I have always thought of a solid, as a monolithic, single alloy projectile, yet, I got some Federal Premium rounds that say, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Solid, but by all I can see in the literature, the Bear Claw is NOT a solid, at least as I have always understood them. If the bullet is a bonded bullet, is it basically a "solid"?

Would a 500g .458 TBBC work on elephant?

I shot my buff with two rounds, one went all the way through, the other was recovered from the spine and only showed some deformation and rifling marks. I always thought they were monolithic, but I guess i have been mistaken all this time.

The Sledgehammer is a monolithic solid though, correct?

Trophy Bonded Bear Claw is an expanding bullet, therefore a SOFT. It has a lead core and a copper jacket.

Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer is a non-expanding bullet, therefore a SOLID. It has a lead core and copper jacket, but does not expand.

For elephants, use a SOLID.

Examples:

Woodleigh FMJ-RN solid - lead core, copper jacket with steel liner
GS Custom FN solid - solid copper
North Fork FN solid - solid copper
Barnes banded solid - solid brass
Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer solid - lead core, copper jacket
A-Square solid - brass monolithic

What's the performance difference between solid copper and solid brass?

Mark,

I bought some of the same ammo as it was a great price from Midway I believe. The bullets appear to be modeled after a conventional FMJ and lead core solid similiar to Woodleighs etc. I'm sure they will kill any elephant or buff you run into even if they are not the more modern flat nose monometal solids.

Mark

TN Sledgehammers are the same as Woodeleigh solids, a jacket with a lead core. Both of them can deform. "Solids" are in name only.

The homogeneous "solids" like the North Fork and Barnes are referred to as monolithics and are just made of some material such that the whole bullet is of a homogeneous material, that is no jacket separate from the core, etc.

The brass "solids" like Barnes will be harder than the alloy copper "solids" like the North Fork and tend to deform less but whether there is much difference in their effect in hunting is probably arguable.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanna:
What's the performance difference between solid copper and solid brass?

In use, nothing as the solid copper bullet, ala Barnes, has alloying agents to make them harder. If one of those agents is more than 10% zinc, then rightly it should now be called brass. Barnes bullets, at least, are not pure copper.

Perhaps a solid copper bullet maker will share the guaranteed analysis.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Mark,

I bought some of the same ammo as it was a great price from Midway I believe. The bullets appear to be modeled after a conventional FMJ and lead core solid similiar to Woodleighs etc. I'm sure they will kill any elephant or buff you run into even if they are not the more modern flat nose monometal solids.

Mark

The TBBC is an expanding bullet (not for elephants). The TBSH is a solid (fine for elephant). Mark said he has TBBC.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
The TBBC is an expanding bullet (not for elephants). The TBSH is a solid (fine for elephant). Mark said he has TBBC.

That's what has me confused. the box says TBBC Solid. So, again, I guess I'm just thick skulled, but regardless what bullet we are talking about, if it has a BONDED lead core, is it still a solid or not? The TBBC I have looks like it's bronze. There is no lead tip, and last night I ground the end of one with my bench grinder and I never exposed any lead.

I'll try and post a picture of the bullet and the box tonight when I get home. I also might drop a line to Speer today. I'm confused.

Mark,

Maybe they don't call them Trophy Bonded Sledge Hammers anymore because what you are describing is a Sledge Hammer(Solid). The ammo I referred to is just a round nosed solid. I was confused about what I had bought. DUH!

I used the Sledge Hammer on 2 elephants and 3 buffalo with complete satisfaction. Some have said they have seen failures with the SH but I've been very happy as everything died.

Mark

The original Sledgehammer solids that Jack Carter made were from naval bronze and had a flat tip with an engraved T on them, IIRC. If the newer ones are the same they are most definitely a good solid bullet for use on buffalo and elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by N'gagi:
.... I got some Federal Premium rounds that say, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Solid, but by all I can see in the literature, the Bear Claw is NOT a solid, at least as I have always understood them. ...

Maybe it's just a screw up at the printers that printed the ammo boxes for Federal?

Federal's web site is still showing Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid in their ammo listings.

http://www.federalpremium.com/

-Bob F.

quote:

Originally posted by John S:
The original Sledgehammer solids that Jack Carter made were from naval bronze and had a flat tip with an engraved T on them, IIRC. If the newer ones are the same they are most definitely a good solid bullet for use on buffalo and elephant.

THAT is EXACTLY what these look like. I'm confused that it says TBBC, yet SOLID without the "Sledgehammer" mentioned anywhere.

Must be a screw up on the packaging...unless it's the new way of labeling the boxes.

Believe me, you cannot mistake Sledgehammers for the Bonded Bear Claw softs. In any event, it sounds like misprinting on the box since Trophy Bonded Bear Claws are softs and there is no such thing as Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Solids. There is, however, Trophy Bonded Sledgehammers. So, maybe your misprint is worth something with a collector, who knows?

Spoke to the folks at CCI-Speer. These bullets are #P458T2 Sledgehammer solids, though not designated as such on the box. The "T" on the nose is the key. The TBBC standard have the "T" on the heel.

You never used to work so hard or play games to use the right Speer product.

The problem has nothing to do with the good folks at Speer. In fact they were a big help. There was a transition period when the major manufacturers started to use premium bullets from third parties. These are from that period.

We got it all sorted out and I've got some darned good bullets for my hunt!