Gents,
I would appreciate your considered opinion on whether 400gr Nosler Partitions are satisfactory in .416 RemMag for buff.this for the case that one has to use softs.In my experience n smaller "game" Barnes and therefore GS bullets always keep flying when done,I dont want to pay for unintended kills in a herd.
Thank you
sheephunter

I haven't shot a thing with the 400 gr. Nosler, but I did file one in half, to see what its "guts" look like.

It has a pretty thick front jacket, but the front core is pretty short. I'm sure this is done so there is alot of weight left in the shank area for deep penetration.

I think it would be good for a first shot on a buff. I've read of guys using 400 gr. Hornady bullets with good success.

Personally, I think the 400 gr. Nosler Partition would be a great bullet for just about anything you'd hunt with a .416, including buffalo (for at least the first shot), provided you have good load with solids to go along with it.

The thing to do, before you settle on an actual hunting load, is discuss the subject of bullets with the PH you'll be hunting with. Many of them have divergent philosophies when it comes to bullets. For example, one PH I've hunted with thinks that a premium softpoint is all you should need for buffalo. Another PH I've hunted with prefers solids or X-bullets over softpoints. Other PHs say a premium softpoint load in the chamber, with a magazine full of solids is the way to go.

Having my druthers, I'd probably go along with the softpoint in the chamber / magazine full of solids philosophy. I'm taking a .416 Remington to Tanzania next year, and I'll be taking solid and softpoint ammunition (loads not finalized yet), so I'll be set no matter what. At the very least, the softpoint ammo should be just the ticket for lion.

AD

I used a 300gr Nosler Partition in my 375 on the only buffalo I've shot....MV was 2550fps and the range was about 50 yards...a frontal shot into the crease where the neck joins the body. Recovered bullet weighed a hair over 200gr...no 2nd shot required but I had 3 solids in the magazine if needed.

The 416's are a new bullet, toughened up and have the partition moved forward as I recall..They have been thourghly tested in Austraila on the big Water Buffalo that are larger than Cape Buff..I saw a number of those bullets used in an article and they showed perfect expansion..

I'm sure they will work, I have known a very few Noslers to fail, but all soft point bullets will fail, partically in a Buff spine and sometimet on the shoulder knuckle...It just depends on how you define failure in a bullet, blowing off the front end of a Nosler is NOT a failed bullet.

Id use them in a heart beat, followed by solids, but I'd just as soon use all solids. Both methods work.

Thanks all of you,
there are plenty of notes on this web re the advisability of using a "soft" bullet on buff first,in particular when in a "herd" situation.Most of these notes classify as softs the Barnes X which I always regarded as a "hard" bullet,given their lack of expansion and deep penetration.Then of course there are the newer ,maybe better bullets in Northfork and GS style for softs and solids.I plan to lokk at them /dvlp ammo with them - if they are necessary.My take is that the cost of the hunting bullet is neglilible ,but the cost of devlping ammo quite expensive,and if I am "lucky"
and order 100 GS FN's they might not even shoot in my gun, who knows.Bottom line ,if something cheap works -why get fancy?
So I will use the Noslers as softs and look for hard ones in addition.I am also looking for a bullet for plains game from a 416 REM Mag,that probably means 300 gr or so yielding a flatter trajectory.Any suggestions there?

thanks for the sharing of experience
sheephunter

Sheephunter,

Mike Griffin, who occasionally posts on this forum, used the 300 gr. Barnes X bullets in his .416 Rigby last August in Namibia with great success. I know how effective they were, because I was with him. I would recommend something like that if you can develop an accurate load. I believe he used his on shots out to around 300 yards. I have some pictures of his animals and some of the exit wounds if you are interested.

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com

7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

Sheephunter, are you going to take only your .416 for all the animals you plan to hunt?

Even if you are, I wouldn't take anything but 400 gr. loads, even for plainsgame. Too many bullet weights can cause hassles and problems that you don't want, and you want everything hitting in the same place at all times anyway. A box of 400 gr. solids and three boxes of 400 gr. softs should take in everything I should think, and you're likely to come home with plenty left over.

AD

FWIW, I'm with Allen here.

I can't understand having a pocket full of different loads and bullet weights, as worrying about mixing up solids and softs is enough for me.

Afterall, you are hunting, not spending a day at the target range.

Will

I agree with Allan and Will, keep it simple..

I shot everything from Plainsgame to Buffalo with my 416 last year, in Tanzania and RSA...I used the 380 gr. Northfork and the GS Flat Nose Solid..they both shot to the same POI, so thats OK...If you can get yours to to do that then your in business, but I doubt the 300 gr. Barnes will do that in combination with the 400 gr. solids....

The Northforks were all absolutly perfectly expanded on every animal I shot and came to rest on the off side skin so that would be great for herd shooting buffalo. They kill Buffalo like a 270 kills deer, and I'm not a fan of the soft on Buffalo, but these Northforks really work, and I have one perfectly expanded bullet that smashed a spine and that is extremely unusual..I recovered 8 Northfork bullets. I ran them at 2350 FPS and NF tells me that if I upped the velocity to 2500 I would get full penitration, I must try that next time.

The GS FN will pass through anything and do a lot of damage on the way. I believe this to be and excellent combination of a soft and solid and easy to reach the same POI....

If my gun would not put two in the same POI and some guns won,t then I just go with the GS FN.

In my 416 Rem, I've used Barnes X in 350 followed by solids. Only taken a couple of Buffs, but the 350 X did the job on them. I've also used the 350X for Eland with good results.

Hi Sheephunter,
I just went through my reloading data and by using the 400 grain soft point bullet you will only be giving up 2.5 inches of bullet drop over 300 yards compared to using a 300grain bullet. In field shooting at that distance I don't think that it will matter. Just load the 400 grain bullets and keep it simple.
Take good care and have a good trip,
470 Mbogo

I had very good success with 416 Rem Mag using 350 gr. Swift A Frame on plains game AND buffalo.

Average Velocity was 2590. I had 95% weight retention with excellent penetration. Sighted in for 2" high at 100 yds results in a 200 yd zero.

I had not planned on using the 416 on buff so all I had was 350 gr. Swift for plains game. I expressed concern to my PH when the shot presented itself. He said the 300 gr. is standard for the 375, the 350 gr. in the 416 will do the job. Excellent results.

Jim

Thanks so much,
the forum really shines here ,sharing valuable practical experience.Yes ,while I can take 2 rifles and considered doing so,My understanding reading is that 1 rifle is good enough and simpler.So if suitable I shall go with 1 rifle.Because I really "lust" for the big bull I have a 416 being built currently by John Ricks on a W M70 action.So now I have to decide on what ammo to zero in on,being guided by what I read here on the forum.

What powder and charge did you use,if I may ask

thanks again

sheephunter

Using Rem Brass and Federal 215 Primers, I load 85gr. Rel 15 with the 350 gr. Swift A Frames. I Chrony all my loads and looked in my notes, the 2590 average was with temps around 45�. Another day with temps around 80� the average velocity was 2605.

Jim

sheephunter

I would go for one weight of the bullets. Pick one solid to match the partitions in 416. Woodleigh, Hornady or sledgehammers should work.

/ JOHAN

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, The only "ONE SHOT" kills I have on Buffalo, have been with a 300 gr Nosler Partition from a 375 H&H. All the rest took three or more if the spine or brain wosn't hit, regardless of caliber or bullet wt/type.

In my 375 H&H the 300 gr NP shoots to the same POI as a 300 gr Barnes super solid, with 1 gr less powder than the NP load!

I see absolutely no reason why this combination, only with 400 gr bullets in a 416 Rem Mag, wouldn't work.

I would agree with the others as well, use one weight bullet for both soft and solid, and shoot everything with them. I carry a belt with loops on each side, and i put softs in one side, and solids in the other, keeps things at least 2 ft apart, on my fat ass!

[ 02-03-2003, 21:17: Message edited by: MacD37 ]

thanks all,nothing like practical experience

sheephunter

I'm typing a response for my PH from Zimbabwe (he can't type). He said that the Nosler Partitions are worthless on buffalo and that in some cases they don't even penetrate the rib cage. He tells his clients to use the Swift A-Frame or Barnes X for the first shot and then followed up with solids.

Tim

Shumba,
You need to get a new PH, that one is just full of it, being a PH makes not a good hunter, must be a plainsgame specialist...

I have seen over 50 Buffalo and know of a 100 being shot with Noslers in our camps alone, and no failures and to suggest that they only penitrate 3" is just pure unadulterated BS....Of course any bullet can fail on very rare ocassions.. I read and reported on Nosler failures in Man Magnum a year of so ago,

I also have seen a Swift shatter on the spine of a buffalo on two ocassions, but that kind of thing will happen to any bullet.

Both Nosler and Swift are excellent bullets for Buffalo in every respect...I consider Northfork to argueably be the very best of the softs...

I intend to use the 450 gr. Woodliegh this year, as I have seen extremely few failures with Woodleigh over the years, they are just an exceptional bullet.

As Seyfried says in his latest article, you hear about Nosler failures from time to time, but he allowed he takes that with a grain of salt... I concur....

Ray,

I find it hard to believe as well and I actually plan on using the Nosler Partitions in a 416 Rigby on my next buffalo hunt in August 2004.

I asked Ian (PH at Big 5 Safaris in Zimbabwe, Chewore North) what failures he has seen. He said he could recall four (4) and that they were all at close range and from a .375H&H I believe.

Regarding Ian's buffalo hunting experience, I doubt there is anyone on this forum that has shot more buffalo or that has witnessed more buffalo being shot than Ian.

Tim

Atkinson

Are you going to bring the croc rifle that have been reconditioned?

Will the "normal" 375 H&H twist stabilize the 350 and 380's(solid rhino shank). Is it true that Woodleigh have made their bullets a bit thougher to withstand higher velocity?

Have you used the 450's in 416? They seem to be very nice

/ JOHAN

I stronly suspect that what many call a failure in a Nosler is the front partition blowing off and this happens sometimes, but that is not a failure imo as the damage has been done and the base will penitrate beyond belief..I suspect that is what your PH refers to...

I know a hundred PH's that like the Noslers and they have all killed a lot of Buffalo. I always ask to see these failures when told such things, but they are never available, that is strange because you would think they would keep them...Ross Seyfried brought this to my attenition at one time..

Johann,
I have completed the Croc rifle and it shoots the 350 gr. bullets wonderfully, both PP and RN...I have also used the 416 with 450's and it also shoots very well indeed...I shot a couple into dead bulls but they went out the other side, so I shot one lenthwise and it to went out the other side, left about a 1 to 1.5" exit in all 3 cases...I just had a few...I now have quite a number of both to test next year...

The croc gun is not scope friendly as the Holland and Holland bolt does not allow scope mounting and I don't want to change the originality of that, so I will be without a scoped gun unless I decide to leave my double at home and take my scoped 416 Searcy rifle.

The Woodleighs in 375, 416 and 404 have been beefed up a good deal as of about a year ago..The new Noslers (partition gold) are beefed up and the partition is move further forward and it will penitrate more than the others will...

Use the Nosler Partitions if you want. Tell the PH they are something else. If he thinks they won't penetrate the rib cage he probably can't tell a NP from a hard cast bullet.

Atkinson

Thanks for the good information

I agree, to put a scope on the H&H would be rape, don't even think about it

/ JOHAN