It seems PG hunting in RSA is the wipping boy here of late.....throw in PH's and it's about coveed

I took my fist ever trip to the Eastern Cape this past June with my wife.

A combination vacation/25th wedding aniverserary/PG hunt.....loved every second of it btw

Only one day after I posted my hunting report I recieved a PM

In short I was congratulated on a successful trip but was informed that if I ever want to "do it right" I need to "leave the lodge"

First and foremost.....I brought my wife on a 2 week vacation so "the lodge" was nice

Second.....I had fun.....even if I "did it right" or not

Let's talk....shall we?

No "proper" RSA English terms or talk required......I'm more than a bit redneck/hillbilly then most here

Don't mind people.
It'd be like when I hunt behind the house , it would not be hunting?
Important thing is, you had a blast and so did your wife.
Good for you, don't let opinions of others to ruin your fun

I'm glad you enjoyed your safari. That is all that matters. The rest is opinion and therefore almost without exception, completely worthless babble.

For me it's an apple and oranges issue.
I enjoyed SA as my first Safari much more than the Hill Country hunts in Texas, which utilize similar methods, worse food and significantly less interesting wildlife. Plus you don't hear Spanish in SA. The same could be said for any of the tightly controlled ranch hunts for mule deer or elk all across the western US. Heck there are rumors that mule deer and Desert Bighorn can be had at put and take ranches in Mexico. You don't need a fence if water controls animal movements.

You don't read many complaints about the wilderness free hunting that makes up 99% of American hunting, so I think it could be a "rocks and glass houses" problem for many AR herd members.

Don't let the AR Putz Squad tarnish your memories.

Some folks are near-sighted, others are shallow and some can't see the forest for the trees.

If you don't like RSA don't go. As for me I love it, nice folks, good food , lots of Great hunting. Huge properties as large as most WMA (wild life management) areas in my home state of GA, Lots of river bottums and mountains, bushveld and fields. Like most places if you want hard hunting you can have it. However if you want to hunt over bait or out of the truck you can, it is your choice. It is the best deal for the money that I have ever found, in the entire world. Just check prices, for western American hunts , Canadian hunts, and anywhere in Africa. I am not a wealthy man so I am very frugal and every cent counts. I can;t afford Cape Buff, or Lion. So I hunt Plains game lots of plains game. My favorites are baboons and warthogs. I have yet to see a game fence hold either hogs or boons, so the whole fence thing is hogwash to me. At home I still shoot armadillas off the porch. Can't wait to get back to sunny South Africa.

quote:

If you don't like RSA don't go.

That says it. And just because it isn't someone else's cup of tea don't hesitate to go.
My first African animal was a cape buffalo in RSA in a concession that borders Krueger. They tell me that there are no fences between that concession and Krueger but I really wouldn't know because I never saw any fences. BTW my wife enjoyed the granite showers and the great food.
You just need ask questions and know your outfitter. Oh wait, you should do that wherever you hunt.

Not my point at all

To me it seems the RSA hunts are just a role of the eye here for the much more experienced

I was more than happy with every aspect of this hunt.....even when the PH and all the staff "pretended" to like my wife and I

Ted I agree with you. I took my wife on a Safari to RSA and it was first class for her sake. Now she wants to do it again..Hope your wife enjoyed it as much as mine..

She loved the trip and the people

So much so she is counting down the years/months/days until our next trip

I just might become the observer the next trip and run the camera as she hunts

I also might add.....I will be using the same outfit for trip #2

Sheesh. my personal humble opinion is this. Any time you to can get to Africa with a gun in hand you "done good". Anytime you can make it to Africa AND make the minister of the interior happy you are a genius and any one who opines otherwise should be put on immediate permanent intergalactic ignore!

quote:

Sheesh. my personal humble opinion is this. Any time you to can get to Africa with a gun in hand you "done good". Anytime you can make it to Africa AND make the minister of the interior happy you are a genius and any one who opines otherwise should be put on immediate permanent intergalactic ignore!

Don't know about intergalstic ignore, but I certainly agree with everything else.
I hope someday to hunt with the Rudman family at Blaauwkrantz Safaris in the eastern cape.
When someone else starts paying for my safaris I'll listen to them, until then, I'll do whatever the wife lets me.

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:

quote:

Sheesh. my personal humble opinion is this. Any time you to can get to Africa with a gun in hand you "done good". Anytime you can make it to Africa AND make the minister of the interior happy you are a genius and any one who opines otherwise should be put on immediate permanent intergalactic ignore!

Don't know about intergalstic ignore, but I
certainly agree with everything else.
I hope someday to hunt with the Rudman family at Blaauwkrantz Safaris in the eastern cape.
When someone else starts paying for my safaris I'll listen to them, until then, I'll do whatever the wife lets me.

Cecil: Rebecca and I returned a couple of weeks ago from our 9th hunt at Blaauwkrantz with the Rudman family, they run a classy operation and I sure do like to hunt Kudu. We will be going back again Cecil, why don't you go with us?

Ted: Let 'em roll their eyes and look down their nose at you...hunting in SA beats the hell out of hunting anywhere I've hunted in the US...and we followed that hunt with a buffalo hunt with CMS and had fun there too.

Karl

Nothing wrong with RSA!

quote:

To me it seems the RSA hunts are just a role of the eye here for the much more experienced

Ted, there is a very well known term for what you are describing, Elitism!

You know how it works.

"Yes, you have done ____________, but you have not REALLY done ______________, until you have done it this way/in this place or with this equipment ad infinitum.

From your report, sounds like you and your wife had a great time, and evidently you did since you are planning another trip.

You and your wife's happiness and satisfaction with the experience is all that matters.

It is the Elitists that believe that only THEIR way of doing or experiencing anything that cause the problems.

Congratulations again on your trophies and on an experience you and your wife enjoyed together.

My 11 year old truck, holey hunting cloths and a rusty work horse rifle are a reflection of sorts that I am far from a "Jones"

Thanks Craze....I hope to one day make time to drive down to your place for hogs and javalina

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
It seems PG hunting in RSA is the wipping boy here of late.....throw in PH's and it's about coveed

I took my fist ever trip to the Eastern Cape this past June with my wife.

A combination vacation/25th wedding aniverserary/PG hunt.....loved every second of it btw

Only one day after I posted my hunting report I recieved a PM

In short I was congratulated on a successful trip but was informed that if I ever want to "do it right" I need to "leave the lodge"

First and foremost.....I brought my wife on a 2 week vacation so "the lodge" was nice

Second.....I had fun.....even if I "did it right" or not

Let's talk....shall we?

No "proper" RSA English terms or talk required......I'm more than a bit redneck/hillbilly then most here

Ted,

Don't listen to anyone.

As long as YOU wanted to hunt that way and YOU and YOUR family have enjoyed it, that is all that matters.

I have hunted twice in South Africa, with many friends, and had an absolutely GREAT time.

May be we should tell those who seem obsessed with "the more difficult, the better" the hunt that they should leave their rifles, pistols or bows at home.

And go kill their animals with a rock, while wearing no clothes!

If they aren't financing your next trip -- what does opinion matter? Always somebody with different resources than yourself. Enjoy! (Lots of us just look at the pictures anyhow.)

Meh...If you had fun who really cares. We've done Namibia twice and RSA once in the past few years and will likely do RSA again next year. It's my money.....I'll spend it how I like. We did the 5-star lodge thing last year...it was nice. If you aren't making it out of the lodge in Africa after 25 years of marriage....I'd say you are doing something right!

Just wondering, did the person who PM'd you have a vested interest in you "doing it right next time"? Specifically was it an outfitter or booking agent?

Not thinking of anyone in particular, just wondering if it was the beginning of a sales pitch.

I'm not really that experienced with Africa. However, I have been twice and returned from my second trip a few months. I took my father, friend, wife and 3 sons. It was a memorable 17 day trip and one that my family will always remember.

By the time we landed in Atlanta, after returning, a friend was already criticizing our pics and saying they were "canned" substandard animals. Even better, he was posting this garbage on Facebook!

This crap came from a guy who's probably hunted Africa 15+ times. And, to be honest, I couldn't care less
about his opinion.

We get the same types of criticism here in the states. Fly fishing is better than bait fishing, archery is better than rifle hunting etc. I have been fortunate enough to enjoy all different types of hunting and fishing. I've enjoyed most, if not all of it. I longer worry much about the trophy size; it's more about the experience!

Tents, lodge, high fenced, free range, RSA, Zimbabwe, Deer, Elk, Kudu, Eland. It is all good!

Cable68

Yes and no

I had 2 PM's

The one that told me congrats but next time "do it right" is not an outfitter to my knowledge....just a member here that has spent far more time in Africa then I ever will

The other didn't use sarcasm but did offer a hunt with no fences and is an outfitter

Like I said in the title......it is what it is

I doubt my wife would travel 20k+ miles to sleep in a tent for 2 weeks.....as a mater of fact I know she wouldn't

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I doubt my wife would travel 20k+ miles to sleep in a tent for 2 weeks.....as a mater of fact I know she wouldn't

Mr Ted, I DID make that rather large mistake - brought my wife PLUS her sister, both very good sports, to Namibia. Had a slightly eventful ride from the bush strip to the camp - stopped to track an elephant on the way, neglected the care and feeding of the ladies.....

Arrived at tent camp in the Caprivi - girls say " oh how nice - who are we picking up here?"

PH - " no one, this is home for this hunt - let me show you your tent!!!"

Girls - in chorus " Houston, we have a problem, Mikee - you suckered us!!!"

Thankfully the wonderful lunch, and couple bottles of white wine, settled things somewhat....

Hey - did you have fun and not break any laws that could get you thrown in jail? Then yes, it was a GREAT hunt!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:


By the time we landed in Atlanta, after returning, a friend was already criticizing our pics and saying they were "canned" substandard animals. Even better, he was posting this garbage on Facebook!


It is all good!

Wow I thought I was the king of picking idiot friends. I bow to the one true king.

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:

quote:

Sheesh. my personal humble opinion is this. Any time you to can get to Africa with a gun in hand you "done good". Anytime you can make it to Africa AND make the minister of the interior happy you are a genius and any one who opines otherwise should be put on immediate permanent intergalactic ignore!

Don't know about intergalstic ignore, but I certainly agree with everything else.
I hope someday to hunt with the Rudman family at Blaauwkrantz Safaris in the eastern cape.
When someone else starts paying for my safaris I'll listen to them, until then, I'll do whatever the wife lets me.

Great people the Rudmans. I'm planning on hunting with them again in the future.

Ted, if the bloke who PM'd you did the same to me, he would get told to go "root his boot"

If you and the missus enjoyed yourselves, who cares what other people think.

There are always elitist factions or people in any group, such as here on ARPF......if you let them get under your skin, then they have won.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:


By the time we landed in Atlanta, after returning, a friend was already criticizing our pics and saying they were "canned" substandard animals. Even better, he was posting this garbage on Facebook!


It is all good!

Wow I thought I was the king of picking idiot friends. I bow to the one true king.

Ha ha.... Well, to be honest, hunted with him a couple of times.before, seemed like a decent guy. Have not spoke to him in a long time.

No hard feelings. Surely a lot of other, more important things to worry about...

The African hunting community is overrun with a population of egomaniacal chest thumpers intent on compensating for their own perceived shortcomings by running down the experiences of others. I often wonder why such people hunt, surely it's not for the satisfaction of the chase but rather must be for the ego boost.

Ignore them, Ted. The experience is yours and yours alone (and your wife's, of course) and f**k all what some of the experts here have to say about it. Anyone who journeys to the other side of the planet to hunt has ascended to the pinnacle of the sport anyway and quibbling about lodges and such is just foolish.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

May be we should tell those who seem obsessed with "the more difficult, the better" the hunt that they should leave their rifles, pistols or bows at home.

The irony is, that when it gets way too difficult to handle by novice clients who purposely pursue difficult hunting,
the PH then steps in and does the hard core trophy [or life] saving task....that is, if the reckless & inept recreational hunter doesn't shoot his PH before then.

quote:

Originally posted by SquirrelNut:
The African hunting community is overrun with a population of egomaniacal chest thumpers intent on compensating for their own perceived shortcomings by running down the experiences of others.

Ive noticed on AR that if one prefers to read and learn from accounts from the extensive hunting experiences of people like WDMBell and Harry Selby who have thousands of African animals under each their belt,
- over the recreational hunters on AR who have maybe a buff and ele to their name, they can get all jealous and upset because they don't receive all the recognition on AR that their fragile egos desperately crave.
To be honest, we have seen videos of DG hunts in Africa, where cashed up mature aged men live out some sort of dream to hunt DG with a big bore, but we actually see some of them behave like goofball little children
who constantly need reassurance and prompting from their PH....then on return from their trip, want to share with AR their grand knowledge & expertise on DG.

Then you have people who set up and shoot motionless non lethal paper tigers targets,.. to show their shooting prowess and how must faster a SxS is compared to a bolt Rifle,
problem is, its not necessarily reflective of how a novice hunter might realistically operate their rifle when under the pressure of a real life hunt or life threatening charge.

I've got a very short, limited African hunting background. I've hunted S.Africa 3 times, Moz once and Zim 3 times. My wife accompanied me to SA but will not go to a bush camp. For me, the bush camps are what I enjoy. HOWEVER! I had better accomodations and more fun in SA because my better half was there also. I've hunted on concessions as small as 500 acres, there were 3 giraffes there and I never saw one. As big as 50,000 acres, I still had fun.
Do as you like. Don't worry about what others think or say. It's your hunt and you will make memories there just like you would somewhere else.

One of my hardest hunts was on a small, low fenced, property after gemsbok. We went up and down ravines to collect it after two hard days of hunting. Yes, South Africa.

Don't you guys know anything?

-you don't want to stay at a fancy lodge
-you don't hunt behind any kind of fence
-you never, ever, even think about shooting off the truck
-you never hunt over water, even if you are bowhunting
-you must walk miles, and miles, and miles

... oh, and you must do it with a double.
Of course, if you are a lowly bolt trash guy, it had better be at least be a quality contolled round feed gun

guys that have not hunted south Africa

guys that have only hunted with one ph in one camp maybe even 10 times

guys that know its control round feed or go home

guys that have never been to Africa but are planning to go and are in on the local oil

this is the type of fellow you need to attend to when you are looking for acceptance in to the Africa club cause these guys know their shit

I don't quite understand why anyone else cares where anyone else hunts or how they do it. A PG hunt in the Eastern Cape is a very different hunt than a Bongo hunt in Cameroon, which is different from a full bag hunt in Tanzania, which is different from a Moutain Nyala hunt in Ethiopia.

A person hunts in a particular place for particular game and in a particular way for different reasons. If I were looking for an enjoyable week or two with my wife in a place where I could hunt, I wouldn't take her to the CAR. Frankly, my wife wouldn't be happy in a tent in the Zambezi Valley. But a lodge in Namibia or South Africa? She'd be (and has been) more than happy, and so would (and have) I. I love the rough and difficult hunts too - they're just different experiences, that's all.

You would think people in this particular avocation would be a little more mature than to send private messages to a stranger criticizing how, where or what he hunts. Personally, I would "delete" and move on. . . .

quote:

Originally posted by BuffNut:
I don't quite understand why anyone else cares where anyone else hunts or how they do it. A PG hunt in the Eastern Cape is a very different hunt than a Bongo hunt in Cameroon, which is different from a full bag hunt in Tanzania, which is different from a Moutain Nyala hunt in Ethiopia.

A person hunts in a particular place for particular game and in a particular way for different reasons. If I were looking for an enjoyable week or two with my wife in a place where I could hunt, I wouldn't take her to the CAR. Frankly, my wife wouldn't be happy in a tent in the Zambezi Valley. But a lodge in Namibia or South Africa? She'd be (and has been) more than happy, and so would (and have) I. I love the rough and difficult hunts too - they're just different experiences, that's all.

You would think people in this particular avocation would be a little more mature than to send private messages to a stranger criticizing how, where or what he hunts. Personally, I would "delete" and move on. . . .

very well said

Ted,

Your quote - 'It seems PG hunting in RSA is the whipping boy here of late' is a reference to what?

Some examples would be beneficial.

What about the canned Lion "hunts"?

Don't know what Ted is referencing with his remarks, but from what I have observed on AR during my time on here is that many "Hunters" view hunting in RSA in a similar manner that many "hunters" view hunting in Texas.

In my opinion it all leads back to elitist attitudes towards hunting.

For many folks any "Hunting" inside a fence, no matter the size of the property inside that fence, is not hunting and people partaking of such activities should not refer to themselves as hunters.

On the flip side of that are the places in Texas and most likely RSA that do cut corners and conduct hunts for "wild" animals that are as "wild" as a pet dog.

Just an opinion on my part, nothing more.

It is your hunt. If it was legal and you liked, who cares what these other people think. Ignore them.

I have a hard time respecting anyone who would make such comments to you.

I have been on more than my fair share of international hunts. If I went on nothing but warthog hunts for the rest of my life, I would be fine with it. While some may not feel the same, it is none of their f'ing business.

I have friends who view international hunting a lot differently then I do. They want to hunt as many different species in as many different countries as possible. I , on the other hand, have told them that I basically want to hunt buffalo and elephant. I like it. I am happy with it. While we differ, we don't try to change each others views. We certainly don't criticize each other.

Ignore these people.

Ted,

First off the most important point is that you had fun. I've done two long safaris in RSA myself and thoroughly enjoyed them. As well as the common game that is available pretty much across the country RSA has a number of unique and indigenous species like the Vaal rhebok, Cape grysbok, Cape bushbuck, Cape kudu etc. plus all the color phase animals that collectors love. Having said that though there are SO many different, varied and equally wonderful experiences to be had throughout southern Africa I think I might at least look at some other options for a return trip. I realize getting a good value for the dollar is import and it is to most of us so it would make sense to return to where you had fun and rec'd a good value. The thing is there are loads of these outfits all over Southern Africa that I think you'd be very happy with and you'd have perhaps a quite different experience plus maybe even more fun.

As for your wife probably not enjoying something else other than a lodge experience even some of the dangerous game areas offer very comfortable permanent camps with private chalets. What a lot of folks new to safari do not realize is that if creepy crawlies, bugs and snakes are an issue your far better off in a proper safari tent that you can zip up tight. I've never yet to stay in a chalet or rondavel that did not have a crack under the door or around the windows that let all manner of pests come and go. And those thatch ceilings can hold all kinds of vermin including toads, rats and bats.

So maybe folks aren't so much crapping on a RSA safari as saying that there is a whole cornucopia of other wonderful experiences to be had without stretching your budget too much further.

Mark

As long as you know:

1. What you are buying.

2. The type of hunting experience you will be encountering. (Game quality, game abundance, environmental and land type, number of permits available/existing, fence, no fence, concession, camp conditions, and support equipment conditions, food, security, etc)

3. Nothing is being hidden from you. (Hunting areas, hidden fees, lack of permits, last minute changes)

4. How deficiencies and screw-ups are addressed.

Then go hunt and have a great time.

Unfortunately, many clients (even more experienced one) assume that they know everything and don’t bother to ask the difficult questions. Then the surprises ensue...

quote:

And go kill their animals with a rock, while wearing no clothes!

A great idea for Walter on your upcoming trip.

I've done the Zambezi Valley, Chirisa and three South African Hunts. One at a lodge in the East cape, two in a Safari camp in the Limpopo in the bush........ All where outstanding....

Personally, I really liked the South African hunts best........

The camps in the valley where just outstanding!

The wife has gone and had a ball on all of them!

.