The only thing I did not say above was that I would not put it on You Tube. But then again...I would not put ANYTHING on You Tube.

If I came across it on Youtube, I wouldn't put it up here. It falls outside the parameters of this forum "African Big Game Hunting".

In fact, the administrator should have moved the whole discussion somewhere else just as soon as it appeared ... maybe "miscellaneous topics" ... or maybe there should be a new forum for subjects that don't belong anywhere on AR ... maybe a "dumb-shit" forum could serve that purpose.

Looks like they allowed the bird to choose his death too. I didn't see anyone throwing doughnuts to bait him. There were no spotlights. They were't chasing him down in the truck either. There was no tree stand, no water hole, no closed cab. Just guys standing in the open back of a truck with seven foot tall cock bird coming to them. The arrow rocked him hard. Wasn't a long shot on a windy day. A very good, killing shot.

Still don't see how this was unethical? Maybe because the bird knew the people weere there?

There is a dividing line somewhere between hunting and killing. I shot a tomcat that was pissing on my front door. But I didn't video it or call it a hunt.

quote:

Looks like they allowed the bird to choose his death too. I didn't see anyone throwing doughnuts to bait him. There were no spotlights. They were't chasing him down in the truck either. There was no tree stand, no water hole, no closed cab. Just guys standing in the open back of a truck with seven foot tall cock bird coming to them. The arrow rocked him hard. Wasn't a long shot on a windy day. A very good, killing shot.

Still don't see how this was unethical? Maybe because the bird knew the people weere there?

~Ann

A touch corny, but a good post Ann.

Not my personal cup of tea. My personal hunting ethics for myself and I have instilled in my wife - anytime you take life we always, always have an obligation to attempt to do so as quickly as possible under the circumstances and our abilities. Well...almost....

Only exception is a terrorist....those MFr's deserve the most heinous death that can be provided.

quote:

I shot a tomcat that was pissing on my front door.

Cats are a great adversary. Especially those that have seen some action. The old warrior type with one eye, a scruffy coat and a huge set of nuts.

quote:

Not my personal cup of tea. My personal hunting ethics for myself and I have instilled in my wife - anytime you take life we always, always have an obligation to attempt to do so as quickly as possible under the circumstances and our abilities.

So, no bowhunting for you?

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Not my personal cup of tea. My personal hunting ethics for myself and I have instilled in my wife - anytime you take life we always, always have an obligation to attempt to do so as quickly as possible under the circumstances and our abilities.

So, no bowhunting for you?

Didn't mean to infer that. Bow hunted a bit in my teens. My quoted conclusion above was based solely on the info shown and heard in the video.

As others have opined - was it a "PAC" animal that needed to be put down - if so, my personal choice would have been either a small caliber rifle or shotgun to the head to try to provide the quickest death possible. Was it a "pet" that some kids just decide to kill on a whim etc.

Without knowing for certain the background and circumstances and based ONLY on what I saw and heard in the video and what the OP asked...I personally would not have done what was contained within the video.

quote:

Cats are a great adversary. Especially those that have seen some action. The old warrior type with one eye, a scruffy coat and a huge set of nuts.

See the leopard in my signature? He is just this, really was one eye'd too!

When I was kid...on Sundays in the summer time when we had young chickens...my Granny used to send me out to catch a couple of young roosters for frying. We had great fun catching them (with a long hooked heavy gauge wire as they were free ranging and we would do a drive and ambush), wringing their necks, and then enjoying them for Sunday dinner.

Don't see much difference.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Another ostrich hunt

Nice shot Saeed!

But, others would claim your shot was not ethical either because the ostrich was running when you took it!!!

We argue about what is ethical and what is not.

At the same time we heartily say well done to someone who has just shot a leopard. Knowing full well that all he had to do is sit in a blind and fires his shot.

I have done it myself many times.

It is all part of hunting, and if you really don't like it, don't do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We argue about what is ethical and what is not.

At the same time we heartily say well done to someone who has just shot a leopard. Knowing full well that all he had to do is sit in a blind and fires his shot.

I have done it myself many times.

It is all part of hunting, and if you really don't like it, don't do it.

I agree with you 100%!!!

Saeed, I disagree, as I think, for a whole host of reasons, that you are comparing spotted apples with canned oranges.

But I see behind your words Christ's powerful admonition: "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

I am okay with that, but only to a point. One must remember that Christ himself cleared the temple of the money-changers, did he not?

That's the context, and that's where the hard choices must be made.

Without knowing the details it would be hard to say if I would of shot the bird out of the truck with my bow. It appears there is a Ph giving the orders so to speak. If you have been around an ostrich, these birds can be extremely aggressive and will defend what land they think is theirs. I have had a friend and his Ph attacked by one before and with their claw on their foot they make nasty wounds and will kick the living crap out of you and shred you as well. This one wasn't living in a Zoo!!! They can take hunks of meat out of you with their beak as well. Would I go out and just shoot one out of a truck,, not likely,, unless it was one that was creating problems, heck I had a goose as a kid you couldn't get in the pen with,, my Dad thought it was funny till he had to fix the water in the pen,,,end of goose very shortly.. Once again we are making a judgement on someone with very little info or history. I have more experience with emmus and have taken to the safety of my truck cab several times to avoid their bad temperment.

This is to me one of those whatever floats your boat scenarios. I don't bow hunt, probably never will, so no I wouldn't do this. That said, I see no difference, just as others have stated, between this and sitting in a blind, sitting in a tree stand etc., in fact at least here there is no camouflage, the bird has a better chance of seeing them and fleeing than the deer do when a guy is sitting in a blind in the middle of the well kept deer food field picking his trophy. And better than a tree stand up out of the way.

I don't understand what the issue is, is it because the truck is mobile, so instead of sitting there for hours waiting he just drove up stopped and shot (which would be an assumption) so he didn't earn it? Would it matter if he stood in that truck for 4 hours while he called the ostrich in? There is no logical reason why this is any worse than any of a multitude of allowed and endorsed hunting methods. baiting bears, calling elk during rut, calling in coyotes, dogs pursuing bears or pigs.

Mike you're getting preachy, as even you I think jokingly allude to. You obviously have your own beliefs involved here and are really getting your dander up that others believe differently, a large pitfall of religion and maybe why it sounds so preachy to me. I too have lots of personal opinions/beliefs if you will regarding hunting, all the way from guys hunting those little tiny cat sized deer to crazy guys that go to tops of mountains for goats (now that is some impressive hunting)

in the end, he took the game as cleanly and quickly as can be expected with a bow. I have no issues with it.

Red

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
Mike you're getting preachy, as even you I think jokingly allude to. You obviously have your own beliefs involved here and are really getting your dander up that others believe differently, a large pitfall of religion and maybe why it sounds so preachy to me.
Red

Red, I don't mean to be preachy, but I guess I am getting there by and by.

Making judgments should not scare us, as long as we are not imposing prison terms and death penalties.

Driving up to an ostrich that obviously has no fear of a truck and plunking it with an arrow is not hunting.

I have killed many an animal, some while engaged in an honest and real hunt and others under other circumstances - including problem animal hunting, which is generally an endeavor that is like hunting in many ways but is not hunting.

Was this a problem ostrich? You tell me, because the poster didn't and if it was he surely should have.

My points here are simple ones:

Don't post something like this without any context, yet while implying it was hunting - as in I "took" an ostrich with my bow.

Another way to put it is that I believe one should not call something hunting if it isn't.

Especially when we must fight to keep what we value against many who would use something like this against us.

My other point is that the "if it's legal, it's okay" crowd are worse than the ostriches when it comes to burying their heads in the sand.

By their logic their own daughters could become prostitutes in Nevada and all would be well with the world.

Don't like to be so blunt but there it is.

Hunters in the modern era have to recognize and adhere to common values and traditions, or our sport, and today it is a sport, is doomed.

Now I will climb down from my pulpit and fully and finally quit the debate, as more than this I cannot say.

If firing from a vehicle permits a clearer more accurate shot, resulting in a more clean/rapid kill, then it has ethical merit.

quote:

Originally posted by drwes:
Without knowing the details it would be hard to say if I would of shot the bird out of the truck with my bow. It appears there is a Ph giving the orders so to speak. If you have been around an ostrich, these birds can be extremely aggressive and will defend what land they think is theirs. I have had a friend and his Ph attacked by one before and with their claw on their foot they make nasty wounds and will kick the living crap out of you and shred you as well..... Once again we are making a judgement on someone with very little info or history. I have more experience with emmus and have taken to the safety of my truck cab several times to avoid their bad temperment.

Big Birds like Emu, Cassowary and Ostrich can disembowel humans,dogs and horses quite easily.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
But I don't have a church, so rest easy that you'll hear no more, at least on this thread, from yours truly, a/k/a the voice in the wilderness.

Mike

3 posts later...

quote:

Now I will climb down from my pulpit and fully and finally quit the debate, as more than this I cannot say.

Mike

Mike,
I gotta ask, are you either a pastor or an attorney? My apologies if that is too personal.
Brad

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

I have killed many an animal ... including problem animal hunting, which is generally an endeavor that is like hunting in many ways but is not hunting.

There's a big difference between what you would do and what you would seek to prevent others from doing.

I wouldn't do it because it isn't consistent with my own code of ethics and it would bring me neither joy nor satisfaction to do it (unless I was just plain hungry and that Ostrich was all there was!).

If others want to do it for whatever reason and it's legal, then more power to them. I have no issue with it. I don't purport to force others to share my judgment about what is ethical and what isn't.

At some point we reach a point where enough people agree that something is sufficiently "wrong" that we make it illegal to do it. I support laws that prohibit animal cruelty even though there is debate about what constitutes "cruelty." But we have to put some faith in our system that it will make reasonable judgments in these matters. We might not always agree with them, but we trust the system to make them because it's better than any alternative.

If this was a legal hunt (and I suspect it was), then I'm not going to tell the guy he shouldn't have done it, even though it makes me cringe, and even though I agree with everyone who has said that it hurts hunting in general and therefore has an indirect impact on me.

Looks a bit iffy to me.

Ostrich can be challenging and even dangerous . I think I have shot 2 or 3. They are tough . Much more than one would expect .

A few years back, my youngest popped one on the first day of the hunt . He hit it but it took off . I rolled it with my 416. We got up to it and the PH, Peter Thormahlen, grabbed it my the neck as it was still breathing . When he grabbed it, the ostrich went wild. We were laughing our asses off. After it was finished, Peter realized that the Ostrich had kicked him. It cut all the way through his leather boots and his sock right at his Achilles tendon. If he didn't have leather boots on, this thing wOuld have severed his Achilles.

By the way, I have it on video.

For those who have an issue with hunting from a vehicle....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...layer_embedded#at=14 ...and

.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aff1eFbQVHw

...where would you rather be?

LOL!