That means none of us are allowed to believe the story you wrote about when you were surrounded by the wild cattle, since we were not there. Your having experienced it and then telling us about it through your writings is not good enough any more. Also, anyone who is not illiterate and reads is now an armchair hunter, and since you read this forum, you are also an armchair hunter along with the rest of us.

Ingwe

hahahahaha gets worse,,,,Im a librarian also,,,,,,I read alot these days

Vinny



I did a little "research" of my own, I think these will be perfect for you.......I hear they are recommended by many outdoor writers as proper undergarments for cow hunting!

This "debate" has gotten down right silly!

Fosteology, I would definitely have to concur with that.



Besides, I only get my Dangerous Game panties from Victoria's Secret, and they all look a LOT hotter than those old granny looking things in that photo!



I cannot believe that I am having to discuss my panties on a Dangerous Game forum. I keep trying to discuss "Toros Salvajes" north of Monterrey, but my distinguished colleague keeps changing the subject back to my panties!



Now then, getting back on topic, I was talking to my friend from that area today, and he told me something that I thought you guys might be interested to hear. Over there, he says that pretty much the only ammunition that the locals can get is 30-30 or 30.06, so those are the calibers that they are limited to for killing the wild bulls. And you know that none of these are even solids. I guess it just goes to illustrate once again how much more important bullet placement is than what you actually hit them with. Boy, you think about those guys being limited to 30-30's, and then you think about the juvenile fights guys get into on these boards over the 45-70.. How incongruous is that?



Ingwe