Thinking about hunting Lesser Kudu, Gerenuk, F.E.Oryx in Massailand with Hunting Block, Outfitter, PH are the best ?! I hunted alredy Mto Wa Mbu and Lake Natron for Tommy and Grant.

I have no idea what "the best" is, but I was very pleased with Monduli (corrected ) where my son and I took 2 tommys, 2 grants, fringe-eared oryx, lesser kudu, generuk, and a white-bearded wildebeest in 3 days.
Here's my son's lesser kudu:

I was going to start a related thread this morning, but it appears someone else beat me to it. I am interested in going after some of the east africa plains game, primarily because seeing Tanzania is probably the best way I can sell a trip to Africa to my wife.

It seems like Tanzania is primarily a DG destination, (that's what seems to bring in the $$$, so if I ran an outfit there, that's probably what I would do to). But I don't want to go buffalo hunting (I know, I know), and the rest of the big five seem a bit out of reach as far as the budget.

Mboga, Spring, did you take your previous plains game as part of a DG hunt? Do you have a recommendation for an outfitter that I should talk to?

And Mboga, if this qualifies as a thread hijack, I apologize. I'll start a different thread if you prefer.

Spring

I dont belive there are any Massai Species in Moyowosi mayby Topi, Sitatunga, Defassa Waterbuck and Sable....you can find there.

Spring,

Monduli you cretin.

mbb,

The problem with Masailand and the unique plains game species there is you basically have to book a hunt at 21 day license prices to be able to pursue them. We have great hunting for the species you mentioned but it is not cheap.

Mark

Thanks, Mark, for remembering more about the places I went than I do! I've corrected the earlier post....

Check with Rich Elliot regarding Ethiopia... some of the plains game you seek can be taken in the Omo on a 15 day hunt. Still not cheap, but may be less than a 21 day affair. Also, Wendell Reich was offering a "collectors hunt" for PG in TZ without the dangerous nasties and supposedly at a lesser price. He may shed some light on this for you. Tanzania is a wonderful country to hunt in, but it is getting more and more expensive to do so.... I couldn't imagine going there and not shooting buffalo however!

Wendell's website shows the plainsgame only hunt in the Kigosi area, no lesser kudu genenuk etc. only Sitatunga, Roan, Sable etc. Not cheap either.

Ethopia is also very expensive. The quality of plainsgame that Nassos takes is well worth the cost, however, in my opinion.

Brett

I would love to hunt Massailand some day and I would be pricing a hunt with PH Jonathan Taylor for sure.
He is a Zimbabwean that now lives in Tanzania.
jt@jthunting.com

ozhunter

quote:

Originally posted by Brett:
Wendell's website shows the plainsgame only hunt in the Kigosi area, no lesser kudu genenuk etc. only Sitatunga, Roan, Sable etc. Not cheap either.

Looked at that, and for about $2,000 more could do a 14 day hunt and include buffalo.

Has anybody hunted in Luke Samaras Simanjiro Consession for Lesser Kudu, F.E. Oryx and Gerenuk and other Massailand Game .....

What makes hunting Northern species in Tanzania expensive is that there are very few outfitters with those concessions and requires a 21 days license to hunt L. Kudu and Gerenuk. However, if you are interested in just the northern species and no dangerous game, the price can be less than expected. We will be more than happy to assist you on this.

quote:

Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:
Has anybody hunted in Luke Samaras Simanjiro Consession for Lesser Kudu, F.E. Oryx and Gerenuk and other Massailand Game .....

Its a good area with good success rates on E. A. species. Probably better early in the season for the plains game or just as the short rains start when the new grass attracts the herds out fo the park. Very good buff but difficult and dangerous hunting in thick thorn scrub.

I don't want to start a fight on here, but this is an idea that just popped into my head. I think they should set aside a few places in Tanzania that are prime plains game territory. These areas could be somewhere between 25,000 and 100,000 acres with 10 ft. electric high fencing around the perimeter (mainly to keep dangerous game OUT, but also to raise large, quality herds of East African plains game). Then they could run hunts that are 10-14 days for plainsgame only and maybe charge $500/day instead of $1,500-$2,000/day because there wouldn't be quite as much man power needed as there is on DG hunts. I'll bet they would have people lined up for miles waiting to do these hunts. I, personally, would love to hunt on a place like that. I know, I'll probably be insulted and receive several death threats from the anti high fence crowd for proposing such an idea, but that's alright. It's just something that was floating around in my head, so don't be too hard on me.

Bad idea! There are already "large, quality herds" roaming wild.

I agree with Bwanamich. Also, any fencing especially in Tanzania will restrict animals from their regular migratory routes. As a result, the gene pool would be affected. Thus having less quality animals like many other places. To overcome this, most animals in high fences like deer in Texas are protein fed to produce large antlers instead of just letting the natural selection do its job.

In nature, the strongest will survive, ensuring strong gene pool without us humans interfering with the process.

In my opinion, confining animals in a restricted area is unethical, especially where it is really not needed in places like Tanzania.

Tanzania needs game fences like a man needs a second hole in his ass...... one of the things that makes Tanzania sooooo good is it's wildness.

If someone wants to hunt behind wire to ensure higher success rates (or for any other reason) they can go to Southern Afrcia.........

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Bad idea! There are already "large, quality herds" roaming wild.

Well, that may be true, but it doesn't fix the problem of EA plainsgame hunts being so damn expensive! I was only suggesting a possible solution to the ultra-expensive EA plainsgame hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by UsanguSafaris:
I agree with Bwanamich. Also, any fencing especially in Tanzania will restrict animals from their regular migratory routes. As a result, the gene pool would be affected. Thus having less quality animals like many other places. To overcome this, most animals in high fences like deer in Texas are protein fed to produce large antlers instead of just letting the natural selection do its job.

In nature, the strongest will survive, ensuring strong gene pool without us humans interfering with the process.

In my opinion, confining animals in a restricted area is unethical, especially where it is really not needed in places like Tanzania.

I would think that if you set aside these places in areas that had sufficients year-round water (even if some is man made), that they wouldn't need to migrate. Also, the gene pool would NOT be affected on a place of this size and it would most certainly NOT have less quality animals. As to your statement about confining animals in a restricted area being "unethical", I REALLY don't want to get into that. My aim wan't to justify high fencing to the anti high fencing crowd, I am only throwing ideas around and so far, I see no reason something like this wouldn't work.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Tanzania needs game fences like a man needs a second hole in his ass...... one of the things that makes Tanzania sooooo good is it's wildness.

In this case, the high fence would not be used to "ensure higher success rates". It would be used to give people an opportunity to hunt EA plains game without breaking the bank.

quote:

If someone wants to hunt behind wire to ensure higher success rates (or for any other reason) they can go to Southern Afrcia.........

You're missing the point. The reason I suggested that is so people could hunt EAST AFRICAN plains game, NOT Southern African plains game.

Actually Bwana, I think it's you that's missing the point. East African plains game are desireable because they're limited to a particular relatively small area and their numbers are limited. - Which is one of the main reasons they're only available on an expensive hunt. If they were farmed to increase their numbers and then shot in greater numbers in fenced areas, they would lose their exclusivity and to some extent, their desireability. - If there were fenced areas in Tanzania offering 'South African' style hunting then the country would also lose some of it's exclusive & desireable reputation for true wilderness hunting. -

At the end of the day, you can't buy a Rolls Royce for the price of a Ford and you can't buy a Holland & Holland rifle for the price of a CZ.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Actually Bwana, I think it's you that's missing the point. East African plains game are desireable because they're limited to a particular relatively small area and their numbers are limited. - Which is one of the main reasons they're only available on an expensive hunt. If they were farmed to increase their numbers and then shot in greater numbers in fenced areas, they would lose their exclusivity and to some extent, their desireability. - If there were fenced areas in Tanzania offering 'South African' style hunting then the country would also lose some of it's exclusive & desireable reputation for true wilderness hunting. -

At the end of the day, you can't buy a Rolls Royce for the price of a Ford and you can't buy a Holland & Holland rifle for the price of a CZ.

Well then, Shakari, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

My vote will always go towards fighting ANYTHING that brings civilisation to, or tames any of the few remaining truly wild places we have left in this world........ So, as you say, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Eland Slayer,

some Maasailand species like Grant's, Robert's and Tommy's are available in the cheapest hunting package (7 days) in Tanzania. Of course the cheapest 7 day hunt in Tz may be very expensive compared to the cheapest package in SA or Namibia. But that is just the way it is. Diffeent countries, different prices.

In fact, think about this; Lesser kudu, gerenuk and oryx are the expensive EA game but are also hunted in at least one other country i.e. Ethiopia. Tommy's, Grant's and Robert's (If I'm correct)are ONLY huntable in Tanzania, no where else IN THIS WORLD and yet are cheaper

Hey Steve, maybe we should all raise our prices on these.

I reckon the game department might do that for us in a year or two anyway......... If clients think Masailand plains game is expensive then wait until the first giant sable hunts go on the market in a few years time!!! - Still, maybe someone will capture some and translocate them to a theme park somewhere so they can be hunted for less........

Sorry about that, I just couldn't resist it!!!!

Eland Slayer,

Let me elaborate on the point you missed since it is apparent you don't get it yet. People buy an African safari for the total experience not just to shoot animals. The game fenced ranch experiences that you've had in Texas and will have in Namibia are great hunts but bear little resemblance to a safari in Masailand or any other truly wild area. That different experience is what brings people to hunt Masailand, Luangwa valley, Zambesi valley etc. If it was only for the shooting we'd all do lot of hunting in Texas and save a bunch of money. It's difficult to grasp how different these experiences are or the value they provide until you've done it. To shoot a gerenuk in an enclosure would be fine but not much removed from hunting a bongo in Texas. In both cases you would rob yourself of the experience of hunitng the animals in their natural habitat.

Mark

Mich,

I've a price list from ERVS for Ethopia with soome very good Grant's on the cover so I'm pretty sure they are available there.

Like a lot of guys with a little experience, I would dearly love to hunt some of the EA plainsgame. I would immagine there would be a market for 7-10 day plainsgame hunts priced like a similar buff hunt. Would that over-tax the quota? Given current prices I would think the plainsgame quotas are underused. A 12-15K plainsgame hunt is still expensive but probably worth it to a fair number of us who both love to hunt in Tanzinia and who are really interested in EA plainsgame.

Perhaps this makes even more sense in the Selous. I would love to go back to hunt just plainsgame. If I could do it for a price similar to a buff hunt I probably would, mostly just to be in the Selous again. The density of PG was really amazing, possibly because of the restrictive license requirements.

I guess it really boils down to business. If everyone is making plenty of money with the current scheme and the resource is not over-used there is no reason to change things.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Eland Slayer,

Let me elaborate on the point you missed since it is apparent you don't get it yet. People buy an African safari for the total experience not just to shoot animals. The game fenced ranch experiences that you've had in Texas and will have in Namibia are great hunts but bear little resemblance to a safari in Masailand or any other truly wild area. That different experience is what brings people to hunt Masailand, Luangwa valley, Zambesi valley etc. If it was only for the shooting we'd all do lot of hunting in Texas and save a bunch of money. It's difficult to grasp how different these experiences are or the value they provide until you've done it. To shoot a gerenuk in an enclosure would be fine but not much removed from hunting a bongo in Texas. In both cases you would rob yourself of the experience of hunitng the animals in their natural habitat.

Mark

Mark

I get the point many are trying to "elaborate" to me. First of all, the VAST majority of my hunting in Texas has been unfenced. Secondly, the place we are going to in Namibia is NOT game fenced. Also, i don't think you would save any money by hunting most of this stuff here in Texas. People have lost their minds when it comes to pricing most African game in Texas. Why would shooting a Gerenuk on a 100,000 acre ranch in Tanzania be ANY different than shooting one that isn't on a ranch? There's absolutely no possible way that the fence would even come into play on a place of that size, in regard to the quality of the hunt. And, it would still be in its natural habitat. I'm not suggesting you move animals to places they are not indiginous. I'm sure there is a BIG difference in shooting a Gerenuk on a ranch in Tanzania and shooting a Bongo in Texas. So, I don't see how you would be "robbing" yourself by hunting a Gerenuk IN ITS NATURAL HABITAT, just in a fenced in area that is large enough that the fence doesn't interfere with the quality of the hunt. I knew this was a bad idea!

quote:

I knew this was a bad idea!

Amen.

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:

quote:

I knew this was a bad idea!

Amen.

I meant that posting the suggestion on AR was a bad idea, not the suggestion itself. I still think the suggestion is a FANTASTIC idea.