Here's a question . Mostly to other outfitters and booking agents but members will be able to give valuable info also.

Have any of you sold ( or bought ) a Leopard hunt with the condition that if the cat is shot at and missed then the full trophy fee will be charged ?

I found this recently on an outfitters pricelist and conditions for a Leopard hunt. I found it strange.

My opinion is that there is a lot of frustration on the PH's ( I'm sure the hunter also ) part when this happens as a lot of hard work and time has gone into the cat. The chance of him returning is slim and one now has an educated cat.
I do however feel this "comes with the territory" so to speak and charging someone for that is wrong. Certainly not helping anyone to promote business.

I can understand this with hippo or croc, but no way with any other animal.

No blood, no pay.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I can understand this with hippo or croc, but no way with any other animal.

No blood, no pay.

I understand that NO BLOOD NO PAY, but to shoot at him and missed, full trophy fee is applicable, that is strange!......

Jan,


A slight twist to your post, in 1994 when we went to Africa (Zimbabwe) for the first time, booked a "hunt-pak" through Tony DaCosta. The package included X amount of days hunting, leopard, kudu, two impala and a warthog. All trophy fees were included in the package price.

If you did not get an opportunity at a leopard, your trophy fee would be returned. If you missed the leopard or were too slow shooting, no refund.

The PH was Paul Jelonek from Bundu Safaris.

The PH I hunted with in Zim this year does this. His reasoning was that an educated cat is almost unkillable. He prides himself not on just the massive size of the cats on his property, but on having basically no educated cats on the place. After working our butts off for fourteen days to get the right cat to feed, I don't fault him for such a rule. As a client I felt a little bit more pressure, but with how he secures the rifle for the shot, I don't know how one could miss.

Guys,

In principle I don't like the idea that if you miss you pay. In practicality I can see the safari operator's point. I know of a very successful operator that does this in Namibia. You're hunting cats that have been persecuted as vermin forever and are extremely wary. The operator has pre-baited this particular cat you're after for maybe months so that he is habituated to check the bait site everytime he's in the area. Additionally his quota is only two for the year. If a client blows the shot it's very unlikely that leopard that the operator has worked so hard for will ever return.

Mark

Something about this bothers me. Not sure precisely what it is. Maybe it is the lack of symmetry . . . seems like if you are going to be charged if you have a shot opportunity and blow it then you ought to get money back if you do not ever get a shot opportunity. I am not talking about having the trophy fee refunded if you prepaid it or not being charged the trophy fee, I am talking about getting some of the daily rate back.

I guess the thinking would be something like, the outfitter books the hunter with the expectation that if the shot opportunity presents itself the hunter will deliver and if he does not then the hunter needs to pony up the trophy fee. The flip side would be that the hunter books with the outfitter with the expectation that he will be presented with a shot opportunity and if one is not presented then the outfitter needs to return some of the daily rate.

Not sure why all the risk needs to trickle down to the hunter.

Never heard of it in Zambia.

I remember reading one Outfitter's brochure (a few years back), that stated that if an animal presented itself, you HAD TO SHOOT, or you would be charged the trophy fee.

That seems even more one-sided IMO.

BH63

Not applicable in Tanzania - You pay for it if wounded and lost, same for all other game.

Hunting a Leopard is a game of wits and if a crafty Leopard outwits you then better change profession because they ain't that smart.

Ethiopia you buy all tags up front, no trophy fees. The same thing in practice.

I've only shot at two leopards and killed both of them, so I'm far from an expert; but I would not hunt with a safari operator applying this policy. I have no problem paying for a wounded and lost animal but I'm not paying anyone for a missed animal. I'm not afraid I'll miss, but I am philosophically opposed to spending my days with someone so focused on the financial aspects that it clouds just enjoying a wonderful hunt together.

What if you have a couple of leopards on bait and miss, then shoot (or miss) a second one later in the hunt?

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
What if you have a couple of leopards on bait and miss, then shoot (or miss) a second one later in the hunt?

Then you require a calculator.

Jan


No never in 25 Years.

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
Here's a question . Mostly to other outfitters and booking agents but members will be able to give valuable info also.

Have any of you sold ( or bought ) a Leopard hunt with the condition that if the cat is shot at and missed then the full trophy fee will be charged ?

I found this recently on an outfitters pricelist and conditions for a Leopard hunt. I found it strange.

My opinion is that there is a lot of frustration on the PH's ( I'm sure the hunter also ) part when this happens as a lot of hard work and time has gone into the cat. The chance of him returning is slim and one now has an educated cat.
I do however feel this "comes with the territory" so to speak and charging someone for that is wrong. Certainly not helping anyone to promote business.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I can understand this with hippo or croc, but no way with any other animal.

No blood, no pay.

I have personally tracked an Impala where there was no blood and we found it dead. Where it died there was blood, but nothing on the spoor.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaco Human:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I can understand this with hippo or croc, but no way with any other animal.

No blood, no pay.

I have personally tracked an Impala where there was no blood and we found it dead. Where it died there was blood, but nothing on the spoor.

I have also seen this on impala and deer.

Jan, just as Saeed said. No blood, no pay.

Guess I was mistaken thinking that a trophy fee went to the government. If it does (or should) go to the government, why should the outfitter care when the animal is not shot?
From the above discussion, it appears to me that the outfit owner is keeping the trophy fee.

Bob,

The safari operator has added on to the trophy fee plus a shot at but missed leopard in some areas will become instantly educated about free meals in trees.

Mark

I don't miss much at African shooting distances.

But if I did miss, having to fork over a fee sure sounds like adding insult to injury.

I would not hunt with an outfitter who had this policy. No damn way.

Was told by outfitter on a Mt. Nyala hunt in Ethiopia that when I fired a shot, the hunt was over. Never was told this prior to arrival. Led to some heated discussions.

Why would you miss?

quote:

The safari operator has added on to the trophy fee plus a shot at but missed leopard in some areas will become instantly educated about free meals in trees.

Almost 100% of the time a Leopard will tree its kill for good reason.

If the bullet was too close for comfort and as long as it wasn't nicked, it will come back;
it may not return to the same tree but it most certainly will continue taking "free meals on other trees".

Alternatively, and unless this particular outfitter relies on a "put and take" operation, give that cat a break for a short spell and go find another.