If you aren't a 45-70 on Cape Buffalo fan do NOT read this month's American Rifleman. Mark took a Uberti HiWall 45-70 with a period replica Malcolm-style scope to Africa and killed a Cape Buffalo with it.

Blasphemy to some, but a good hunt and write.

Rich

There's nothing wrong with using the 45-70 in that rifle -- plenty of barrel to use all the powder and benefit from all the effectiveness of that fine old chambering. It should be a wonderful choice for Africa.

I've toyed with trying my lever guns in Africa one time -- I'll never give up my handguns as my usual choice -- and that article was certainly an inspiration to get off my duff and do it.

Nobody ever said the 45-70 wasn't good -in its day -and in its circumstances (dropping American buffalo and shooting at Indians) - However the 30-40 Krag-Jorgensen (a very fine bolt action and also pretty good cartridge) did replace it -and,oh,yeah, along came first the '03 to replace the Krag (gee, didn't something called the 30-06,pretty good in its own right, also follow?) To stop playing around - the smokeless cartridges in Africa replaced all black powder loads -and the 45-70 in its modern version is an updated black powder load. (All advocates of the 45-70 remind me of something that Fred Barnes wrote years ago in his "Cartridges of the world". He said the 32 Win. Special was an ideal cartridge for anybody who believed that the 30-30 (first of the smokeless cartridges)wasn't here to stay. I thought it was funny when he wrote it and still do - because there still are many people around who worship old black powder cartridges and think that loading with smokeless cures the simple fact that such cartridges have been outgrown. The argument is endless.

Just read the article. Another guy, yet again, proving that one can drive a nail with a monkey wrench.

Boy, has this place gotten kindler/gentler the last couple of years! Usetabe, if ya even mentioned .45-70 on the African forum, there'd be 20+ pages on being a jerk, redneck, no account wannabe....etc., etc.

I took a 45-70 guide gun, to RSA, in 2008, and got 7 head of plains game, with the ole girl.

Going next year, with my son to hunt Tuskless ele, hippo, and cape buff. No the 45-70 is stayin home, but I'm taking the other bastion of controversy.....a Ruger no. 1, in 375 H&H!

Always did like thinking outside the envelope!


Mad Dog

Just got back from a gun show where I chatted with old friend Pete T., a dyed-in-the-wool cast-bullet lever gunner. He has been to Africa several times, and taken game up to hippo with very heavy loads and 400-grain-plus hard-cast WFN bullets in his Marlin .444.

GP375,

that logical progression has led us from the 45-70 to the .223 Remington. Which one would you like to hunt Cape Buffalo with?



It was a great hunt, and a very well written article.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
If you aren't a 45-70 on Cape Buffalo fan do NOT read this month's American Rifleman. Mark took a Uberti HiWall 45-70 with a period replica Malcolm-style scope to Africa and killed a Cape Buffalo with it.

Blasphemy to some, but a good hunt and write.

Rich

Rich -

Good stuff. Seeing the kind of penetration folks are getting with those huge, slow hardcast bullets made me a believer in the fact that you can kill anything up to Cape Buffalo with no trouble with those old black powder loads. Sharpsguy went clean through a blue wildebeest (and every other plains game animal he hunted) with a Sharps business rifle in 45-110.

For the record, I think that while many cartridges have been replaced or evolved into something better on paper, it doesn't diminish the usefulness of the original round as it was intended to function. Trying to grossly exceed the limits of the design is one thing, but working insde of design envelope will still get results.

quote:

Originally posted by Luis L.:
For the record, I think that while many cartridges have been replaced or evolved into something better on paper, it doesn't diminish the usefulness of the original round as it was intended to function.

As I am wrong on most points and topics it won't suprise me to be wrong on this one also but wasn't the 45/70 originally intended to function as a post American Civil War standard service round?

Certainly the 45/70 has been used to take many head of big game but I wasn't under the impression that its birth parents created it to take either north american or african game.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Luis L.:
For the record, I think that while many cartridges have been replaced or evolved into something better on paper, it doesn't diminish the usefulness of the original round as it was intended to function.

As I am wrong on most points and topics it won't suprise me to be wrong on this one also but wasn't the 45/70 originally intended to function as a post American Civil War standard service round?

Certainly the 45/70 has been used to take many head of big game but I wasn't under the impression that its birth parents created it to take either north american or african game.

I'm referring to it's operating limits (pressures/velocities) and components (hardcast/BP). Lots of game gets taken with black powder spec and hardcast bullets intended to match the original design spec (well, as best as we know them, given that they didn't have electroic chronies back then). Sure, folks load the 45/70 with jacketed bullets and smokeless powder, too, but the original design will still kill game just as dead as the modernized iteration.

Decent article.
Too bad they didn't detail the Cape Buffalo hunt other than the little side blurb. Maybe American Rifleman is too beholding to their magazine sponsors. Print just enough of a tease so we have to tune in to the BOA television show for the whole story...

Interestingly, no mention at all that none other than W.J. Jeffery sold high walls in India (in 500 express IIRC) for sure and it is possible that they may have sent some to Africa. So, there is an historical connection between the American 1885 and the exotic wilds of the jungle.

IMO, it all comes down to three factors:
Bullet SD, velocity and construction.
If the 45/70 covers these three to an acceptable level, then why not use it for Cape Buffalo?

Huvius,

Winchester did a rather good business in England for Subalterns posting to Africa and India. Ludwig Loewe & Sons in Berlin handled them for the continent trade.

The 1876 Winchester in 50-95 was quite popular for Tigers in India and for Lions, etc in Africa.
HiWalls were good sellers as well.

In fact, if Winchester had not designed the 38-90-217 Express in 1891, we might not have ever had any of the 9,3mm rounds today. Take a look at the 9,3x74R for instance. Neck the 38-90 down .016" and you have the X74R case. I just FL size them to make 38-90 rounds for my Sharps.


Rich

Surely it can be done. Not disputable, and each may spend their money as they see fit. but if I'm going to spend 20k+ on a hunt, and probably have to take my wife with me too, I'm going to damn sure have nice rifles in fine respectable chamberings. And take some really good cigars too.

Red

Dago Red,

no argument there. Your odds against good trophies go way up with, shall we say, ballistically challenged cartridges, but for some the process is more worthwhile than the results.
No need to take cigars, I bought Cubans in SA for a very reasonable price per stick. Cohibas in 3 sizes, etc.

Rich