Watched Movie Hatari last night on advice from someone on this forum. Very interesting with some good footage of Africa. However, as I was watching the wildlife capture scenes it struck me how some people, like the real wildlife capture experts of this era and the PH's who killed thousands of elephants for profit, are consider "Hero's" in the literature/lore on Africa. In reality, Perhaps they are not different from the current "Meat hunters and poachers" we all detest! This is only an observation and I may be wrong.

I don't necessarily disagree with your perception but I caution you to consider the all important factor of time in relation to attitude and opinion. Some of the accepted practices of the past have become outright illegal and/or unethical toady. Not only in hunting circles but everywhere in life. A good example is the acceptance of drinking alcohol 100 and more years ago as opposed to today. Just a generation ago having a couple drinks on one's "lunch hour" wasn't unusual or even unacceptable. Similarly, it wasn't all that long ago that wine and beer were considered acceptable for children.

Did hunters of the same era use methods and take quantities we'd find apalling today? Sure, but many other things were different as well. Everything is relevant to the standards of the day. A hundred years from now I'm sure people will be similarly appalled at what we do while considering ourselves "conservationists".

Well, a number of the "heros" in African literature were in fact poachers. That doesn't mean their lives weren't interesting and obviously we like to read their books.

It's interesting that in all of their shooting however, they never seemed to endanger the resource. I think they were aware of their actions and acted accordingly. They didn't kill every elephant they encountered. They were often quite selective in their shooting.

A final thought is that it's never correct to judge a previous generation by the standards of the current one.

quote:

A final thought is that it's never correct to judge a previous generation by the standards of the current one.

Pricesely!

And this should apply to everything not just hunting.

One needs to be careful about being judgmental on the old elephant hunters. Folks back then were being encouraged by their homelamds to immigrate to Africa. When they got there they had to do something or starve. No welfare programs then.

They were killing elephants to make a living and probably a couple hundred died at it for every book that ever got written.

So who in the end was responsible for the loss of elephants or other wildlife back then? The peanut farmers or the professional elephant hunters?

In present day, population growth, poor land use, AK-47's, you name it, all threaten the elephant. But the conservationists in Africa have done a pretty good job at hanging on to what is left.

When one flies over the US there is hardly a stone unturned. When one flies over southern Africa at least some of it looks pretty deserted.

What is worse? Planting more ground for the ever expanding population, paving new parking lots, foreign aid, drilling new oil wells, the "conservationist" buying new vehicles and tires, the guy down the street selling insurance, or curing AIDS! Everybody gets credit for a shrinking elephant environment. And conservation sure hasn't saved the elephant in Kenya. It is only the value of elephant hunting that helps stop the poachers, the present day "professionmal elephant hunters."

And the bottom-line "hero worship?"

James Farmer, "How I Plowed under Southern Rhodesia for Peanuts,"

or,

J.Q. Hunter, "A Good Day in the Lado, a Thousand Pounds of Ivory."

I'll take J.Q.

oupa, you hit the nail on the head. I guess that is why I am so out of step with this generation and time. While in Africa on safari I toast the fallen beast with a shot of scotch or beer be it 8:00 AM or 8:00PM. This doesn't impare me and I have never had a PH say a word or give me a sideways glance. There are too many "hollier than thou" amoungest us. If you don't do it my way you are wrong. JMO Oh I thought about the game capture in the movie and some may frown on it now but it took some GUTS to do it, eh.

/

Some very good perspective from the group. Thanks, George.

The best statement was the one about judging another times manners and practices by our standards now.

If you get the chance, get hold of a copy of Roosevelts book about his 1910 safari and in the back is a comprehinsive list of the game he and Kermit killed during their safari, not quite 100 years ago.

As some one else stated, in the future there will be those that look back on us and wonder how we could have been so wasteful with the resource.

One day in the near future people will also look back and say how irresponsible we were with a finite resource like oil,driving overpowered muscle cars, suvs ,using it for pointless excercises like motor racing and selling it for ridiculously low prices etc ,but years ago oil seemed like an unlimited resource like the game in Africa ,timber in forests ......

tankhunter (or should I say Obama) what are you doing at a computer why are you not using a stone and hammer for your correspondednce.