What's the situation in CAR these days? A friend is interested in trying a destination he hasn't hunted yet.

I saw Alain Lefol is reopening his hunting camps there. The only thing that jumped out to me was you have to use his rifles as a US citizen cannot import a rifle into the country. A trip for the adventurous to be sure!

Yes, I saw the gun restrictions as well. My friend is a rifle nut, and has many safari rifles from Jeffery, Westley Richards, H&H, etc. I doubt he'd be keen on using a camp rifle.

I don't go if I can't take my own rifle. Still, small steps.

Alain and his son Kewin are offering hunts in CAR (Lefol Safaris). I exchanged a few messages with Kewin a few weeks ago as I began some preliminary research into a safari for Derby Eland. They have been taking several US clients per year and Kewin reported no issues. The area is very remote in eastern CAR. It seems the main camp serves their bongo hunts while they use a spike camp in a different part of the concession for eland. Definitely sounds like an adventure!

A few years ago Erik Marav stopped in camp while we were hunting in Congo-Brazzaville. Erik owned Central African Wildlife Adventures (before things went south in CAR) but now works for African Parks. He might be a good point of contact for your friend to get some additional insight.

Potentially CAR would be a fabulous hunting destination if an available concession had a decent variety of typical game. Personally I would love to hunt LDE and if ever I found myself in the position of being able to hunt there wouldn't quibble about having to use a camp rifle, even though I shoot left handed. I can always adapt ! I always prefer to use my own rifles of course but think not being allowed to do would be a small cost for the chance to hunt CAR.
Probably best not too think to hard about what a hunt there would cost. Don't want to put myself off !!

While on the rifles subject, is one allowed to enter CAR with ammunition if not bringing a rifle ?
I'm guessing this also is not allowed but am asking anyway.
Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by 30.06king:
While on the rifles subject, is one allowed to enter CAR with ammunition if not bringing a rifle ?
I'm guessing this also is not allowed but am asking anyway.
Cheers.

UN decided to control the entry of ammo and guns as we all know hunters are the ones providing ammo and guns to all the guerillas there ...

that country was so beautiful when i hunted guided and lived there ... those days are long gone. issues already but nothing you cannot make experiences of nowadays a different stroy.

You have to practically "buy the airplane " for the charters into camp!!

I can remember the fantastic stories from the senior hunters in our Safari Club Chapter on their elephant hunts in CAR in the late 70s and 80s.... phenomenal!! Kleinburgers were booking hunters in there.... Jack and Casey Schwabland, Pete Papac, John Cotten, Ted Boysen, Dr Jerry Warnock.... fantastic stories and slide shows... what a dream!!

Good luck, Guys!! What an adventure!!

CheerZ,

There is a great presentation by Alain and Kerwin Lefol on African Hunting .Com with an excellent expose' of photos. Just Google Alain Lefol Safaris and the link comes right up..

CheerZ,

It's been some years but I hunted with Erik twice. That area is the real deal when it comes to wild game. I took a ton of trophies - LDE, bongo, yellow backed duiker, giant forest hog, etc. Never saw an elephant though. Never saw any sign either. I went when it must have been in the heat of the season b/c I could barely sleep it was so hot. Bring a portable battery powered fan.

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
You have to practically "buy the airplane " for the charters into camp!!

I can remember the fantastic stories from the senior hunters in our Safari Club Chapter on their elephant hunts in CAR in the late 70s and 80s.... phenomenal!! Kleinburgers were booking hunters in there.... Jack and Casey Schwabland, Pete Papac, John Cotten, Ted Boysen, Dr Jerry Warnock.... fantastic stories and slide shows... what a dream!!

Good luck, Guys!! What an adventure!!

CheerZ,

These stories are why I've long dreamed of hunting CAR. I've been fortunate to spend time in camp with several PHs who hunted CAR extensively and it was clear by the enthusiasm in their tone and the look in their eyes that they loved hunting those remote wilderness areas. While I've not personally been, I consider CAR to be the last frontier of African hunting...

I can't remember who recently sent me the hunt listing for CAR... and the charters of $30,000... I was being funny, as I really think that was a typo... more like $3000?? I hope??

I always react to these big charter numbers by saying " I don't want to buy your airplane, just use it for a few hours!!"
I am an old pilot and small aircraft owner, so know the drill and the costs... even remote...

Prices are not mentioned in their excellent post on AfricanHunting.com I emailed them for more information....

Yes, this is what DREAMS are MADE OF!!... and if you have dreams, they can become reality!!

CheerZ,

quote:

Originally posted by TigerPaw:
It's been some years but I hunted with Erik twice. That area is the real deal when it comes to wild game. I took a ton of trophies - LDE, bongo, yellow backed duiker, giant forest hog, etc. Never saw an elephant though. Never saw any sign either. I went when it must have been in the heat of the season b/c I could barely sleep it was so hot. Bring a portable battery powered fan.

I hunted with Erik in 2012 IIRC? I had Mike Fell for a PH. I was supposed to have Christophe Mario but there was a change for some reason, I've forgotten.

I was there in Late December for the LDE rut. It was super cold at night. I sat in the Bongo Machan for 5 or 6 nights before I connected.

For me, it was, by a very large margin, the best Safari I have ever done. The game, the hunting style, the camp, the food were all far more than I expected.

I shot the entire contract, every animal.

I have kept in contact with Christophe and some day, when CAR is safe again, He and I will walk for a special LDE.

BUT...even when it was relatively safe, It was dangerous. Joseph Kony from the LRA was loose in the bush then. He had just kidnapped 3 Americans about 60K from camp. Erik and his pilot were arrested for something and hauled away the hunt after mine.

One day, we drove past the airstrip and there was a plane there, not ours. At dinner Erik told us "the CIA stopped by for lunch today"

On our 8 hour drive back to camp Kocho from Bongo camp, we came head to head with a group of Sudanese Elephant poachers riding donkeys. There were 4-5 of them. They had saddle blankets on the donkeys with AK's sitting under their legs.

As we passed one another we made eye contact. Those were the fiercest looking men I had even seen. Mike told me "Don't reach for your rifle"
hahaha yea, no shit.

I would compare it to The Garden of Eden. It is without exception, the harshest, yet most beautiful place on this planet. I'd return there in a heartbeat.

I don't want to think about how much I have paid for charters over the years.

A fellow once told me that paying for a child's college education these days is like buying a German luxury car every year for four years, and driving every one of them off a cliff.

I think I feel exactly the same way about all of the charters I have flown in my life!

Charter flights in Africa are a huge rip off. Essentially you are paying for resupply of remote hunting camps….

I flew only once and that was in Zim and was reasonable ( $600 a piece )
I’d go CAR if there were elephants on ticket

Steve, sounds like you got the added adventure with your safari. We did have a helo flying around us one nite as we were hunting bongo in a machan. Erik said they were looking for the LRA. My thought was if I could hear the helo then they can't be that far from us. But never had any encounters.
I hunted with him when his operation was fairly new and his wife was pregnant with their first child. It was a blast since I was his last client and we had run of the whole area. Didn't connect with a bongo on the first round but did on the second.
The flight to camp was interesting. My pilot was smoking and drinking vodka. He asked if I wanted any. I thought about it and thought I'll never have this happen again so I joined. Sure wished I had a pic of that. Even the flight was fun.
What wasn't fun were the billion sweat bees. But if you were cold on your hunt then you probably didn't have to deal w them. I never sweated as much as I did there and I live in Texas.

I was also fortunate enough to hunt with Erik Mavrav twice. Both were memorable trips with the 2d being the better of the two because of my PH, Adam Parkinson.
The contrast between the 2 trips was striking. On the first trip (Jan 2010), I felt that I was in a complete wilderness and downtown Bangui was an adventure.
When I returned in Feb 2014, the hunt area was still very nice but the quantity of animals was down and on the charter flight in the difference was striking as a result of uncontrolled cattle grazing and destruction of the habitat. Downtown Bangui was off the menu on this trip due to the civil war and general unrest/instability in the capitol. And, we had to share the Kocho camp with "peacekeepers" from the Ugandan Army.
Would I go back? Guess I answered that question in 2020 when I bought Jacques Lemoux's donation at Reno SCI. I haven't followed up on this trip due to Covid bullshit. If Jacques determines that he can't honor it, I won't feel like it was anybody's fault except CCP and our own Democraps.

quote:

Originally posted by Pancho:
I was also fortunate enough to hunt with Erik Mavrav twice. Both were memorable trips with the 2d being the better of the two because of my PH, Adam Parkinson.
The contrast between the 2 trips was striking. On the first trip (Jan 2010), I felt that I was in a complete wilderness and downtown Bangui was an adventure.
When I returned in Feb 2014, the hunt area was still very nice but the quantity of animals was down and on the charter flight in the difference was striking as a result of uncontrolled cattle grazing and destruction of the habitat. Downtown Bangui was off the menu on this trip due to the civil war and general unrest/instability in the capitol. And, we had to share the Kocho camp with "peacekeepers" from the Ugandan Army.
Would I go back? Guess I answered that question in 2020 when I bought Jacques Lemoux's donation at Reno SCI. I haven't followed up on this trip due to Covid bullshit. If Jacques determines that he can't honor it, I won't feel like it was anybody's fault except CCP and our own Democraps.

I had Adam for 3-4 days. Mike Fell had never hunted this concession and Adam was with us to show Mike the roads. Good dude.

quote:

Originally posted by TigerPaw:
Steve, sounds like you got the added adventure with your safari. We did have a helo flying around us one nite as we were hunting bongo in a machan. Erik said they were looking for the LRA. My thought was if I could hear the helo then they can't be that far from us. But never had any encounters.
I hunted with him when his operation was fairly new and his wife was pregnant with their first child. It was a blast since I was his last client and we had run of the whole area. Didn't connect with a bongo on the first round but did on the second.
The flight to camp was interesting. My pilot was smoking and drinking vodka. He asked if I wanted any. I thought about it and thought I'll never have this happen again so I joined. Sure wished I had a pic of that. Even the flight was fun.
What wasn't fun were the billion sweat bees. But if you were cold on your hunt then you probably didn't have to deal w them. I never sweated as much as I did there and I live in Texas.

Nope, it was miserable with sweat bees, specially when taking pictures of Buffalo. I get cold easy , but not hot. So, others likely wouldn't be cold.

I was very fortunate to kill a really big Bongo. I have seen exactly one Bongo in the bush in my lifetime. The one that resides in my Trophy Room.

I received a nice email back on my inquiry from Kerwin. Clearly, This is a Garden of Eden Hunt and one that I would very much like to do...the Trophy List is a Dream List with Both Bongo and LD Eland...and many West Africa species!!

He responded to the Charter- it is 2hrs-45 minutes in a twin turboporp- LET 410, 19pax, kind of like a retractable gear deHavilland Twin OTTER...250mph cruising speed....

The fee is 16,800E or about $19,150 US Round Trip...and they try to share it with adjoining hunting groups to cut the costs...

I must say that is a REMOTE Camp... and probably the highest Charter fee I have seen on a hunting endeavor?? Now that said, that is 12 hours of flying for a round trip... or $1600/hour... which is not that bad for the type of equipment and distance. I have seen CARAVANS at that rate too!!

I would really enjoy joining a hunt into the arena... I am at the stage of Not Bringing Home Trophies... so this would be a heart wrench to leave some of these!!...

Dreaming on....

CheerZ,

Spend probably $2000 to get to Bangui, you’ve spent $21,000 just to get to camp……..Nope.

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
I received a nice email back on my inquiry from Kerwin. Clearly, This is a Garden of Eden Hunt and one that I would very much like to do...the Trophy List is a Dream List with Both Bongo and LD Eland...and many West Africa species!!

He responded to the Charter- it is 2hrs-45 minutes in a twin turboporp- LET 410, 19pax, kind of like a retractable gear deHavilland Twin OTTER...250mph cruising speed....

The fee is 16,800E or about $19,150 US Round Trip...and they try to share it with adjoining hunting groups to cut the costs...

I must say that is a REMOTE Camp... and probably the highest Charter fee I have seen on a hunting endeavor?? Now that said, that is 12 hours of flying for a round trip... or $1600/hour... which is not that bad for the type of equipment and distance. I have seen CARAVANS at that rate too!!

I would really enjoy joining a hunt into the arena... I am at the stage of Not Bringing Home Trophies... so this would be a heart wrench to leave some of these!!...

Dreaming on....

CheerZ,

I simply cannot fathom the thought of shooting two of the most highly prized of the Spiral Horns and not bringing them home. SMH...

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
I received a nice email back on my inquiry from Kerwin. Clearly, This is a Garden of Eden Hunt and one that I would very much like to do...the Trophy List is a Dream List with Both Bongo and LD Eland...and many West Africa species!!

He responded to the Charter- it is 2hrs-45 minutes in a twin turboporp- LET 410, 19pax, kind of like a retractable gear deHavilland Twin OTTER...250mph cruising speed....

The fee is 16,800E or about $19,150 US Round Trip...and they try to share it with adjoining hunting groups to cut the costs...

I must say that is a REMOTE Camp... and probably the highest Charter fee I have seen on a hunting endeavor?? Now that said, that is 12 hours of flying for a round trip... or $1600/hour... which is not that bad for the type of equipment and distance. I have seen CARAVANS at that rate too!!

I would really enjoy joining a hunt into the arena... I am at the stage of Not Bringing Home Trophies... so this would be a heart wrench to leave some of these!!...

Dreaming on....

CheerZ,

Ouch! That charter cost would sting but if it could be arranged to be split between groups coming in and going out it could be palatable for this type of grand adventure.

EXACTLY!!... I would probably not pull the trigger on those two...be selective and enjoy the magnificence of the surroundings!! My trophy room is full...and we are in downsizing mode... painfully planning to send off to auction... just keeping a handful of the best??

I broke my own rule on my last safari, completing my AFRICAN 29 AWARD with ROAN, and a #16 Aoudad... and those two turned into a debacle and the dip n pack, and shipping, and broker clearance cost MORE THAN MY DAILY RATES!! DISASTER!! That's another story!!

How about a Group hunt like Tim Herald is putting together for Uganda??

CheerZ,

Interesting and timely thread. I’ve been WhatsApp messaging with Kewan Lefol just this week and he sent over their 2023 pricing. For a 20 day 1x1 hunt, all in, it looks like it’ll cost €100,000-110,000; as in about $125,000 USD.

It sounds like a grand adventure, but…

Does that include tips??!!

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
Interesting and timely thread. I’ve been WhatsApp messaging with Kewan Lefol just this week and he sent over their 2023 pricing. For a 20 day 1x1 hunt, all in, it looks like it’ll cost €100,000-110,000; as in about $125,000 USD.

It sounds like a grand adventure, but…

If I splurge that much I'll have to figure out how to recoup everything I lose in the divorce settlement too...

quote:

Originally posted by PAGuardian:

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
Interesting and timely thread. I’ve been WhatsApp messaging with Kewan Lefol just this week and he sent over their 2023 pricing. For a 20 day 1x1 hunt, all in, it looks like it’ll cost €100,000-110,000; as in about $125,000 USD.

It sounds like a grand adventure, but…

If I splurge that much I'll have to figure out how to recoup everything I lose in the divorce settlement too...

PA, I already took care of that 2nd part about 12 years ago, which is why I’ve been to Africa 3 times in the last 4 years.

I've paid nearly that for long charters in Tanzania, so while high, it's not shocking to me. My wife and I have a deal. She doesn't complain about how much I spend chasing game in Africa and I don't chase tail. The arrangement has seemed to work for over 35 years. We actually celebrated our 35th anniversary in camp in Masailand.

quote:

We actually celebrated our 35th anniversary in camp in Masailand.

Poor woman!

Sounds almost as bad as mine!

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I've paid nearly that for long charters in Tanzania, so while high, it's not shocking to me. My wife and I have a deal. She doesn't complain about how much I spend chasing game in Africa and I don't chase tail. The arrangement has seemed to work for over 35 years. We actually celebrated our 35th anniversary in camp in Masailand.

You mean all you have to do to hunt all you want is not chase other women?? Damn, what a deal. I obviously married the wrong woman.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. And I agree with Saeed, "poor woman". But I got a great deal.

quote:

You mean all you have to do to hunt all you want is not chase other women?? Damn, what a deal.

Damn, I thought that promise just came with being married! You must be a real stud! I have a friend that has to literally prepare a written contract with his wife every time that he hunts. She gets something of significant value for each hunt that he takes. He's never hunted Africa, Alaska or Mexico, or anywhere internationally. And, he's an attorney and now retired Justice of the Peace as well! We went to law school together 43 years ago.

Here is the trophy list in this Garden of Eden:
BONGO
BUFFALO
BUSHBUCK-HARNESSED
BUSH-PIG (red river hog)
CAT CARACAL
CAT CIVET
CAT SERVAL
DUIKER-BLUE
DUIKER-RED FLANKED
DUIKER-WESTERN
DUIKER-WEYNE
DUIKER-YELLOW BACKED
* GIANT ELAND (Lord Derby)
GIANT FOREST HOG
LEWEL HARTEBEEST
** LEOPARD
** LION
ORIBI
ROAN WESTERN
SITATUNGA FOREST
WARTHOG
WATERBUCK SING-SING
PORCUPINE
BABOON
PATAS


This really is a spectacular(DREAM) hunt list... and there are not many places you can hunt LDE and Bongo on the SAME hunt!!.... one instead of two very expensive hunts!!

I don't make any agreements with my dear wife... I just take her with me sometimes and she has a ball too!!... and I have my full medical attention (Nurse Practitioner) built in... she is just as much at home on a luxury cruise ship as on safari!!...
On my last hunt we came directly from a 94 day luxury/small ship cruise to the East Cape of South Africa... and she is already talking about going back... seems the Outfitter has both Buffalo and Rhino in the lodge compound wandering freely...and you do have to be careful walking back to your Rondavel after dinner in the dark!! Quite exciting when they poke up against the windows or Rondavel at night.... from there back to JNB and then we had a driver take us up near Kruger, to TIMBAVATI Private Reserve... and did a 5 day photo safari... trust me... these are VERY DIFFERENT experiences, where people get the WRONG IDEA about the danger of African wildlife...very acclimatized to vehicles and you can drive VERY CLOSE... which is uncomfortable for us as we now what Wild Animals Can and Do DO!!.... my wife has taken some spectacular photos on our safaris!!
Then it was back to JNB/AFTON HOUSE with our driver, I went out on a day hunt for doves, pigeons and warthogs, my wife enjoyed the day at the Lodge with Eliz... then the rest of the way home on British Air... a full circuit around the world!!... We were BOTH HAPPY!!

CheerZ,

What a 'to die for' list of available animals! My wife doesn't require contracts either and she loves Africa-especially the wilder parts out in the bush! There's a hunting/photography lodge in Kwa-Zulu Natal that has rhino and buffalo running free around the grounds like you described, and if you aren't careful, in the evening while walking to the dining hall, you can come eye to eye with either!

I would be surprised if LDE, roan and lion are found in the equatorial rain forest.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
I would be surprised if LDE, roan and lion are found in the equatorial rain forest.

While I've not been, it is my understanding that the eastern CAR has more broken habitat with dense forest along the rivers and large areas of savannah in between. I think it is much different than other bongo areas in true climax equatorial forests of Cameroon, Congo-Brazzaville, and southwestern CAR.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:

quote:

You mean all you have to do to hunt all you want is not chase other women?? Damn, what a deal.

Damn, I thought that promise just came with being married! You must be a real stud! I have a friend that has to literally prepare a written contract with his wife every time that he hunts. She gets something of significant value for each hunt that he takes. He's never hunted Africa, Alaska or Mexico, or anywhere internationally. And, he's an attorney and now retired Justice of the Peace as well! We went to law school together 43 years ago.

That explains it.

He is a lawyer, so what does one expect?

Bloody hell, this sort of wife is the sort I take out to the desert for breakfast, and sell her for 2 old camels to the camel guard!

They always offer to exchange women, regardless of who they are.

We have a much better marriage system

A dowry is agreed on before marriage, half is given when they get married.

Half is due when they get divorced.

And the best part is, classy people ask for very little.

Giving each other to the marriage.

I feel sorry for some of you lot!

Lawyers and all, you deserve what you got!

My wife got very upset last year because I missed going on safari.

Probably not too happy to have missed her peace and quiet for three weeks!