Hi All,

Just got back from SA and wanted to pass along my experience with the firearms import process there.

First, my flight arrived relatively early in the morning ~9:30 am. A Lufthansa baggage handler found my rifle and escorted me to the police station where I was pleasantly surpised that I was "first in line." I had all documents neatly arranged in a folder that I pulled out and handed to the on-duty officer as he asked for them. The only thing he griped about is that my form 4457 did not explicitly list the rifle caliber. He prepared the permit and I was off to the domestic terminal. Just before departing the police station, the baggage handler from Lufthansa smiled as the rifle cases outside the police station door started to pile up and told me that I had beaten the crowd (the SAA plane had just landed from Atlanta and the chaos would soon be underway).

In general, I found the on-duty officer friendly and helpful. I think that one of the major problems is that there are not enough of them to handle the volume of people that come off from one or more flights in short stretches in time. I am sure there are other circumstances that contribute to backlogs like guys showning up and saying "What paperwork?"

Finally, I seriously considered using one of the help services in Jo'berg like Optima. I am glad I did not elect to do so. The quote I got for the "escort" services was outrageous. The airline staff helped get me from the claim to the police station and then through customs and on to the domestic terminal to the transfer point there - no charge.

The one "issue" I ran into was Lufthansa charging me a "Weapons Handling Fee" of 50 Euros upon my departure at Jo'Berg. It's a good thing they did that to me on the back end of a great trip and not on the front end.

Doug

quote:

Originally posted by douglast:
Hi All,

Just got back from SA and wanted to pass along my experience with the firearms import process there.

First, my flight arrived relatively early in the morning ~9:30 am. A Lufthansa baggage handler found my rifle and escorted me to the police station where I was pleasantly surpised that I was "first in line." I had all documents neatly arranged in a folder that I pulled out and handed to the on-duty officer as he asked for them. The only thing he griped about is that my form 4457 did not explicitly list the rifle caliber. He prepared the permit and I was off to the domestic terminal. Just before departing the police station, the baggage handler from Lufthansa smiled as the rifle cases outside the police station door started to pile up and told me that I had beaten the crowd (the SAA plane had just landed from Atlanta and the chaos would soon be underway).

In general, I found the on-duty officer friendly and helpful. I think that one of the major problems is that there are not enough of them to handle the volume of people that come off from one or more flights in short stretches in time. I am sure there are other circumstances that contribute to backlogs like guys showning up and saying "What paperwork?"

Finally, I seriously considered using one of the help services in Jo'berg like Optima. I am glad I did not elect to do so. The quote I got for the "escort" services was outrageous. The airline staff helped get me from the claim to the police station and then through customs and on to the domestic terminal to the transfer point there - no charge.

The one "issue" I ran into was Lufthansa charging me a "Weapons Handling Fee" of 50 Euros upon my departure at Jo'Berg. It's a good thing they did that to me on the back end of a great trip and not on the front end.

Doug

Doug

Interesting, glad you had a good time and your zipped through JIA like a dose of salts (-:

Obviously you were first in line due to flight arrival time and being on Lufthansa, proberbly NOT the volume of hunters on Lufthansa that arrive ex:USA on SAA, so that explains your easy path through Police checks

You are proberbly 100% correct, mostly the JIA delays with permit issues are because they dont have enough staff to deal with an arrival of hordes of hunters on one flight and in some part incorrect paper work /// no excuse for them not having staff and logistics in place to deal with it ///

PHASA has been advised of the issues at JIA and will TRY their best, but dont hold your breath as they like us common people are dealing with entrenched burocratic belligrants at times.

You mention an (outragious charge offer or quote) from Optima ///

Either it is a genuine error, or they have jumped on the BAND WAGON gravy train and decided to (fleece the customer) as previously it was, by all reports we have heard UNDER $100 dollars, dependant upon the service requested

Damn Lufthansa fleecing you a weapans fee of Euro 50 - SOB

Regards, Peter

I am very happy that you had a nice time. I didn't.

douglast,

Lets see, I have the 4457, contract with outfitter, letter of invitation, and SAP 520.
Am I missing anything? There was some discussion of a letter of invitation, but the PHASA website doen't speak of it. What paperwork did you have?

BigBullet

BigBullet,

You need a Motivation Letter. Here is what I used.

YOUR NAME
ADDRESS
PHONE
EMAIL

DATE

Central Firearms Register
Private Bag X 811
Pretoria
South Africa
0001

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Please be informed that I, YOUR NAME, a United States citizen, USA Passport Number XXXXXXXXXX (expiry xx July, 200x), residing at YOUR ADDRESS, USA will be hunting with NAME OF SAFARI COMPANY, ADDRESS OF SAFARI COMPANY [PHONE AND FAX OF SAFARI COMPANY]. My wife, WIFE'S NAME, a United States citizen, USA Passport Number XXXXXXXXX (expiry xx July, 200x) will be accompanying me.

The safari will be conducted by NAME OF PH, PH'S PROFESSIONAL HUNTER LICENSE NUMBER, PHONE # OF PH. The safari will be conducted between [beginning date and ending date of safari] on [name of concession(s)].

I will be hunting the following; [list animals to be hunted]. In order to conduct this hunt I will be using the following firearms; [list firearms maker, action (bolt, etc.), model number, serial number, calibre]. I will require xx rounds of ammunition for the .375 H&H rifle and xx rounds of ammunition for the .416 Remington Magnum.

I will need a Temporary Import Firearms Permit for South Africa as I will be arriving Johannesburg on [date] and staying overnight at [Afton Guest House, ADDRESS, PHONE, CONTACT PERSON]. On my return from Zimbabwe on [date], I will be again staying overnight at Afton Guest House before my return flight to the US on xy, July, 2005.

If you need anything further, please contact me at the number listed above.

Regards,

Terry L. Carr


NOTE: After looking at the letter again, I would probably also add the Airline's Name, Flight Number and Arrival/Departure Time for all flights.

_______________________________________________________________

Obviously you need to modify the paragraph about hunting in Zimbabwe if you are hunting in RSA.

quote:

Originally posted by BigBullet:
douglast,

Lets see, I have the 4457, contract with outfitter, letter of invitation, and SAP 520.
Am I missing anything? There was some discussion of a letter of invitation, but the PHASA website doen't speak of it. What paperwork did you have?

BigBullet

Yes the PHASA websit does speak of it, the letter

5. Invitation Letter from the Hunting Outfitter
This is a letter from the Hunting Outfitter/company.
To be written on an official letterhead of the Hunting Outfitter/company;
With the PH’s and Outfitters details to include their name(s), surname(s), license number(s) and in which province(s) they are registered;
This letter must state for what type of hunt the client is invited and what calibers will be used on the hunt.
State where the hunt(s) will take place – name of farm(s) and district(s).
This letter must also state that the mentioned weapons will only be used for hunting purposes on the mentioned properties;
State the duration of the hunt;
This letter must be signed by the Hunting Outfitter/company and dated.

Regards, Peter

Balla Balla,

I mis-wrote the previous post and said "letter of invitation"(I have the letter of invitation taken care of), when I meant to say "letter of motivation". Terry answered my question though. What are your thoughts on this "letter of motivation" as Terry describes above? Somehow he knew what I was talking about? Terry, you are psychic!

Thank you for your help, I'm jsut trying to stay up on the latest.

BigBullet

quote:

Originally posted by BigBullet:
Balla Balla,

I mis-wrote the previous post and said "letter of invitation"(I have the letter of invitation taken care of), when I meant to say "letter of motivation". Terry answered my question though. What are your thoughts on this "letter of motivation" as Terry describes above? Somehow he knew what I was talking about? Terry, you are psychic!

Thank you for your help, I'm jsut trying to stay up on the latest.

BigBullet

I am an OLD worn out Rhodesian so no SOB ever listen me anymore

I really dont know what bullshit they are thinking up with the motivation letter ///

we better ask someone in authority in RSA as they are the ones planning our destiny

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by BigBullet:
douglast,

Lets see, I have the 4457, contract with outfitter, letter of invitation, and SAP 520.
Am I missing anything? There was some discussion of a letter of invitation, but the PHASA website doen't speak of it. What paperwork did you have?

BigBullet

BB,

Actually, it was quite interesting. I had more paperwork than what they asked for. When I arrived, I just asked the attending officer what he wanted. 1.) Form 4457 (which was the first one he checked and somewhat jokingly barked that it did not include the weapon caliber so he wrote it on there). 2.) Letter of invitation with all the license numbers, etc. from the PH and Outfitter. 3.) Import permit application form. 4.) Passport.

I had already made my own copies of all the paperwork so he appreciated me just giving them to him and saved him the hassle of making copies.

I had also prepared a letter of motivation but he did not ask for it. Finally, there was some discussion here in recent posts about needing some sort of "proof of export" obtained from an authority such as a police department. I sort of had the local police gin up something that did not explicitly grant me permission to take the rifle out of the country - rather they just stated that they saw no reason why I couldn't. Again, he never asked for it and I never offered it.

Also, I think Balla Balla correctly states that my being first in line was due to the fact that my flight arrived ahead of the SAA cattle car. I don't believe there was any other hunter on the Lufthansa flight out of Frankfurt. I guess I was just lucky (and happy).

Doug

quote:

Originally posted by douglast:

Finally, there was some discussion here in recent posts about needing some sort of "proof of export" obtained from an authority such as a police department. I sort of had the local police gin up something that did not explicitly grant me permission to take the rifle out of the country - rather they just stated that they saw no reason why I couldn't. Again, he never asked for it and I never offered it.

For Americans, the Customs 4457 form serves that purpose.

-Bob F.

Gulp!
There is also this pre-method whereby the outfitter gets the paper work sorted out by snail mail with his client upfront and gets it to the airport cops somehow.
Should one attempt to do that in parallel? Or could that go wrong and then make the whole process tumble?
Lochi.

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
[
For Americans, the Customs 4457 form serves that purpose.

-Bob F.

Bob,

That is what I thought but there was some questions on this board a few weeks ago as to whether the 4457 served that purpose or not. I wanted to have something in my hip pocket if the need arose. As it turned out, I didn't need it.

Doug

quote:

Originally posted by Lochi:
Gulp!
There is also this pre-method whereby the outfitter gets the paper work sorted out by snail mail with his client upfront and gets it to the airport cops somehow.
Should one attempt to do that in parallel? Or could that go wrong and then make the whole process tumble?
Lochi.

Lochi,

Actually, I filed paperwork about four weeks ahead of my planned arrival. The SA Police website gives instructions for applying by mail. I followed them and sent it in. I will probably get it back in about four or five months. If you have some time between now and when you travel, I would give it a try. If I go again, I will apply for my permit by mail well in advance.

Doug

Doug,
There is another way, whereby my client could fill in all paperwork and mail to me in RSA. I then go to the RSA police and get him the importation permit upfront.
The problem (I'm told) is how to get it to my client to where he is lining up somewhere behing those sliding doors. You cannot mail it back to him because .... ?? I dunno
Lochi.

quote:

Originally posted by Lochi:
Doug,
There is another way, whereby my client could fill in all paperwork and mail to me in RSA. I then go to the RSA police and get him the importation permit upfront.
The problem (I'm told) is how to get it to my client to where he is lining up somewhere behing those sliding doors. You cannot mail it back to him because .... ?? I dunno
Lochi.

Lochi,

It is my understanding that you can assign the duty to obtain the permit to someone else (like your client assigning that to you). There are additional fields in the SAPS application form that need to be filled out. I don't know how many outfitters are doing this ahead of time for their clients. If your clients have enough time prior to their arrival, they can submit all the paperwork to the Pretoria office and do it themselves.

Any outfitters in SA getting the import permits ahead of time for their clients?

Doug

Here is a slightly modified Motivation Letter form.


YOUR NAME
ADDRESS
PHONE
EMAIL

DATE

Central Firearms Register
Private Bag X 811
Pretoria
South Africa
0001

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Please be informed that I, YOUR NAME, a United States citizen, USA Passport Number XXXXXXXXXX (expiry xx July, 200x), residing at YOUR ADDRESS, USA will be hunting with NAME OF SAFARI COMPANY, ADDRESS OF SAFARI COMPANY [PHONE AND FAX OF SAFARI COMPANY]. My wife, WIFE'S NAME, a United States citizen, USA Passport Number XXXXXXXXX (expiry xx July, 200x) will be accompanying me.

The safari will be conducted by NAME OF PH, PH'S PROFESSIONAL HUNTER LICENSE NUMBER, PHONE # OF PH. The safari will be conducted between [beginning date and ending date of safari] on [name of concession(s)].

I will be hunting the following; [list animals to be hunted]. In order to conduct this hunt I will be using the following firearms; [list firearms maker, action (bolt, etc.), model number, serial number, calibre]. I will require xx rounds of ammunition for the .375 H&H rifle and xx rounds of ammunition for the .416 Remington Magnum.

[USE THIS PARAGRAPH IF HUNTING IN RSA]

I will need a Temporary Import Firearms Permit for South Africa as I will be arriving Johannesburg on [date] via [add Airline name, flight number and arrival time]. I will be departing Johannesburg on [date] via [add Airline name, flight number and departure time].

[USE THIS PARAGRAPH IF OVERNIGHTING IN RSA BEFORE CONTINUING ON TO A DIFFERENT COUNTRY - IN TRANSIT PERMIT]

I will need a Temporary Import Firearms Permit for South Africa as I will be arriving Johannesburg on [date] via [add Airline name, flight number and arrival time] and staying overnight at [Afton Guest House, ADDRESS, PHONE, CONTACT PERSON]. I will be departing Johannesburg International Airport for [add location, Harare, Zimbabwe -- Windhoek, Namibia, etc.] on [add date, Airline name, flight number and departure time]. On my return from [add country, Zimbabwe -- Namibia, etc.] on [add date, Airline name, flight number, arrival time], I will be again staying overnight at Afton Guest House before my return flight to the US on [add date, Airline name, flight number and departure time].

If you need anything further, please contact me at the number listed above.

Regards,

Your Name

I have a question related to the firearms import documentation-I am traveling to Namibia to hunt but will be flying from Windhoek to Cape Town to stay in the winelands for several days after the hunt. Does my PH in Namibia need to write an invitation letter? This does not seem to make sense. Given what I have read recently it is not entirely clear that I can legally bring my rifles into SA.

Any ideas on how to deal with this? There must be others who have a similar situation. Thanks.

Doug,
I do not know of any specific outfitter doing that for his clients, but I just thought it would be "the right thing to do" to make my client's life easier after a long flight.
Lochi.