quote:

These elephant are a BLOODY MESS!!!


Well done...

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Just wait for Dirk to buy a 577 or 600 and then it will be the new messiah.

I'm workin on one now, the 500 is lonely it needs a big brother-big bore messiah cousin. Actually Bill it's because my 500 is too light, I need a heavier rifle to carry around.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Just wait for Dirk to buy a 577 or 600 and then it will be the new messiah.

I'm workin on one now, the 500 is lonely it needs a big brother-big bore messiah cousin. Actually Bill it's because my 500 is too light, I need a heavier rifle to carry around.

When you move up to the 600 or tire of the 500, I'll take the 500 and just file off the cheekpiece!

Or, wait for Roscoe's book so he can tell you what's what.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
When you move up to the 600 or tire of the 500, I'll take the 500 and just file off the cheekpiece!

Bill, the 500 is not leaving home so you can put the file away. I wouldn't own a 600 but a 577 around 13lbs is very tempting, two stopping calibers are better than one.

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Given the way the question was asked, I agree with Dirk.

Just wait for Dirk to buy a 577 or 600 and then it will be the new messiah.

Or wait until we shoot 10 elephant, write a book about it, and become an expert

Come on Roscoe, that's a little harsh!

Historically the 577 and the 600 N.E.s have had penetration problems, maybe the loads, the velocity whatever and the .470 has a impeccable reputation..Who knows, but I am sure Craig B only reported what he observed..

I have no clue as the only 500 I have used is the 500 Jefferys and the 505 Gibbs, my biggest double to date used on game is the .470. More recoil than that is not to my liking.

I tend to think that, for me at least, and maybe for most who can handle it, a .500 launching 570-600 grain bullets at 2,100-2,500 fps is the optimal thick skinned DG caliber. Whether in a double or a bolt rifle.

Beyond .500 caliber, the returns diminish rapidly, or even fall off, and the price in rifle weight and recoil goes way up.

a 650 gra 577 bullet at 1900 f/s is a shitty ele load without doubt. Only a very unexperienced or an idiot would use that..
A 750 grainer at original 2050 is good enough and an ok penetrator.
But at 2300 -2500f/s it goes into a totally different class. Especially with a 800 grs FN Solid.
And Dan - of course your 585 penetrated less than your 500NE because you used roundnose solids in the 585 and FN solids in the 500. Like comparing apples to bananas.. If you had used 750 grs or 800 grs FN`s in your 585, I am sure you would have acheived much better penetration - dont you agree?

quote:

To use that example as an indictment of the .577 as an elephant killer is more than a little disengenous. Replace the 500 grain bullet in a 450 caliber with a 400 grain bullet and slow it down to 1800 fps, and you'll have some "surprises" there as well.

Just my words..

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Beyond .500 caliber, the returns diminish rapidly, or even fall off, and the price in rifle weight and recoil goes way up.

Ditto's MR

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I am still a big believer in Taylor's KOV.

It is a pitty.

Cause it is bullsh...


THe 500, 577 and 600 N.E. are poor penetrators and when taylor would be right, it would be enough to take an heavy hammer to knock out an elephant...

Sometimes it is better to be silent and thought to be a fool than to open your mouth and confirm it . . .

I can't believe how dumb Jimmy Sutherland was to hunt elephants for over 30 years with a 577 that had insufficient penetration.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I can't believe how dumb Jimmy Sutherland was to hunt elephants for over 30 years with a 577 that had insufficient penetration.

465H&H

You got that right mate, him and legions of others. I can't believe how stupid they were, ie. all making the same mistake. Maybe eles were anatomically different back then and have since adopted Darwinian theory and developed tougher heads.

agree with you guys..

a 750 solid at 2050 f/s will do the job reliably with frontal shots. But a 650 grs at 1800-1900 f/s is the same as a 400 gsRS .458 at same velocity - NOT AN ELE LOAD AT ALL!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Safarischorsch:
THe 500, 577 and 600 N.E. are poor penetrators and when taylor would be right, it would be enough to take an heavy hammer to knock out an elephant...

are you on heavy medication ?

with the best well wishes

peter

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
I tend to think that, for me at least, and maybe for most who can handle it, a .500 launching 570-600 grain bullets at 2,100-2,500 fps is the optimal thick skinned DG caliber. Whether in a double or a bolt rifle.

Beyond .500 caliber, the returns diminish rapidly, or even fall off, and the price in rifle weight and recoil goes way up.

mrlexma, I, in no way, think that a 577NE is not enough gun for elephant, or anything else that walks, crawls, or flies, because history has shown that it is! Ihave owned two 577NE double rifles, and my objection to this chambering is, it's necessary weight, and it's substancial recoil. The damn things are too heavy to carry all day in rough country, and heat, and the recoil absolutely makes shooting it in many hunting positions, and test of tendant, and bone strength. I got rid of mine because it was simply unpleasent to carry, and shoot, not because it had any deficite in effectiveness! My favorite what I call a "BIG BORE" is a 500NE double, and IMO, nothing bigger is needed to hunt anything on this planet!

Of course you know what they say about opinions!